Interesting analysis of table minimums and rules. Includes a chart
The home page of the WOV site has a link to everything you need to know about Las Vegas blackjack and is updated.
I just returned from four nights at the Venetian.
I hit every casino from Encore to NYNY.
With the exception of the $50 min games, it was 6-5, H17 everywhere I went.
I didn't see S17 anywhere. Even at the $50 table minimum.
One or two places had a single 3-2, H17 table with a $10 min., just so they can claim to have 3-2 Blackjack.
Quote: TankoIgnore that article.
I just returned from four nights at the Venetian.
I hit every casino from Encore to NYNY.
With the exception of the $50 min games, it was 6-5, H17 everywhere I went.
I didn't see S17 anywhere. Even at the $50 table minimum.
One or two places had a single 3-2, H17 table with a $10 min., just so they can claim to have 3-2 Blackjack.
The Venetian/Palazzo just switched to having only 6-5 blackjack outside of the high limit room within this last month. Almost everywhere else BJ pays 3:2 outside of the party pit/single deck.
Quote: TankoIgnore that article.
I just returned from four nights at the Venetian.
I hit every casino from Encore to NYNY.
With the exception of the $50 min games, it was 6-5, H17 everywhere I went.
I didn't see S17 anywhere. Even at the $50 table minimum.
One or two places had a single 3-2, H17 table with a $10 min., just so they can claim to have 3-2 Blackjack.
There is plenty of 3:2 S17 along that route. I don't think you looked hard enough.
Quote: geoffThe Venetian/Palazzo just switched to having only 6-5 blackjack outside of the high limit room within this last month. Almost everywhere else BJ pays 3:2 outside of the party pit/single deck.
Those two switched sometime in March. Others quickly followed.
I was there April 16-19.
Visit the Strip and see for yourself. All 6:5 H17 below $50 min everywhere from Encore to NYNY and likely everywhere else.
$50 min tables that I saw were all H17.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThere is plenty of 3:2 S17 along that route. I don't think you looked hard enough.
When did you last visit the Strip?
Just a handful of 3:2 tables along the strip for leaders. No S17.
Sucker Bet City.
Very recently. I am in Vegas a lot and rarely leave the strip.Quote: TankoWhen did you last visit the Strip?
Quote:Just a handful of 3:2 tables along the strip for leaders. No S17.
Did you check NYNY's high limit room? Did you check Aria? Did you check MGM Grand's high limit room? Or their "S17 pit"? Or Whiskey Down (their "high limit bar"?) Did you check Mandalay Bay's high limit room? (Not part of your route, but still on the strip).
Like I said, there is tons of S17. This is not a complete list.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceVery recently. I am in Vegas a lot and rarely leave the strip.
Did you check NYNY's high limit room? Did you check Aria? Did you check MGM Grand's high limit room? Or their "S17 pit"? Or Whiskey Down (their "high limit bar"?) Did you check Mandalay Bay's high limit room? (Not part of your route, but still on the strip).
Like I said, there is tons of S17. This is not a complete list.
Wasn't referring to High Limit.
$10-$25 was all 6:5, H17, with a single 3:2 table at a few.
$50 min was 3:2, H17
The Wizard's Blackjack Survey is dated March 18.
These changes occurred after that.
Quote: Tanko$50 min was 3:2, H17
There is plenty of $50 S17 available on the strip. All the locations that I mentioned have $50 games (except for Mandalay Bay -- I have not been there much but I don't think I've seen it for under $100). There is some (not much) available at $25, too.
It is not hard to find 6D 3:2 S17 DoA DAS Surr offered at $50. It's available at many MGM properties on the strip. They also have a good double deck game (same rules except for surrender) but that is usually at least a $100 minimum, although I have seen it for $50.
But of course there are plenty of games with bad rules too, often in the same casino, often at the same limits. If you see one $50 H17 game and assume that they are all H17, you are going to be mistaken a lot of the time.
The problem here is that you saw some tables, and assumed that all the other tables were the same. They are not.
Quote: TankoIgnore that article.
I just returned from four nights at the Venetian.
I hit every casino from Encore to NYNY.
With the exception of the $50 min games, it was 6-5, H17 everywhere I went.
I didn't see S17 anywhere. Even at the $50 table minimum.
One or two places had a single 3-2, H17 table with a $10 min., just so they can claim to have 3-2 Blackjack.
lol this is just plain wrong. Sure, most casinos have plenty of 6-5 tables, but only a couple have ONLY 6-5 tables for low limits.
NYNY, for example, is one of the worst offenders of offering mostly 6-5 blackjack. However, they still keep two low limit 3-2 tables open all day long for those of us who aren't idiots and refuse to play 6-5.
Monte Carlo has plenty of 8 deck $10 3-2 games open all day long. They also have plenty of 6-5 tables as well. You just have to read the felt.
Aria has zero 6-5 tables.
Bellagio has zero 6-5 tables.
MGM Grand, Aria, and Bellagio all offer $25 six-deck S17 tables during slow periods.
Hell, I've even played $10 S17 games at both MGM Grand and Bellagio in the last year. (This is not normal, I am aware).
Quote: ams288lol this is just plain wrong. Sure, most casinos have plenty of 6-5 tables, but only a couple have ONLY 6-5 tables for low limits.
Mostly 6:5 low limit and a single 3:2 table now.
You weren't there this past week.
When did you last visit the Strip?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe problem here is that you saw some tables, and assumed that all the other tables were the same.
I was there in November, and the rules were fine.
This past week was much different.
Perhaps they changed things for the busy Holiday week.
I doubt it.
Let's wait for the Wizard's next survey.
I expect more casinos will join Venetian and Palazzo and see their no longer legitimate 6 and 8 deck H17 game removed from the list.
Quote: TankoI was there in November, and the rules were fine.
This past week was much different.
Perhaps they changed things for the busy Holiday week.
I doubt it.
Let's wait for the Wizard's next survey.
I expect more casinos will join Venetian and Palazzo and see their no longer legitimate 6 and 8 deck H17 game removed from the list.
I have been there and played within the past couple of weeks. You are wrong about this. I suspect that you were simply looking in the wrong pits.
Quote: TankoMostly 6:5 low limit and a single 3:2 table now.
You weren't there this past week.
When did you last visit the Strip?
March 29-April 1.
I'm willing to bet EVERY casino on the strip hasn't changed that much in the last 20 days. lol
Quote: bobsimsHe overstated but it is true that if you are on the Strip on peak hours it is highly unlikely you will find an under $50 stand 17 game that you can actually sit down and play.
Head on over to the Bellagio. They always have multiple pits of $15 min games even at the busiest of times.
There has literally never been a time when I couldn't find a decent low limit 3-2 H17 game on the strip.
Quote: ams288There has literally never been a time when I couldn't find a decent low limit 3-2 H17 game on the strip.
You still can find 3:2 H17.
Margaritaville for example, has one 3:2 H17 table.
There are others.
The very overwhelming majority of the low lim tables were 6:5 H17 this past week.
It may for the Holiday period, but I suspect not.
No reason to go back to 3:2 when the 6:5 tables are just as busy.
Quote: TankoMargaritaville for example, has one 3:2 H17 table.
There are others.
The very overwhelming majority of the low lim tables were 6:5 H17 this past week.
Specifically, what casinos did you check out?
For 6-8 deck shoe/CSM games (not single or double deck):
Most CET casinos will have mostly 6-5 blackjack with a few 3-2 tables thrown in for good measure. It's been like that for ages. CET isn't really known for having good rules.
Most MGM casinos will have mostly 3-2. Bellagio and Aria are the only two with ALL 3-2. NYNY and The Mirage are the only two that have majority 6-5 tables. Monte Carlo might also have a majority of 6-5 tables, but mainly in pits that only open at the most busiest of times. Their main blackjack pit (directly across from Brand Steakhouse) has no 6-5 (aside from single deck).
Treasure Island has mostly 3-2. As far as I can tell only single deck is 6-5 there.
Wynn/Encore shoe games are all 3-2, low limit single/double deck is 6-5.
Cosmo shoe games are all 3-2, low limit single/double deck is 6-5.
we are not talking about "are there 3-2 games on the Strip" Yes there are.
we are not talking about "are there stand 17 games on the Strip" Yes there are.
What we ARE talking about is Stand 17 (not hit 17) AND 3-2 AND under $50. Tanko may have overstated the case and you may find this game at a couple of places (out of what 40 or so?) but try and find a seat at peak times.
It's like Foxwoods always advertised "$5 blackjack" when they first opened-yeah, one table and all you could do was stand there and look at other people play.
Quote: bobsimsYou're all missing Tanko's point:
we are not talking about "are there 3-2 games on the Strip" Yes there are.
we are not talking about "are there stand 17 games on the Strip" Yes there are.
What we ARE talking about is Stand 17 (not hit 17) AND 3-2 AND under $50. Tanko may have overstated the case and you may find this game at a couple of places (out of what 40 or so?) but try and find a seat at peak times.
It's like Foxwoods always advertised "$5 blackjack" when they first opened-yeah, one table and all you could do was stand there and look at other people play.
I have no idea what he meant. But what he said was:
Quote: TankoI didn't see S17 anywhere. Even at the $50 table minimum.
And, my reply to that is, just because he didn't see them, doesn't mean that they aren't there. They are there, and I have played them recently.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceAnd, my reply to that is, just because he didn't see them, doesn't mean that they aren't there.
I'm sure they are there. I just did not see any.
One of the few places I missed was Bellagio, where they continue to resist 6:5.
I'll stay there on my next visit if they are still 3:2.
