Opinions on this Issue
How obvious were you being with the counting? I haven't seen where you've discussed your style. But, it's hard to be non-obvious with a big spread for example.
Quote: SonuvabishI am playing rated at a casino that I have only been to a few times, but was going to choose it as my new regular shop. A hack counter sits down, and drunkenly tells the pit I am counting. He's a hack because he claims to count in Vegas, and doesn't know basic strategy. I ignore it; he's not talking to me, and I think he might believe I can't hear him. It happens again, and I leave. The pit boss seemed unconcerned and made no phone call immediately following. I thought I felt a little heat later on when it slowed down. There's no way to know if it was real heat, and if it was, whether it was a result of how suspicious I was which led to a hack being able to spot me, or it being due to being reported. Any thoughts on how to handle the situation? Any thoughts as to what is probably going on? My plan is to just play till barred. But if there is a better way to handle it, I'd be happy to know.
Play and don't get barred?
I wouldn't necessarily ignore it. Handle it the way that a ploppie would. Ploppies don't ignore anything.
All these events are more than likely completely unrelated as no floor or pit boss worth their salt would listen to one guy calling another a counter, without the original "hack" drawing heat first.
Don't react until there is reason to. You have already said that you will simply play until barred, so nothing in this situation should change your mind?
Having said the above, I'm sure it was an uncomfortable situation to have to deal with!
I like blue a lot but I'm willing to change if I need to.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSo, what color shirt SHOULD I wear?
I like blue a lot but I'm willing to change if I need to.
The absolute winning shirt is a Tommy Bahama Hawaiian shirt with a wide brim hat, camera around your neck and a large umbrella cocktail in your hands!!!
I was pretty obvious. I don't have a huge spread per se, but the count was choppy that day. So it's going from min to big quick. I'm not using cover, so I just ramp up my bet for no reason. And all tiny bettors, my big bets are monsters compared to theirs--and I'm the youngest person at the table with a bunch of middle-aged people (doesn't help I look 10 years younger than I am). I also wonged in and made an extremely unusual double. I also made another index double that is not all that unusual, which he thought was, which didn't by itself show he was a hack, but sure didn't change my mind.
Quote: TomspurThe absolute winning shirt is a Tommy Bahama Hawaiian shirt with a wide brim hat, camera around your neck and a large umbrella cocktail in your hands!!!
I can't pull that off. You've just described my dad though (except for the camera)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI can't pull that off. You've just described my dad though (except for the camera)
And at least one member of this forum except for the hat:-)
Quote: AxiomOfChoicePlay and don't get barred?
I wouldn't necessarily ignore it. Handle it the way that a ploppie would. Ploppies don't ignore anything.
Are you suggesting I should have got in face? The thought occurred to me. But I was counting. It seemed at first it would be best to say nothing and tolerate the conversation, and hope he leaves the pit out of it. After he told the pit, it seemed like reacting to telling the pit would be more a confirmation than a denial. When he started again, I thought the best thing to do was leave the table so he'd forget about it. I was tempted to murder him, but didn't really feel up to going through the whole stalking process. I am curious as to what anyone thinks the repercussions may be. How does a counter get caught any way? Most floor people and dealers don't care. Do you get caught by eventually happening upon the person who does?
Quote: SonuvabishAre you suggesting I should have got in face? The thought occurred to me. But I was counting. It seemed at first it would be best to say nothing and tolerate the conversation, and hope he leaves the pit out of it. After he told the pit, it seemed like reacting to telling the pit would be more a confirmation than a denial. When he started again, I thought the best thing to do was leave the table so he'd forget about it. I was tempted to murder him, but didn't really feel up to going through the whole stalking process. I am curious as to what anyone thinks the repercussions may be. How does a counter get caught any way? Most floor people and dealers don't care. Do you get caught by eventually happening upon the person who does?
You get caught by a combination of factors. The floors noticing your play and asking Surveillance for a check, after which, if positive, Surveillance will inform the CDM who will then decide if they should bar you, back you off from blackjack or 86 you.
Quote: TomspurYou get caught by a combination of factors. The floors noticing your play and asking Surveillance for a check, after which, if positive, Surveillance will inform the CDM who will then decide if they should bar you, back you off from blackjack or 86 you.
What are the chances this occurrence would result in a check? It was extremely busy, the boss informed maybe thought I'd never be back. It seems to me the floor doesn't have to order a check. What is their incentive?
Quote: SonuvabishWhat are the chances this occurrence would result in a check? It was extremely busy, the boss informed maybe thought I'd never be back. It seems to me the floor doesn't have to order a check. What is their incentive?
In my opinion and leading from my first answer, this situation would not have gotten too much attention from either the floor or the pit boss unless the situation escalated for some reason between the parties. If you and this dude had started shouting at each other or some other confluence of events, then perhaps either the floor or pit boss, on suspicion mostly of your strong reaction would ask surveillance to check in on the matter. If Surveillance had done a spot check on you and then later got a phone call from the pit about a possible fight then perhaps they would go to playback and put one and one together.
The incentive for the floor to request a check is because it is part of his duties. He shouldn't need anymore incentive!
Quote: TomspurIn my opinion and leading from my first answer, this situation would not have gotten too much attention from either the floor or the pit boss unless the situation escalated for some reason between the parties. If you and this dude had started shouting at each other or some other confluence of events, then perhaps either the floor or pit boss, on suspicion mostly of your strong reaction would ask surveillance to check in on the matter. If Surveillance had done a spot check on you and then later got a phone call from the pit about a possible fight then perhaps they would go to playback and put one and one together.
The incentive for the floor to request a check is because it is part of his duties. He shouldn't need anymore incentive!
So, basically there is no incentive.
Well, so Axiom's (I think he was saying this anyway) suggestion was a bad idea, and I acted correctly by not giving in to my anger. I figured if I did say something, he'd start yelling 'counter' like 'fire' or 'rape'.
What's a spot check?
Based on what you are saying, I am wondering if maybe this guy knew more about this type of stuff than I do, and actually did know I could hear him and was trying to goad me into a reaction. I am pretty convinced this guys issue was jealousy, he was an inferior player to me who wanted everyone to know he was good.
Quote: SonuvabishAre you suggesting I should have got in face? The thought occurred to me. But I was counting. It seemed at first it would be best to say nothing and tolerate the conversation, and hope he leaves the pit out of it. After he told the pit, it seemed like reacting to telling the pit would be more a confirmation than a denial. When he started again, I thought the best thing to do was leave the table so he'd forget about it. I was tempted to murder him, but didn't really feel up to going through the whole stalking process. I am curious as to what anyone thinks the repercussions may be. How does a counter get caught any way? Most floor people and dealers don't care. Do you get caught by eventually happening upon the person who does?
Just look visibly annoyed and complain that the guy is accusing you of cheating. Be sure to use the word "cheating". No AP would refer to counting as cheating. They will think that you are PGD.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceJust look visibly annoyed and complain that the guy is accusing you of cheating. Be sure to use the word "cheating". No AP would refer to counting as cheating. They will think that you are PGD.
I agree with Axiom, this should work. As long as you don't overreact in such a way that Surveillance has a reason to check into your play history. Then you may be in trouble.
Spot checks is what Surveillance agents do all day long. They choose a table and or a player and check them for counting, cheating, collusion or other smaller issues.
Quote: SonuvabishBased on what you are saying, I am wondering if maybe this guy knew more about this type of stuff than I do, and actually did know I could hear him and was trying to goad me into a reaction. I am pretty convinced this guys issue was jealousy, he was an inferior player to me who wanted everyone to know he was good.
I'm no pro, but I do dabble in the dark arts (counting). I have spotted others, and I can't imagine they didn't spot me. I have never given nor received a bit of acknowledgement. I frequently leave soon after I recognize the correlation because I feel like us doing the same thing is a red flag. Maybe I'm just paranoid, but seeing someone else who is counting gives me chills. I feel like now if the house detects either one of us they will get us both.
For this reason my guess is he was just a loudmouth ass. Maybe he just likes to blow up others plays, but why not just make plays himself. Maybe he is aggressively defending his turf and he doesn't want anyone else milking the games. To me it seems like the best cover is a low profile, but maybe he has a better act figured out.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceJust look visibly annoyed and complain that the guy is accusing you of cheating. Be sure to use the word "cheating". No AP would refer to counting as cheating. They will think that you are PGD.
That's not going to convince him if he's not guessing. It would lead to an escalation. I mean, what kind of rat f--- tells the pit? I can spot a counter in one hand, if its the right hand--I'm sure he knew. Even if it were a ploppy, I'm not so sure being this disingenuous would come off as genuine. Because a ploppy who could spot it would understand it isn't cheating, and wouldn't be accusing you of cheating, so you couldn't really twist it that way.
Quote: TomspurI agree with Axiom, this should work. As long as you don't overreact in such a way that Surveillance has a reason to check into your play history. Then you may be in trouble.
Spot checks is what Surveillance agents do all day long. They choose a table and or a player and check them for counting, cheating, collusion or other smaller issues.
Actually, this reminds me. There was another GWAE link I wanted you to listen to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXd8U9giWI
You can skip ahead to 14:00 if you just want to hear Vinny.
Any comments? I was a little surprised to hear the guy say that at big casinos (MGM, Bellagio) they have 2 to 4 surveillance guys working at any one time. How is that possible?
Quote: SonuvabishThat's not going to convince him if he's not guessing. It would lead to an escalation.
Depends how you do it. I wouldn't just complain to the pit. I'd just appear visibly upset and mumble about it. If a dealer or pit critter asked me about it, I'd just say "this guy accused me of cheating". The guy will probably jump in with "no, I accused him of counting" which gives you a nice big opening to say "whatever, same thing".
Or if you wanted to talk directly to the guy you could say something like "I don't need to cheat -- it's not my fault you're losing". Nothing over the top, and nothing confrontational. Annoyed, but calm. Nothing that could come remotely close to get you in trouble. Do not raise your voice, curse, or gesture in a threatening manner.
Yes, but it also sounds like the Pit Boss doesn't give a whit about it. So keep on with your amateurish act or keep on with your serious endeavor, which ever way you want to view it.Quote: BuzzardSounds like your act is a little weak if a ploppy spotted you !
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceActually, this reminds me. There was another GWAE link I wanted you to listen to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXd8U9giWI
You can skip ahead to 14:00 if you just want to hear Vinny.
Any comments? I was a little surprised to hear the guy say that at big casinos (MGM, Bellagio) they have 2 to 4 surveillance guys working at any one time. How is that possible?
Without having listened to the comments yet, I will post this.
Most, if not all Surveillance rooms in the US are grossly understaffed. There is usually between 2 and 6 people in the room, depending on the shift and size of the operation. That compared to Asian casinos where you have between 11 and 16 per shift.
Main reason for this is money. Asia makes a boat load full and don't mind spending money on protecting themselves compared to the US where everything is number crunched to the max. Remember, Surveillance is not a revenue generating department, or so they say :) I disagree with this tatement and believe that they are, just not in the historical sense of the word!
Quote: TomspurMain reason for this is money. Asia makes a boat load full and don't mind spending money on protecting themselves compared to the US where everything is number crunched to the max. Remember, Surveillance is not a revenue generating department, or so they say :) I disagree with this tatement and believe that they are, just not in the historical sense of the word!
I agree with that. A penny saved is a penny earned.
But if there are two guys working the entire MGM Grand or Bellagio, it seems that you could get away with whatever you wanted so long as you didn't do anything to draw attention to yourself and make the pit boss call them.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceDepends how you do it. I wouldn't just complain to the pit. I'd just appear visibly upset and mumble about it. If a dealer or pit critter asked me about it, I'd just say "this guy accused me of cheating". The guy will probably jump in with "no, I accused him of counting" which gives you a nice big opening to say "whatever, same thing".
Or if you wanted to talk directly to the guy you could say something like "I don't need to cheat -- it's not my fault you're losing". Nothing over the top, and nothing confrontational. Annoyed, but calm. Nothing that could come remotely close to get you in trouble. Do not raise your voice, curse, or gesture in a threatening manner.
Nobody said anything. The guy wasn't talking to me. He was being incredibly rude. I think interrupting him to tell him it's not my fault he's a loser is kind of asking to argue. He would periodically congratulate me for a good hand. I'd mumble something, and appear politely annoyed. Guy wasn't brain dead, he knows he's a total prick. Believe me, it crossed my mind to say something to him. And I was wondering if I should have. I feel better that my Tom convinced me my initial reaction was best. If this guy would have approached me in the bathroom or outside, I would have told him to get the f--- away from me and pulled out my keychain pepper spray that I carry for angry degenerate and robber ploppies. But other than that, I'm glad that I said nothing to the guy.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI agree with that. A penny saved is a penny earned.
But if there are two guys working the entire MGM Grand or Bellagio, it seems that you could get away with whatever you wanted so long as you didn't do anything to draw attention to yourself and make the pit boss call them.
Those are luxury properties and they almost always have 5 or 6 per shift. Anyway we rely on teamwork. We do spot audits but we also follow up on all phone calls from the pit. Just beware we have soem pretty reliable facial recognition software that is able to scan through everyone in the casino and compare with our AP and cheating databses. MGM has a huge databse for AP's.
Quote: TomspurThose are luxury properties and they almost always have 5 or 6 per shift. Anyway we rely on teamwork. We do spot audits but we also follow up on all phone calls from the pit. Just beware we have soem pretty reliable facial recognition software that is able to scan through everyone in the casino and compare with our AP and cheating databses. MGM has a huge databse for AP's.
Hmm, interesting. If you have time to listen to that episode I'd really like you hear your comments! (He disagrees with you on some things)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceHmm, interesting. If you have time to listen to that episode I'd really like you hear your comments! (He disagrees with you on some things)
Turns out I have a dinner appointment tonight (and that is quite a thing in Korea) so I may only be able to listen to it tomorrow.
I will get to it though!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceActually, this reminds me. There was another GWAE link I wanted you to listen to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXd8U9giWI
You can skip ahead to 14:00 if you just want to hear Vinny.
Any comments? I was a little surprised to hear the guy say that at big casinos (MGM, Bellagio) they have 2 to 4 surveillance guys working at any one time. How is that possible?
There is no chance any big casino runs on "only 2" surveillance staff. The absolute minimum would be 3 to 4 midweek.
On facial recognition software, we are on about 70% accuracy with regards to facial recognition (which isn't good enough just yet) but the reason the software didn't work in the beginning was because the camera quality is very bad in Vegas.
Things have dramatically changed of late. You do have to have a certain angle though, which isn't always possible but in Asia things have changed with the implementation of digital IP cameras and improved software.
....and here is a big thing....surveillance absolutely does not tell the casino duty managers who to back off or to 86 them instead of barring them. We can make suggestions but in no way can we take action. We simply make suggestions based on the facts, nothing more. We only observe and report, nothing more.
Axiom, he is a very knowledgeable guy but not everything he has said is absolutely true. Still, interesting that he has gone the route he has. More power to him I guess, money talks and bulls**t walks :)
Quote: TomspurThere is no chance any big casino runs on "only 2" surveillance staff. The absolute minimum would be 3 to 4 midweek.
On facial recognition software, we are on about 70% accuracy with regards to facial recognition (which isn't good enough just yet) but the reason the software didn't work in the beginning was because the camera quality is very bad in Vegas.
Things have dramatically changed of late. You do have to have a certain angle though, which isn't always possible but in Asia things have changed with the implementation of digital IP cameras and improved software.
....and here is a big thing....surveillance absolutely does not tell the casino duty managers who to back off or to 86 them instead of barring them. We can make suggestions but in no way can we take action. We simply make suggestions based on the facts, nothing more. We only observe and report, nothing more.
Axiom, he is a very knowledgeable guy but not everything he has said is absolutely true. Still, interesting that he has gone the route he has. More power to him I guess, money talks and bulls**t walks :)
Thanks! Honestly, some of the things that he said sounded a little bit hard to believe, which is why I was curious to hear your comments on the matter. Maybe you need to go on GWAE :)
back-off means: don't play blackjack any more
86 means: please leave the casino
bar means: please leave the casino and don't come back
As for legalities, check the trespassing laws in your jurisdiction. It differs.
As far as likelihoods, you might want to, at least, avoid that shift. The risk goes away when they forget you. If they back off lots of people that might not take long. If they rarely do it, so yours was a memorable event, it might never happen.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThanks! Honestly, some of the things that he said sounded a little bit hard to believe, which is why I was curious to hear your comments on the matter. Maybe you need to go on GWAE :)
I am very happy to remain completely out of the spotlight, even if it is only a GWAE podcast :)
There was another thing I had ommited last night and that was that Vinny had said Surveillance people are ketp separate from everyone else, we have separate entrances, we eat separately et al. This again used to be true but it most assuredly isn't true today. It may be because the casinos are cutting back on cost and it is just not effective to keep us separate or it could also be that everyone realizes Surveillance is just as much a part of the casino as any other department. We serve a purpose and we are there to help. We don't hand out pink slips and stand behind dealers whipping them into shape. We are merely a support system that any revenue generating or cash handling department should be able to lean on.
The industry has always sort of villified Surveillance because of their preconceived ideas of us or that we are trapping them or that we are making nefareous deals behind closed doors. Since I have been in Surveillance we have tried our best to dispel those ideas and for the most part we have done OK but it is still a long hard battle against the old guard who think we somehow are monsters behind the eye.
Anyway, my openness here and my willingness to share any and all information should prove we are not as clandestine as people may think?
Thanks for the link Axiom!
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI thought:
back-off means: don't play blackjack any more
86 means: please leave the casino
bar means: please leave the casino and don't come back
As for legalities, check the trespassing laws in your jurisdiction. It differs.
As far as likelihoods, you might want to, at least, avoid that shift. The risk goes away when they forget you. If they back off lots of people that might not take long. If they rarely do it, so yours was a memorable event, it might never happen.
They don't back off many for card-counting. I will be remembered.
According to those definitions, I've only been backed-off. What happens when you disregard a back-off?
Quote: TomspurQuote: AxiomOfChoiceActually, this reminds me. There was another GWAE link I wanted you to listen to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTXd8U9giWI
You can skip ahead to 14:00 if you just want to hear Vinny.
Any comments? I was a little surprised to hear the guy say that at big casinos (MGM, Bellagio) they have 2 to 4 surveillance guys working at any one time. How is that possible?
Without having listened to the comments yet, I will post this.
Most, if not all Surveillance rooms in the US are grossly understaffed. There is usually between 2 and 6 people in the room, depending on the shift and size of the operation. That compared to Asian casinos where you have between 11 and 16 per shift.
Main reason for this is money. Asia makes a boat load full and don't mind spending money on protecting themselves compared to the US where everything is number crunched to the max. Remember, Surveillance is not a revenue generating department, or so they say :) I disagree with this tatement and believe that they are, just not in the historical sense of the word!
Wow, that's very short-sighted of American admins if that's how they see it. Especially considering many games are designed for the house not to win, but to NOT lose. There are 2 sides to making money; generating revenue, and stop-loss. Weird they look at it that way.
Quote: SonuvabishThey don't back off many for card-counting. I will be remembered.
According to those definitions, I've only been backed-off. What happens when you disregard a back-off?
They will trespass you, which means that if you come back to that casino, they have the right to call Metro (LV) and you may be arrested for trespassing on private property.
Quote: SonuvabishThey don't back off many for card-counting. I will be remembered.
According to those definitions, I've only been backed-off. What happens when you disregard a back-off?
Nothing. They can ask you not to play again or give you the actual trespass act, but just asking someone not to play blackjack anymore doesn't carry any legal weight. Of course you are better off waiting a few months if you get the back off since if they see you at the table 5 minutes later you'll get the trespass act.
Quote: TomspurThey will trespass you, which means that if you come back to that casino, they have the right to call Metro (LV) and you may be arrested for trespassing on private property.
Does their right to call you a trespasser expire after a certain time? Because this is what I figured would happen if I ignored the back-off. But if the back-off has no expiration, and the trespass does, there may be no reason to respect the back-off once I've waited a reasonable period of time. Unless I wait 10 years, they will remember.
Quote: SonuvabishDoes their right to call you a trespasser expire after a certain time? Because this is what I figured would happen if I ignored the back-off. But if the back-off has no expiration, and the trespass does, there may be no reason to respect the back-off once I've waited a reasonable period of time. Unless I wait 10 years, they will remember.
As far as I'm aware the trespass does not expire. You are permanently barred from playing in their casino. However I think you may still be allowed on property to stay in the hotel.
I really don't have much details on exactly how trespass works but we have on many occasions received a list of people who are trespassed but still allowed to book into the hotel if they so choose.
Best you try and speak with someone more knowledgeable on the subject than me.
Quote: SonuvabishThey don't back off many for card-counting. I will be remembered.
According to those definitions, I've only been backed-off. What happens when you disregard a back-off?
Can I ask what words they used?
Were they specific? ("No more blackjack tonight"? "Never play blackjack here again"?) Or is there room for interpretation ("No more blackjack"?)
I would say, wait long enough that, if they were talking about you, they aren't any more (at least several weeks, preferably a few months) and then test the waters on a different shift. Going back during that same shift is probably a mistake.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceHaving said that -- I've never actually been backed off; my advice is based only on what I've read. Someone with more experience (Kewlj? You reading?) might be able to give you better advice.
Yeah I am waiting for one of the pros to chime in.
I've been flat bet once, backed off from blackjack (told not to play blackjack, anything else is fine), and 86'ed from a casino (told not to come back). Once each. Never tresspassed though. Those 4 actions seem pretty clear.
As far as terminology, "barred" is the ambiguous one, as far as I can tell.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceCan I ask what words they used?
Were they specific? ("No more blackjack tonight"? "Never play blackjack here again"?) Or is there room for interpretation ("No more blackjack"?)
I would say, wait long enough that, if they were talking about you, they aren't any more (at least several weeks, preferably a few months) and then test the waters on a different shift. Going back during that same shift is probably a mistake.
One place said I could only bet the minimum and play one hand. The other place said I could not play blackjack. Both places said I was welcome to play any other game. I suppose there is room for interpretation since they did not in any way suggest there was an unending time frame their restrictions encompassed, and they were not kicking me out of the casino. But it doesn't seem like there is any standard time period, so I'm either gonna get backed off or trespassed if I play again. It's not like I hit a place for a half hour. I sit down for 10 hours and repeat weekly. So, yeah, can't really put them back on the list. Plus, at one place, I knew everybody. I must have played 2000 hours in 15 months--a few bosses began half-shoeing me, and for months, I ignored it and moved to a different pit and continued. I play till I can't. I don't pussyfoot around. But I'm wondering about the protocols. Sounds like there's no good options. Rainy day maybe just hit them, because they won't expect me.
Quote: AcesAndEightsYeah I am waiting for one of the pros to chime in.
I've been flat bet once, backed off from blackjack (told not to play blackjack, anything else is fine), and 86'ed from a casino (told not to come back). Once each. Never tresspassed though. Those 4 actions seem pretty clear.
As far as terminology, "barred" is the ambiguous one, as far as I can tell.
A back off is being flat bet, having your bet restricted in some other manner or being told no more blackjack. The latter does not apply in Atlantic City.
Getting 86'ed, banned or barred are all the same thing and mean you must leave the casino.
Being read the Trespass Act is a little more formal. The implication was that if you returned after being read this you would be arrested for trespassing.
I remember the Wilkinson case which took the teeth out of the Trespass Act. This only applied to Nevada. I remember it because it was around the time I headed to New Jersey for the opening of Resorts.
Wilkinson was a woman who was arrested for trespassing in a Vegas casino. She won on appeal and as a result anyone entering a casino after being read the Trespass Act had to be given the opportunity to leave before being arrested. It didn't matter if a trespassed person entered the casino every day. She committed no crime so I don't know how it would be handled were a crime committed.
I hate to pick on Indian casinos but, let's face it, if you get in trouble there anything can happen. I've got a few stories.
Quote: 1BBA back off is being flat bet, having your bet restricted in some other manner or being told no more blackjack. The latter does not apply in Atlantic City.
Getting 86'ed, banned or barred are all the same thing and mean you must leave the casino.
Being read the Trespass Act is a little more formal. The implication was that if you returned after being read this you would be arrested for trespassing.
I remember the Wilkinson case which took the teeth out of the Trespass Act. This only applied to Nevada. I remember it because it was around the time I headed to New Jersey for the opening of Resorts.
Wilkinson was a woman who was arrested for trespassing in a Vegas casino. She won on appeal and as a result anyone entering a casino after being read the Trespass Act had to be given the opportunity to leave before being arrested. It didn't matter if a trespassed person entered the casino every day. She committed no crime so I don't know how it would be handled were a crime committed.
I hate to pick on Indian casinos but, let's face it, if you get in trouble there anything can happen. I've got a few stories.
That's more along what I thought they meant. There being a third possibility threw me off. I remember you are the one who is not a fan of Indian casinos. Nothing can happen to you in an Indian casino that can't happen to you somewhere else. Let's hear the story.
Quote: SonuvabishNothing can happen to you in an Indian casino that can't happen to you somewhere else.
That is really not true. In one of Bob N's many appearances on GWAE, he talked about this very issue. I don't have a link handy, but it's on youtube and it worth listening to if you play in Indian casinos.
