BJ 1st Base Advantage

I always prefer to play the first-base spot at the BJ table because that position has an advantage. Hear me out before you start to compose the flames. Let me first say that I don't think sitting at any particular spot will, in general, affect my bankroll. But I do say that first-base provides a social engineering advantage starting with the burn card. If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten garnering sympathy from any poppies at the table. If a lousy car is burned I invite the table to celebrate the great luck that surely portends for "the team." By being the first to act I avoid bearing the overwhelming responsibility of [sarcasm] deciding what card the dealer will get [/sarcasm]. After all, if my play has "fouled the deck" then another player who [sarcasm] knows how things should work [/sarcasm] can step up and rectify the mistake. If I am an idiot for taking the dealer's bust card there are other actors who can set things right by taking it up the nose for the team. Shame on them if they do not! (Unless, of course, I [[sarcasm] took the last bust card in the shoe [/sarcasm].)

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I always prefer to play the first-base spot at the BJ table because that position has an advantage. Hear me out before you start to compose the flames. Let me first say that I don't think sitting at any particular spot will, in general, affect my bankroll. But I do say that first-base provides a social engineering advantage starting with the burn card. If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten garnering sympathy from any poppies at the table. If a lousy car is burned I invite the table to celebrate the great luck that surely portends for "the team." By being the first to act I avoid bearing the overwhelming responsibility of [sarcasm] deciding what card the dealer will get [/sarcasm]. After all, if my play has "fouled the deck" then another player who [sarcasm] knows how things should work [/sarcasm] can step up and rectify the mistake. If I am an idiot for taking the dealer's bust card there are other actors who can set things right by taking it up the nose for the team. Shame on them if they do not! (Unless, of course, I [[sarcasm] took the last bust card in the shoe [/sarcasm].)

I had my flame thrower revved up and ready to go, but I understand what you're saying with the "social engineering" advantage.

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I always prefer to play the first-base spot at the BJ table because that position has an advantage. Hear me out before you start to compose the flames. Let me first say that I don't think sitting at any particular spot will, in general, affect my bankroll. But I do say that first-base provides a social engineering advantage starting with the burn card. If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten garnering sympathy from any poppies at the table. If a lousy car is burned I invite the table to celebrate the great luck that surely portends for "the team." By being the first to act I avoid bearing the overwhelming responsibility of [sarcasm] deciding what card the dealer will get [/sarcasm]. After all, if my play has "fouled the deck" then another player who [sarcasm] knows how things should work [/sarcasm] can step up and rectify the mistake. If I am an idiot for taking the dealer's bust card there are other actors who can set things right by taking it up the nose for the team. Shame on them if they do not! (Unless, of course, I [[sarcasm] took the last bust card in the shoe [/sarcasm].)

They show you the burn card?

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I always prefer to play the first-base spot at the BJ table because that position has an advantage. Hear me out before you start to compose the flames. Let me first say that I don't think sitting at any particular spot will, in general, affect my bankroll. But I do say that first-base provides a social engineering advantage starting with the burn card. If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten garnering sympathy from any poppies at the table. If a lousy car is burned I invite the table to celebrate the great luck that surely portends for "the team." By being the first to act I avoid bearing the overwhelming responsibility of [sarcasm] deciding what card the dealer will get [/sarcasm]. After all, if my play has "fouled the deck" then another player who [sarcasm] knows how things should work [/sarcasm] can step up and rectify the mistake. If I am an idiot for taking the dealer's bust card there are other actors who can set things right by taking it up the nose for the team. Shame on them if they do not! (Unless, of course, I [[sarcasm] took the last bust card in the shoe [/sarcasm].)

They show you the burn card?

You can ask to see it in most jurisdictions.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

They show you the burn card?

As per rdw4potus's comment, yes, sometimes I have to ask. At first base I have a great reason to ask: it would have been my card. Then I get to count it :-)

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten

you blame the dealer for this?
doesn't a player cut the deck where you play

and where the cut is determines the very next card.
sounds like we need to place blame on the one that cuts the deck

I never cut it. ever
for that reason
no one can blame me for a horrible shoe
cut thin to win
Sally

Quote: mustangsally

you blame the dealer for this?
doesn't a player cut the deck where you play

and where the cut is determines the very next card.
sounds like we need to place blame on the one that cuts the deck

I never cut it. ever
for that reason
no one can blame me for a horrible shoe
cut thin to win
Sally

At some places I try very hard to be the one who cuts.

deleted

Asking to see the burn card just seems like a major red flag to me. I've played with thousands of people over the years and not a single one of them has ever asked to see it. An early shuffle yes, but burn card no.

deleted

Quote: geoff

Asking to see the burn card just seems like a major red flag to me. I've played with thousands of people over the years and not a single one of them has ever asked to see it. An early shuffle yes, but burn card no.

It is very common at the Connecticut casinos for the dealer to automatically show the burn card. I'd say it's shown over 75% of the time. Players ask to see it all the time in the cases where it isn't shown and there is never a problem. Some try to guess what it is and others are superstitious. I don't think a counter would ask. At these casinos it is only one card out of 312 or 416 making it insignificant. Yes, the relief dealer will burn a card but, again, it's insignificant. It's just another unseen card.

I try to avoid both 1st and 3rd base for a number of reasons.

1. 3rd base is thought of as the preferred spot for card counters. It's one of those profile things, like young, male, white, drinks bottled water. I already have a number of these working against me that I can't do much about, I don't want to fit the profile 100%. lol

2. At many places, the tables are positioned too close together and 1st and 3rd base are right up against the backs of the chairs from the next table. You can get trapped or wedged in there, especially with a large player at the next table. As a player who plays short sessions and exits aggressively, I like to have a path for easy and quick get-a-ways.

3. Most times, I am tracking a second table in addition to the one I am playing and if the opportunity at the second table becomes more advantageous, I will jump tables. This gives me twice the opportunity to hit that shoe with a strong count. Now if you are pinned in at 1st or 3rd base, you can't track the table to your back, as I haven't yet developed eyes in the back of my head. You are left with only one secondary tracking option and it is only one straight line of sight. If anyone is playing the opposite corner of your table or the corner of the next table, you are blocked out. Sitting towards the middle gives me a view of each neighboring table, and by leaning up or back a bit, I have a couple different lines of sight to each. In other words....more options. :)

You can ask no matter what. Just after seeing it be sure to say "Aww, we want that one" for a high card or "We didn't want that one anyway" for bad ones.

Quote: geoff

Asking to see the burn card just seems like a major red flag to me. I've played with thousands of people over the years and not a single one of them has ever asked to see it. An early shuffle yes, but burn card no.

I've asked to see the card from a relief a few times when I was hemming and hawing about if I should've hit or not. Invariably gets rejected.

I did, however, have the dealer ask if I wanted an early shuffle at The M the other day, after 7 hands that were like T-6-T.

Quote: kewlj

3. Most times, I am tracking a second table in addition to the one I am playing and if the opportunity at the second table becomes more advantageous, I will jump tables. This gives me twice the opportunity to hit that shoe with a strong count. Now if you are pinned in at 1st or 3rd base, you can't track the table to your back, as I haven't yet developed eyes in the back of my head. You are left with only one secondary tracking option and it is only one straight line of sight. If anyone is playing the opposite corner of your table or the corner of the next table, you are blocked out. Sitting towards the middle gives me a view of each neighboring table, and by leaning up or back a bit, I have a couple different lines of sight to each. In other words....more options. :)

So you're able to sit at one table, count cards accurately and play accordingly, while at the same time watch and count another table? WOW, I'll be honest I had no idea that card counters had become that skilled. That must def help your overall income

Quote: michael99000

So you're able to sit at one table, count cards accurately and play accordingly, while at the same time watch and count another table? WOW, I'll be honest I had no idea that card counters had become that skilled. That must def help your overall income

Not always able to do so. Depends on the set up at the casino and how crowded it is. At busier times of day and days of week, it becomes more difficult. But I am probably able to track a second table 50% of the time. Your tracking of the secondary table isn't going to be perfect. Not nearly as accurate as your primary table. You will miss cards. Maybe see cards incorrectly (you are looking at pips and paint, not numbers). But, even allowing for some error, if you can exit a negative situation, for a more favorable opportunity, you can increase your win rate substantially. For card counters it is really all about the frequency of those high counts, those max bet situation. Tracking multiple table allows you to move those numbers a little more in your favor. Instead of seeing 5 max bet situations per hour, maybe you can identify 7 or 8. That's a healthy increase and will be reflected in your win rate.

Quote: rdw4potus

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

I always prefer to play the first-base spot at the BJ table because that position has an advantage. Hear me out before you start to compose the flames. Let me first say that I don't think sitting at any particular spot will, in general, affect my bankroll. But I do say that first-base provides a social engineering advantage starting with the burn card. If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten garnering sympathy from any poppies at the table. If a lousy car is burned I invite the table to celebrate the great luck that surely portends for "the team." By being the first to act I avoid bearing the overwhelming responsibility of [sarcasm] deciding what card the dealer will get [/sarcasm]. After all, if my play has "fouled the deck" then another player who [sarcasm] knows how things should work [/sarcasm] can step up and rectify the mistake. If I am an idiot for taking the dealer's bust card there are other actors who can set things right by taking it up the nose for the team. Shame on them if they do not! (Unless, of course, I [[sarcasm] took the last bust card in the shoe [/sarcasm].)

They show you the burn card?

You can ask to see it in most jurisdictions.

You can ask to see it every jurisdiction. In mine, they won't show you. And they frown upon repeatedly asking.

Quote: mustangsally

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

If a good card is burned I can whine about how the damn dealer took my ace or ten

you blame the dealer for this?
doesn't a player cut the deck where you play

and where the cut is determines the very next card.
sounds like we need to place blame on the one that cuts the deck

I never cut it. ever
for that reason
no one can blame me for a horrible shoe
cut thin to win
Sally

Yes, I imply it is the dealer's fault for the audience of the other players. The dealer is a professional and use to being blamed for anything bad that happens. I'm sure dealing with my comment about the burn card is just fluff compared to what they endure when they hit a 5-card 21 or get 2 BJ's in a row. I would think that if the dealer notices I hit soft 18's, decline even money and play a chip for them once in a while then they deduce my burn card comments are BS, and I don't mean basic strategy. I have yet to have a dealer respond to a negative comment with "Don't blame me, sir: That player who cut is to blame!" For the dealer, "It goes with the territory." [Lomax in Miller's Death of a Salesman]

Quote: BleedingChipsSlowly

Yes, I imply it is the dealer's fault for the audience of the other players. The dealer is a professional and use to being blamed for anything bad that happens. I'm sure dealing with my comment about the burn card is just fluff compared to what they endure when they hit a 5-card 21 or get 2 BJ's in a row. I would think that if the dealer notices I hit soft 18's, decline even money and play a chip for them once in a while then they deduce my burn card comments are BS, and I don't mean basic strategy. I have yet to have a dealer respond to a negative comment with "Don't blame me, sir: That player who cut is to blame!" For the dealer, "It goes with the territory." [Lomax in Miller's Death of a Salesman]

Dealers are not professionals, they are supposed to act professionally...unless cats are professional meowers, right soxfan?