Experiences with Other Players
For quite a long time, I was playing at a Spanish 21 table with a VERY critical player who said that I "played wrong, ruined the order of the cards, etc." After a while, when I was noticeably up, she said: "Are you counting cards?" I explained that card counting doesn't work in Spanish 21. She said "I think you're counting cards. How else could you be winning?" (I had a large bet out at the START of the shoe at the time). When the pit boss came to check the chip inventory, player ratings, the PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards". All the time, I was thinking "why the hell would a player say something like that? At the table is bad enough, but to say that to a pit boss is just plain idiotic. Do you want to HELP casinos?"
I guess I'm kind of wondering if this player (and others) seriously believe that card counters "hurt" other players if they "play wrong". If you have some thoughts or interesting stories, please post them.
Quote: nvr55xxWhile advantage Blackjack players should try to avoid crowds of other players, here's an "interesting" story from a while back:
For quite a long time, I was playing at a Spanish 21 table with a VERY critical player who said that I "played wrong, ruined the order of the cards, etc." After a while, when I was noticeably up, she said: "Are you counting cards?" I explained that card counting doesn't work in Spanish 21. She said "I think you're counting cards. How else could you be winning?" (I had a large bet out at the START of the shoe at the time). When the pit boss came to check the chip inventory, player ratings, the PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards". All the time, I was thinking "why the hell would a player say something like that? At the table is bad enough, but to say that to a pit boss is just plain idiotic. Do you want to HELP casinos?"
I guess I'm kind of wondering if this player (and others) seriously believe that card counters "hurt" other players if they "play wrong". If you have some thoughts or interesting stories, please post them.
Back when I used to play blackjack, I got a lot of heat from other players because I only bet at positive counts. There were people, one at Resorts and one at Golden Nugget, that basically told the entire table not to play unless I was playing. I couldn't believe it.
Quote: nvr55xxWhile advantage Blackjack players should try to avoid crowds of other players, here's an "interesting" story from a while back:
For quite a long time, I was playing at a Spanish 21 table with a VERY critical player who said that I "played wrong, ruined the order of the cards, etc." After a while, when I was noticeably up, she said: "Are you counting cards?" I explained that card counting doesn't work in Spanish 21. She said "I think you're counting cards. How else could you be winning?" (I had a large bet out at the START of the shoe at the time). When the pit boss came to check the chip inventory, player ratings, the PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards". All the time, I was thinking "why the hell would a player say something like that? At the table is bad enough, but to say that to a pit boss is just plain idiotic. Do you want to HELP casinos?"
I guess I'm kind of wondering if this player (and others) seriously believe that card counters "hurt" other players if they "play wrong". If you have some thoughts or interesting stories, please post them.
WOW that is mean spirited. I have never had anything even close to that in my limited counting career. Sometimes you will get weird stares from the rest of the table if you are raking in max bets at a huge count and your action is quite a bit higher. I'm sure some of them think in their head "man I wonder if that guy is one of those card counter people." But I have never once had any other players hypothesize verbally about it.
Now on to the real question - what kind of advantage play were you pursuing at said Spanish table?
lolQuote: AcesAndEights"In simple terms, when in doubt whip it out." -AxelWolf
Quote: IbeatyouracesI had a guy ask me if I was counting when I asked him to wait until the end of the shoe. Obviously it was a high count, but I denied that I was ;-)
You just didn't want him to mess up the flow of the cards, man.
Another thing I just thought about is that you sometimes get those same stares from the other players if you are LOSING max bet after max bet in a huge count. However, I doubt many of them mentally hypothesize that you might be a card counter in those cases :).
Quote: AcesAndEightsWOW that is mean spirited. I have never had anything even close to that in my limited counting career. Sometimes you will get weird stares from the rest of the table if you are raking in max bets at a huge count and your action is quite a bit higher. I'm sure some of them think in their head "man I wonder if that guy is one of those card counter people." But I have never once had any other players hypothesize verbally about it.
The only time I got asked if I counted was while playing at a church festival. The rules were so horrible that I was playing a dead even game. The dealer asked after seeing people come and go while I played for an hour on a $20 buy-in.
When playing for real, the closest is that on two different occasions, players started watching to see what I'd do when the dealer offered Insurance. The other day, I hit three successfully in quick succession. One player at the other end of the table said: "He must know what he's doin", as he put out the chips to insure his hand. All the other players insured and won. That was a good time to get out, as the pit boss was beginning to take too much interest.
Quote: ImpmonThe only time I got asked if I counted was while playing at a church festival. The rules were so horrible that I was playing a dead even game. The dealer asked after seeing people come and go while I played for an hour on a $20 buy-in.
When playing for real, the closest is that on two different occasions, players started watching to see what I'd do when the dealer offered Insurance. The other day, I hit three successfully in quick succession. One player at the other end of the table said: "He must know what he's doin", as he put out the chips to insure his hand. All the other players insured and won. That was a good time to get out, as the pit boss was beginning to take too much interest.
What do you mean by "dead even game"? Oh and at the church festival by me they have 2-1 on your BJ but ties go to the house.
Quote: Lemieux66What do you mean by "dead even game"? Oh and at the church festival by me they have 2-1 on your BJ but ties go to the house.
A dead even game is where your EV is 0.
Quote: geoffA dead even game is where your EV is 0.
Oh, I thought he meant the table rules meant no house edge. That would be insane!
Quote: nvr55xxWhen the pit boss came to check the chip inventory, player ratings, the PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards". All the time, I was thinking "why the hell would a player say something like that? At the table is bad enough, but to say that to a pit boss is just plain idiotic. Do you want to HELP casinos?"
Not this specifically, but I've seen vindictive players like this before. Basically the attitude is "if I'm not winning, you can't win either."
Quote: nvr55xx(I had a large bet out at the START of the shoe at the time).
Why? Were you shuffle tracking?
Quote: nvr55xxthe PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards".
Was the player's name Dan?
Quote: nvr55xxWhile advantage Blackjack players should try to avoid crowds of other players, here's an "interesting" story from a while back:
For quite a long time, I was playing at a Spanish 21 table with a VERY critical player who said that I "played wrong, ruined the order of the cards, etc." After a while, when I was noticeably up, she said: "Are you counting cards?" I explained that card counting doesn't work in Spanish 21. She said "I think you're counting cards. How else could you be winning?" (I had a large bet out at the START of the shoe at the time). When the pit boss came to check the chip inventory, player ratings, the PLAYER spoke up and said to the PB "I think that guy's counting cards". All the time, I was thinking "why the hell would a player say something like that? At the table is bad enough, but to say that to a pit boss is just plain idiotic. Do you want to HELP casinos?"
I guess I'm kind of wondering if this player (and others) seriously believe that card counters "hurt" other players if they "play wrong". If you have some thoughts or interesting stories, please post them.
I've had a number of players mention it, or ask me. I've had two who were disgruntled about it...one was a mental feeble, and I don't know how he figured it--complained to another player. The other was a smart, lonely, fat lady: complained out-loud to her self, loud enough for the table and dealer to hear, but not clearly identifying me in her mutterings (I think she mainly wanted to impress me that she knew)...and who knows, this type of person maybe went to a pit boss before she went home and pointed me out, anything's possible. And what you describe is something I have worried bout, which is why I try not to make people mad if they show any sign of intelligence. But wow, you met one serious, degenerate, black-hearted, souless, whore of satan. I am sure many other experienced players will tell you, it is rare to meet a ploppy of that caliber. I don't know much about Spanish 21, but I doubt they care nearly as much about counting compared to blackjack.
After a few shoes like this the count went far negitive. When it did all three players decided they would stop playing and just watch for a bit. Funny thing was I won every hand they sat out while the count was negitive. The big money player finally started playing but this time with a table minimum bet. Halfway through the next hand the guy setting next to me ask the big player " is it good"? The big player shot him a real dirty look. Then small player ask him is it six is that right? I almost fell off of the stool! I played a couple more hands and then I excused myself from the table. All three guys where actively arguing with each other about asking about the count so obviously. The big money player was up about a grand when I left.
I couldn't believe they where so open about it and couldn't believe nothing was said at all to them about it.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWas the player's name Dan?
No.
1. this is because I wouldn't care if Joe Blow was counting casino 'x'.
2. However, If it were at a casino where an associate or friend of mine was flooring or the PB, and this or worse was going on, I'd pull him aside far from the table. People wouldn't notice, or think I was asking for a comp.
Quote: Mikey75I was playing at a table some time back when these three guys came and joined the game. They all three claimed to be friends and playing together. They all set out until the new shoe started. Then only two of them played while the third one just watched. He told the dealer that he didn't like to play the first part of a shoe. The other two played right at table minimum. When the count turned positive the third player that hadn't been playing placed a much larger bet than the other two. He continued to place large bet through out the shoe until the count begin to fall. The next shoe he again sat out until the count went positive and then he came in with a large bet.
After a few shoes like this the count went far negitive. When it did all three players decided they would stop playing and just watch for a bit. Funny thing was I won every hand they sat out while the count was negitive. The big money player finally started playing but this time with a table minimum bet. Halfway through the next hand the guy setting next to me ask the big player " is it good"? The big player shot him a real dirty look. Then small player ask him is it six is that right? I almost fell off of the stool! I played a couple more hands and then I excused myself from the table. All three guys where actively arguing with each other about asking about the count so obviously. The big money player was up about a grand when I left.
I couldn't believe they where so open about it and couldn't believe nothing was said at all to them about it.
That is hilarious. There is no way I would have left.
Quote: kitties666I count the cards out of habit, but i always felt at mohegan they've got counting effectively marginalized by the variance generated by their rules. i was playing mostly BS, made a couple of AP moves here & there...that's about it, got took slowly & painfully on that trip.
Mohegan has good rules and is all 6-deck. Their 60% penetration seems to make them regard counters as human ATM's.
On a few occasions, I've seen them allow more than double the BJ table maximum to accommodate players.
If any Craps player asks them to raise the Odds allowance on a $25 bet by even one multiple, they will refuse the request. I have yet to see an exception.
They apparently regard Odds bets as more of a threat than a card counter with a $6,000 hand.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThat is hilarious. There is no way I would have left.
It was pretty funny. I was very new to counting at the time and their antics made me pretty nervous. If it happened again I wouldn't leave just to see how it all played out.
The big player bought in with a $5,000 chip from the casino next door. I often wondered if he was trying to play that chip at another place to keep from cashing so much in at the casino that he left. Of course there is no way if knowing what he bought in for at the casino next door.
Quote: beachbumbabsPerhaps the chip from "next door" was still wet from the spray paint? Or even the sewer tube? (Joke)
I've been assaulted, threatened, given money for saving the table, asked for loans, offered sexual favors, been felt up and had a drink deliberately dumped on my cards. Do not in any way think this is the norm. It is far from it. These few things happened over decades.
I'm very good at ignoring others at the table and even better at getting them to leave or eat cards when called for but only if they are jerks. I was even jumped in a parking garage by a guy and a girl in an attempted robbery. So much for not hitting a woman. Ah, the great casino life.
I do not discuss strategy or comment on the play of others. I do talk about my hunches, gut feelings and the flow of the cards.
Quote: 1BBI've been assaulted, threatened, given money for saving the table, asked for loans, offered sexual favors, been felt up and had a drink deliberately dumped on my cards. Do not in any way think this is the norm. It is far from it. These few things happened over decades.
.
I have had all of those things happen as well, except a deliberate drink dump. It kind of makes you understand why high rollers want a table to themselves. I've never played at a level that I could ask for that, but I also go to play for the social enjoyment as well as the cards, so I don't know that I would. I did leave the Boomtown in Biloxi because of the clientele, though; was a rough crowd, and my mom, who was trying to move around in it, was the instigator of needing to leave, though I agreed.
Quote: 1BBI do not discuss strategy or comment on the play of others. I do talk about my hunches, gut feelings and the flow of the cards.
I point it out every time I save the table.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI point it out every time I save the table.
Oh yeah, we're all on the same team. Ha ha. When you don't save the table, players and many times the dealer are only too happy to point it out.
Quote: 1BBOh yeah, we're all on the same team. Ha ha. When you don't save the table, players and many times the dealer are only too happy to point it out.
Well, yeah, that's why I need to point out the times that I do save the table!
(Sarcastic) Remember: Blackjack is a TEAM game. Those counters in the "21" movie mad money as a team, so if you play as a team (and be obvious about it), you'll win.
Quote: 1BBOh yeah, we're all on the same team. Ha ha. When you don't save the table, players and many times the dealer are only too happy to point it out.
Don't forget that these dealers that tell you that you are ruining the order of the cards, playing wrong, and making other players lose are the same dealers that wonder why you don't feel like leaving a $1 tip after a $1000+ win!
