What's your blackjack disguise?
- Do you tell them the truth or lie?
The most frequent introductory questions asked are:
"So where are you from? What do you do?"
For those that play blackjack part-time, it is important that you disguise yourself as the Average-Joe. For example, I don't want them to know that I am a mathematician, doctor, or whatever, since certain occupations may reveal that I truly have a lot of money and essentially, I am not an idiot. I want to make them feel that I am a true gambler and not a player with an advantage. After a while, the persona of a tourist wanting to win big diminishes. They recognize your face and realize you are a regular. They ask you to sign up for their card, etc. I guess the best way to go is not going to that particular casino for a couple months until they forget you. The cycle continues.
Any thoughts? Has this ever been a question that has concerned you? Have you even physically dressed yourself differently to create a different you?
Quote: BlackjackGambitI'm curious to know what you say to dealers and pit bosses when they want to know more about you?
- Do you tell them the truth or lie?
The most frequent introductory questions asked are:
"So where are you from? What do you do?"
For those that play blackjack part-time, it is important that you disguise yourself as the Average-Joe. For example, I don't want them to know that I am a mathematician, doctor, or whatever, since certain occupations may reveal that I truly have a lot of money and essentially, I am not an idiot. I want to make them feel that I am a true gambler and not a player with an advantage. After a while, the persona of a tourist wanting to win big diminishes. They recognize your face and realize you are a regular. They ask you to sign up for their card, etc. I guess the best way to go is not going to that particular casino for a couple months until they forget you. The cycle continues.
Any thoughts? Has this ever been a question that has concerned you? Have you even physically dressed yourself differently to create a different you?
I tell them the truth.
You want them to know that you have a lot of money!! Otherwise your big bets look strange. I have a good job where I make good money, and I like to go to Vegas and gamble for my vacations. Why is that unbelievable? This is the average mid-level bettor at a nice strip hotel.
What am I gonna do? Tell the guy that I work at McDonald's for minimum wage, and then buy in for a few thousand and start betting stacks of black?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI tell them the truth.
You want them to know that you have a lot of money!! Otherwise your big bets look strange. I have a good job where I make good money, and I like to go to Vegas and gamble for my vacations. Why is that unbelievable? This is the average mid-level bettor at a nice strip hotel.
What am I gonna do? Tell the guy that I work at McDonald's for minimum wage, and then buy in for a few thousand and start betting stacks of black?
Good point. It works well for you since you are truly gambling on your vacation time. You blend with the flock of players and the employees will have a difficult time remembering you. In those occasional scenarios where I go to the strip and bet high-limit, I, too, simply tell the truth.
Is there a casino that you visit more than 2x a week?
My definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit.
Quote: BlackjackGambitGood point. It works well for you since you are truly gambling on your vacation time. You blend with the flock of players and the employees will have a difficult time remembering you. In those occasional scenarios where I go to the strip and bet high-limit, I, too, simply tell the truth.
Is there a casino that you visit more than 2x a week?
Yeah, there is now. I am still betting too big for me not to have a good job (although, no one has asked yet).
I think I just come across as a guy with a good job and too much disposable income. Which isn't far from the truth.
The bottom line is, if you're going to bet big (or even medium) you can't tell them that you work some low-end job. If you're a doctor, tell them that you are a doctor. What's wrong with that?
Bring in a buddy with you to count cards, both of you wear bright pink shirts, hold hands and kiss a lot at the table. Make huge bet spreads. When they try to kick you out, yell, IT's because we are GAY! Then claim they are just kicking you out because you are gay, then sue.Quote: BlackjackGambitI'm curious to know what you say to dealers and pit bosses when they want to know more about you?
- Do you tell them the truth or lie?
The most frequent introductory questions asked are:
"So where are you from? What do you do?"
For those that play blackjack part-time, it is important that you disguise yourself as the Average-Joe. For example, I don't want them to know that I am a mathematician, doctor, or whatever, since certain occupations may reveal that I truly have a lot of money and essentially, I am not an idiot. I want to make them feel that I am a true gambler and not a player with an advantage. After a while, the persona of a tourist wanting to win big diminishes. They recognize your face and realize you are a regular. They ask you to sign up for their card, etc. I guess the best way to go is not going to that particular casino for a couple months until they forget you. The cycle continues.
Any thoughts? Has this ever been a question that has concerned you? Have you even physically dressed yourself differently to create a different you?
PS. rent DJatc's Mazda Miata and valet it
Quote: BlackjackGambitMy definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit.
Well that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Assuming you are saying "easy $1000/month profit." Otherwise I don't know what you're saying.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, there is now. I am still betting too big for me not to have a good job (although, no one has asked yet).
I think I just come across as a guy with a good job and too much disposable income. Which isn't far from the truth.
The bottom line is, if you're going to bet big (or even medium) you can't tell them that you work some low-end job. If you're a doctor, tell them that you are a doctor. What's wrong with that?
Telling casinos I have a good job (bankroll), play good blackjack, and take their money regularly doesn't bode well for the casinos that I visit. I have reached a point where I have been backed-off and the facade of a tourist is gone. The regular is here and his presence is not welcomed.
Most casinos off strip attract locals because they have fairly good double deck games. Station Casinos have low minimums and don't attract hoards of tourists like the strip. It's great to play off-strip because having an uninterrupted one-on-one game is common. The demographic and play is easily recognizable for those that play locally.
Quote: AxelWolfBring in a buddy with you to count cards, both of you wear bright pink shirts, hold hands and kiss a lot at the table. Make huge bet spreads. When they try to kick you out, yell, IT's because we are GAY! Then claim they are just kicking you out because you are gay, then sue.
PS. rent DJatc's Mazda Miata and valet it
That would probably be really effective here in CA
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: BlackjackGambitMy definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit.
Well that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Assuming you are saying "easy $1000/month profit." Otherwise I don't know what you're saying.
250x4= $1000.
A casino here is as close and common as a grocery store.
The subject is not how much I profit. That is just how I have been playing my part-time game. part-time blackjack is subjective. Are you searching for an explanation to win "Easy $1000/mo" so you can do it too? haha
Quote: AcesAndEightsQuote: BlackjackGambitMy definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit.
Well that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Assuming you are saying "easy $1000/month profit." Otherwise I don't know what you're saying.
Yeah, you can make "easy $1000" worth EV in a month but you can be down 10K. It seems easy when you are lucky but it is never easy in reality.
Quote: BlackjackGambitTelling casinos I have a good job (bankroll), play good blackjack, and take their money regularly doesn't bode well for the casinos that I visit. I have reached a point where I have been backed-off and the facade of a tourist is gone. The regular is here and his presence is not welcomed.
If you win enough you will eventually get backed off. I don't think it matters what you do for a living.
Quote:Most casinos off strip attract locals because they have fairly good double deck games. Station Casinos have low minimums and don't attract hoards of tourists like the strip. It's great to play off-strip because having an uninterrupted one-on-one game is common. The demographic and play is easily recognizable for those that play locally.
I dunno. If you show up, play blackjack only, win most of the time, and leave, you are going to get backed off. They are not complete idiots.
Honestly, I have never gotten even a little bit of heat. But, maybe I'm just not a good enough player. Or maybe I'm too clueless to recognize heat. (I am completely serious here)
Quote: KickassQuote: AcesAndEightsQuote: BlackjackGambitMy definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit.
Well that's a pretty ridiculous statement. Assuming you are saying "easy $1000/month profit." Otherwise I don't know what you're saying.
Yeah, you can make "easy $1000" worth EV in a month but you can be down 10K. It seems easy when you are lucky but it is never easy in reality.
Yea, you can be down 10K, but not me. I guess I have been consistently lucky for the past 2 years in LV. I should quit while I am ahead. Haha. Jokes aside, save the EV for another discussion. I don't have to prove my reality because $1000/mo blackjack earnings, to me, is "chump change" to what I make in my profession.
Quote: BlackjackGambitYea, you can be down 10K, but not me. I guess I have been consistently lucky for the past 2 years in LV. I should quit while I am ahead. Haha. Jokes aside, save the EV for another discussion. I don't have to prove my reality because $1000/mo blackjack earnings, to me, is "chump change" to what I make in my profession.
I believe what you said and you should never quit when you have an edge. I agree that earning 1k in a month is not much but don't you feel bored to win the "chump change" from the casinos?
Quote: AxelWolfBring in a buddy with you to count cards, both of you wear bright pink shirts, hold hands and kiss a lot at the table. Make huge bet spreads. When they try to kick you out, yell, IT's because we are GAY! Then claim they are just kicking you out because you are gay, then sue.
PS. rent DJatc's Mazda Miata and valet it
They will not 86 you. Instead a host will deliver a hand written note to join Louie Anderson in the honeymoon suite.
And now what do you do ? ? ?
Quote: KickassI believe what you said and you should never quit when you have an edge. I agree that earning 1k in a month is not much but don't you feel bored to win the "chump change" from the casinos?
Thanks! But saying that I was going to quit was sarcasm. haha. I do play high limit. That's when playing on certain strip casinos can be beneficial. My quote got fragmented.
"My definition of part time is playing at various casinos 2-3x/wk where $250/wk is a limit. Easy $1000 a month. Short sessions. Not considering vacation, family, special occasions where I would bet higher limit."
Quote: KickassBlackjackGambit, you should never set a win limit. Soon or later the casinos will back you off anyways only because you are a consistent winner. You should read "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Ian Andersen. It basically answers everything that you asked.
Yeah, I was thinking that too. It really is a great book.
It talk about the importance of booking losing sessions sometimes. Just due to the expected variance, you will be down sometimes. Lose those 5 max bets at the end of the shoe? GREAT time to go home.
Quote: KickassBlackjackGambit, you should never set a win limit. Soon or later the casinos will back you off anyways only because you are a consistent winner. You should read "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas" by Ian Andersen. It basically answers everything that you asked.
I agree with you and it has already happened to me. I am in a period of disguise, hence the topic yet no one has really answered expect for a sarcastic gay crack. But Axiom, thank you for telling me your opinion on telling the truth.
The main reasons why I have a win limit
- significant other wants me home
- need to spend time with friends
- blackjack is not my life. just a hobby
Blackjack is so abundant in LV. It literally is a few minutes away from residential areas. Sometimes, I make $60 in 5min and a call it a day, other times it may take 1.5hours. But every time the dealer reshuffles, it's a new count. It makes no difference how long I play because it is a never-ending session, so to speak.
Quote: BlackjackGambitI agree with you and it has already happened to me. I am in a period of disguise, hence the topic yet no one has really answered expect for a sarcastic gay crack. But Axiom, thank you for telling me your opinion on telling the truth.
The main reasons why I have a win limit
- significant other wants me home
- need to spend time with friends
- blackjack is not my life. just a hobby
Blackjack is so abundant in LV. It literally is a few minutes away from residential areas. Sometimes, I make $60 in 5min and a call it a day, other times it may take 1.5hours. But every time the dealer reshuffles, it's a new count. It makes no difference how long I play because it is a never-ending session, so to speak.
Exactly! Since you know that it makes no difference when you stop, why not use it to your advantage for some free cover?
So, instead of quitting when you are up a certain amount, why not quit when you are down sometimes? Or after a certain amount of time? Obviously they record your wins and losses; when they look you up do you really want to be "that guy who wins every time"? Or would you rather be "that guy with some big wins and some big losses"?
The first looks like you are playing to win money, the 2nd looks like you are a regular gambler. When you win enough they will back you off anyway... the question is, how long until it gets to that point? Will you take $10k out of the casino or $50k or $100k before they say "no more"?
Also, since there are so many casinos to choose from, why do you do to the same place 2x/week? Are there enough good games that you can play as much as you want, and never go to the same one more than once every week or two? Or month?
KB1
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceExactly! Since you know that it makes no difference when you stop, why not use it to your advantage for some free cover?
So, instead of quitting when you are up a certain amount, why not quit when you are down sometimes? Or after a certain amount of time? Obviously they record your wins and losses; when they look you up do you really want to be "that guy who wins every time"? Or would you rather be "that guy with some big wins and some big losses"?
The first looks like you are playing to win money, the 2nd looks like you are a regular gambler. When you win enough they will back you off anyway... the question is, how long until it gets to that point? Will you take $10k out of the casino or $50k or $100k before they say "no more"?
Also, since there are so many casinos to choose from, why do you do to the same place 2x/week? Are there enough good games that you can play as much as you want, and never go to the same one more than once every week or two? Or month?
Of course! Timing is significant. After a while, I started asking casual questions about casino employee shifts. For example, at El Cortez, a blackjack dealer shift is 8pm-4am. Many are FT. So I just go on odd times to avoid seeing the same people.
Yes, there are a few times when I leave down. FEW.
When I enter a table game, I don't get a Player's card when they ask. If boss is persistent, then I leave. Although, I do have a a Player's card in their systems, I just never use it when playing blackjack. Just a way they cannot keep track of my play.
- Yes, there were strategies on loss rebates I am aware of.
Why do I play the same ones? haha.
- close proximity
- good rules
Yes, there are enough double deck. But good single deck in LV is scarce.
Quote: BuzzardWere you able to take those breast implants off your taxes as a professional player ?
No,I didn't sign up for Obama care and I already had man boobs.
But oh man did the waxing hurt!
KB1
Quote: BlackjackGambitOf course! Timing is significant. After a while, I started asking casual questions about casino employee shifts. For example, at El Cortez, a blackjack dealer shift is 8pm-4am. Many are FT. So I just go on odd times to avoid seeing the same people.
Yes, there are a few times when I leave down. FEW.
When I enter a table game, I don't get a Player's card when they ask. If boss is persistent, then I leave. Although, I do have a a Player's card in their systems, I just never use it when playing blackjack. Just a way they cannot keep track of my play.
- Yes, there were strategies on loss rebates I am aware of.
Why do I play the same ones? haha.
- close proximity
- good rules
Yes, there are enough double deck. But good single deck in LV is scarce.
Hmm... we have very different approaches.
I prefer to play with a card. If you refuse I think it looks suspicious. I've seen people playing at high limits who refuse a card... they are all anyone in the pit is talking about. Who is this guy? Why won't he give a card? Did we get his picture? I don't want to be the guy who the whole pit is discussing and calling security about. In this case, I also overheard the pit call the cage and tell them to ask the guy for ID when the guy cashed out, and photocopy it and send it over (no clue how legal that is...)
LOL!Quote: BuzzardInstead a host will deliver a hand written note to join Louie Anderson in the honeymoon suite.
Poor djatc, he's never gonna live down that Louie story. :D
Making it look like you are a local who enjoys playing recreationally at low house edge BJ games is a reasonable cover. Especially since you play some other stuff as well. You are not playing for long, so have a drink or two, look like you are blowing off steam, and having a good time.
Quote: endermikeI'm with Axiom. I would go ahead and play with a card and then try to rat-hole some of the chips. I can't really speak from the experience of someone playing as frequently as you are, but the rewards from playing with a card can easily add up. Since rooms have little value to you maybe the player's card value is much lower, but even getting an extra .1% over time is quite valuable (assuming you are happy to eat some meals/see some shows).
Making it look like you are a local who enjoys playing recreationally at low house edge BJ games is a reasonable cover. Especially since you play some other stuff as well. You are not playing for long, so have a drink or two, look like you are blowing off steam, and having a good time.
I play low limit tables. I buy-in average, $100, use chips I earned from past sessions, pocket winnings, and I never show all the chips on the table. I don't color up. I usually leave abruptly to avoid that, when the dealer is dealing cards. It's difficult to catch how much I leave with bc I don't have to go to the cashier every time I leave the casino.
Axiom, not often I come to alert bosses, but because of my routine occurrences, it has become a problem. I'm banned from a small local casino. A friend of mine was a pit boss with Boyd Gaming and they alert other casinos if you are insanely good. My session plays are harmless to the casino's daily goals.
Yes, Endermike, that is usual. Local discounts and knowing people that work in MGM gives me access to MLifeInsider, so I have no real incentive for a card.
I dont know dose he count cards? more importantly is he a good kisser?Quote: BuzzardThey will not 86 you. Instead a host will deliver a hand written note to join Louie Anderson in the honeymoon suite.
And now what do you do ? ? ?
Oh wait Id have to be real careful and watch my money. Djatc might spot us and get jealous, considering Asians always cheat.Quote: AxelWolfI dont know dose he count cards? more importantly is he a good kisser?
In all undercover work the rule is stick as close to the truth as possible.Quote: BlackjackGambitI'm curious to know what you say to dealers and pit bosses when they want to know more about you?
- Do you tell them the truth or lie?
>The most frequent introductory questions asked are:
>"So where are you from? What do you do?"
Perfectly reasonable sociable questions, not necessarily a prelude to "We think you might be a card counter".
Certainly you should have no hesitation.
If you are living in Vegas say so.... It can be "Recently moved here" or whatever. Or Living in Vegas until my settlement money runs out. They will think you've got a wad and your slowly losing it to them. No alarm bells so far.
Occupation; Import Export is often a good response. It tells people little since you could be President of your company or Peon in it.
You should have and use a players card. BIG red flag if you do not do it. No excuses. No evasions. Refusal is a red flag. Always.
Don't be hesitant to counter the questions with questions of your own. How about yourself? How long have you worked in a casino Do you like working in Vegas? These are normal responses of normal people.
Good luck.
Quote: FleaStiffOccupation; Import Export is often a good response. It tells people little since you could be President of your company or Peon in it.
Just don't say your company is named Vandelay Industries
Quote: wudgedJust don't say your company is named Vandelay Industries
That joke is too old for many of the dealers, and soon the floor personel.
Quote: FleaStiffYou should have and use a players card. BIG red flag if you do not do it. No excuses. No evasions. Refusal is a red flag. Always.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Quote: AcesAndEightsOnly a Sith deals in absolutes.
If you say that only a Sith does that, wouldn't that make your statement an absolute, and you, therefore, a Sith?
Quote: wudgedJust don't say your company is named Vandelay Industries
Tell them you are an architect.
Quote: Mission146If you say that only a Sith does that, wouldn't that make your statement an absolute, and you, therefore, a Sith?
Sure, you got me in a logical mistake. Actually, you got Obi-Wan :).
But the point I was making is that lots of players play without a card, and FleaStiff made it sound like an ABSOLUTE NO-NO. Sure it can be a red flag, but you have to consider what your name is worth. If you get barred and they have your name, it can be a lot worse for you. If you play short sessions, the red flag doesn't really mean much. Even if they initiate a skills check on you right from your buy-in because you are a refusal, you can be out of there after 30-45 minutes and one big bet cycle. Then the skills check will be too late.
I know anecdotally lots of pros who don't play with a card. Once you get to a certain betting level, it gets worse of course. At that point, your best play is probably to have an alias. I would bet that is how most of the really big players roll.
Quote: DealerSixA top hat and a cane!
I've always wanted to play during halloween, get dressed up in a costume that obscures my face, and just play ridiculously obviously. Like, jump-spreading 1x$100 to 2x$1000.
