Worst game EVER!
8 decks
H17
One card on split Aces
Can only split once (anything!)
No DAS
Can double anything (at least that...)
BJ pays 6:5
No surrender
50% pen
And to top it off: $1 fee per hand played.
Can you believe I won $20? I think the house edge is worse than roulette, even before the vig!!!
"Put the cut card in the middle so we have to shuffle all the time."
"Good idea. That should reduce the hold."
Quote: arcticfunYeah, sometimes you hear (well placed!) complaints about bad pen or bad rules. But take a load of this. Casino M8trix in San Jose:
8 decks
H17
One card on split Aces
Can only split once (anything!)
No DAS
Can double anything (at least that...)
BJ pays 6:5
No surrender
50% pen
And to top it off: $1 fee per hand played.
Can you believe I won $20? I think the house edge is worse than roulette, even before the vig!!!
LOL $1 fee literally made me laugh out loud. Why did you play this game?
Quote: arcticfunYeah - why did I play, right? was bored. saw the sign. went in. Hot waitresses (oh yeah, btw --- drinks had to be PAID FOR!!!!). They didn't have all the rules posted anywhere so it took a while to see how bad it really was. I mean, H17 and 6:5 and $1 vig were clear upfront. I figured I'd gamble for once. But I agree. not something to be done twice. I left, disgusted, when I won on split 9s that I could have split one more time and they said I couldn't.
That's a California thing - it's illegal to comp drinks here. My local Indian casino offers free beer and wine with their buffet but if you get a comp for the buffet then you have to pay for the free (well unlimited) beer and wine. Still a deal at $5 but not as good as free.
Quote: arcticfunYeah, sometimes you hear (well placed!) complaints about bad pen or bad rules. But take a load of this. Casino M8trix in San Jose:
8 decks
H17
One card on split Aces
Can only split once (anything!)
No DAS
Can double anything (at least that...)
BJ pays 6:5
No surrender
50% pen
And to top it off: $1 fee per hand played.
Can you believe I won $20? I think the house edge is worse than roulette, even before the vig!!!
There are much better blackjack games in the area, if you are willing to drive a bit and go to the Indian casinos.
Never play blackjack in CA in a non-indian casino. The commission is a killer, even if the other rules are good.
Quote: Deucekies2.197% realistic HE before the vigorish. Yowza.
Of course. It's 6:5. 6:5 adds about 1.4%. The rest of it (other than the commission) is relatively inconsequential.
Quote: DeucekiesHow do you calculate what the vigorish adds to it? You have to base it on certain bet sizes, I assume?
The vig adds the commission divided by the amount bet, since you always have to pay it (win or lose)
If you are betting $100/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 1%.
If you are betting $25/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 4%.
If you are playing $5/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 20%.
I haven't been to m8rix, but other casinos in this area charge 1% commission up to $3 or something like that. So if you are betting $200/hand you need to pay $2 commission.
This is a total rip-off. Just don't play. m8rix is particularly bad, they are clearly working with the "corporation" that banks the game, which is illegal in CA (they have to be separate). They even banned some people for banking the game, which is also illegal.
Note: with a house edge of over 2%, if they are charging you $3 to be banker, you can make money on your banked games if you are getting over $150 in action. Of course you also need to "stay in the game" which will cost you $1/hand plus whatever you lose on your bets. Still, if there's a lot of action (say, over $500 or $1000 per hand between all the other players) it's probably worth doing, until they ban you. At which point, you can complain.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe vig adds the commission divided by the amount bet, since you always have to pay it (win or lose)
If you are betting $100/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 1%.
If you are betting $25/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 4%.
If you are playing $5/hand and paying $1 per hand it adds 20%.
I haven't been to m8rix, but other casinos in this area charge 1% commission up to $3 or something like that. So if you are betting $200/hand you need to pay $2 commission.
This is a total rip-off. Just don't play. m8rix is particularly bad, they are clearly working with the "corporation" that banks the game, which is illegal in CA (they have to be separate). They even banned some people for banking the game, which is also illegal.
Note: with a house edge of over 2%, if they are charging you $3 to be banker, you can make money on your banked games if you are getting over $150 in action. Of course you also need to "stay in the game" which will cost you $1/hand plus whatever you lose on your bets. Still, if there's a lot of action (say, over $500 or $1000 per hand between all the other players) it's probably worth doing, until they ban you. At which point, you can complain.
When I asked the dealer wtf with the $1 fee, she said something about the establishment not owning the game or vice versa -- didn't get the details. Who bankrolls the games, and who gets paid the $1 fee? (btw, it was $1 for every bet of $100 or less. If you bet $101, you'd pay a vig of $2.)
Quote: arcticfunWhen I asked the dealer wtf with the $1 fee, she said something about the establishment not owning the game or vice versa -- didn't get the details. Who bankrolls the games, and who gets paid the $1 fee? (btw, it was $1 for every bet of $100 or less. If you bet $101, you'd pay a vig of $2.)
That is standard in CA.
The house is not allowed to bank the game. The game must be banked by the players.
Since players often don't want to bank the game, there is a "corporation" who will sit at 1st base and bank the game. However, everyone who is in the game has the right to bank it on their turn. If you bank, the corporation must play a hand (or they may not bank on their turn)
Surely you noticed the person sitting at 1st base with racks and racks of chips, and a sign that said "player/banker", and probably the limit that they were willing to bank for (maybe, $30,000, or something like that?)
I think that this is all due to the fact that, in California, gambling between individuals is the only type of gambling that's legal. So the players at the table my gamble among themselves. The house may charge a fee to run the game, but you can't gamble against them.
Indian casinos, due to a deal with the government, are allowed to run regular casinos (although they still must follow other CA gambling laws. Eg, the craps tables use cards -- dice may not be solely used to determine the outcome of a game). So, I'd suggest going to an Indian casino if you want to play blackjack (or any other casino game) in CA. If you are looking to play machines, be careful -- some Indian casinos have class II, and some have class III.
The only game I would play in a (non-Indian) CA cardroom is poker. Everything else is a scam, because you are paying two house edges -- the commission and the house edge built into the game.
You need a lot of action for banking to be profitable. You are paying $3 commission when you bank, and $1 commission when you don't bank. Even if you can bank half the hands, and with a 2% edge, you need $200 in action just to break even. To make it worth your while you probably want at least $400 in total action per hand. You can reduce this a bit if the players are truly terrible, but it's hard to make more than 1% EV worth of mistakes at blackjack (although the truly motivated can do it)
When banking, be sure to start discussions about whether 3rd base should take a hit to save the table, especially when they have a 14 and the dealer has a 6 showing.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt's illegal for them not to allow banking.
You need a lot of action for banking to be profitable. You are paying $3 commission when you bank, and $1 commission when you don't bank. Even if you can bank half the hands, and with a 2% edge, you need $200 in action just to break even. To make it worth your while you probably want at least $400 in total action per hand. You can reduce this a bit if the players are truly terrible, but it's hard to make more than 1% EV worth of mistakes at blackjack (although the truly motivated can do it)
When banking, be sure to start discussions about whether 3rd base should take a hit to save the table, especially when they have a 14 and the dealer has a 6 showing.
Yeah, it really depends on how much action you can get in this casino. The banking can be optimized a bit by wonging out any positive counts. Then bank at any negative running count.
