Explain this promotion to me please...

The River's Casino in Pittsburgh is advertising this blackjack promotion:
http://www.riverscasino.com/pittsburgh/promotions/10-hands-for-10-dollars-blackjack-challenge/
It says,
"$500 Prize Pool Guaranteed plus total buy-in money
• $10,000 in challenge chips
• Top 6 scorers win cash
• 10 hands of blackjack"

Someone explain this to me, I've had 1 glass of wine and having a 'blond' moment here.

Thanks.

It is kind of weird. I'm thinking you pay 10 bucks. You get yourself dealt 10 blackjack hands. Either all at once like a 10 seat table or 1 after another. Play your hands with no opponent. Your score is recorded such as 21 20 20 20 18 19 17 bust bust bust. Top 6 with best 10 hands win. House is guaranteeing at least 50 entries, if 48 enter, house throws in 20 for 500 prize pool. If more then 50 entries, prize pool over 500 with no rake. What gets me is , WTF are challenge chips? This is all a guess on my part.

Quote: terapined

It is kind of weird. I'm thinking you pay 10 bucks. You get yourself dealt 10 blackjack hands. Either all at once like a 10 seat table or 1 after another. Play your hands with no opponent. Your score is recorded such as 21 20 20 20 18 19 17 bust bust bust. Top 6 with best 10 hands win. House is guaranteeing at least 50 entries, if 48 enter, house throws in 20 for 500 prize pool. If more then 50 entries, prize pool over 500 with no rake. What gets me is , WTF are challenge chips? This is all a guess on my part.

I figured challenge chips were your tournament chips and you were trying to maximize those for the 10 hands.

Here's what I am thinking. You pay 10. They give you 10k in tournament chips. You sit at a table against a dealer. Either with other players with Tournament chips or cash players. You can bet your stack any way you want but are limited to 10 hands. After 10 hands, your chip count is recorded and hopefully you are in the top 6. Just a guess.

Quote: terapined

Here's what I am thinking. You pay 10. They give you 10k in tournament chips. You sit at a table against a dealer. Either with other players with Tournament chips or cash players. You can bet your stack any way you want but are limited to 10 hands. After 10 hands, your chip count is recorded and hopefully you are in the top 6. Just a guess.

This is pretty much the format of every BJ tournament I've ever played. Specifically, though, the statement $500 + total buy-in should mean that all of the $10 collected plus $500 from the casino should be awarded as cash prizes for however many players they decide to pay; might be a sliding scale of awards based on how many entrants they get as to how many places they award and how much money each place pays. It will likely be a table set aside for the tournament, though, played in rounds of 10 hands with other tournament players; I doubt they will mix real-money plays and tournament chips on a table.

Challenge chips will be weird-colored chips with specially marked values, no cash value. Likely you'll get a couple thousand in 100's, the rest in 500's and 1000's. There may also be a button/die determiner to decide who bets first, then that will rotate, because when you're competing against others, there's a strategic edge to betting your chips to last until the end and make the final if you're the last one to act.

Quote: beachbumbabs

This is pretty much the format of every BJ tournament I've ever played. Specifically, though, the statement $500 + total buy-in should mean that all of the $10 collected plus $500 from the casino should be awarded as cash prizes for however many players they decide to pay; might be a sliding scale of awards based on how many entrants they get as to how many places they award and how much money each place pays. It will likely be a table set aside for the tournament, though, played in rounds of 10 hands with other tournament players; I doubt they will mix real-money plays and tournament chips on a table.

Challenge chips will be weird-colored chips with specially marked values, no cash value. Likely you'll get a couple thousand in 100's, the rest in 500's and 1000's. There may also be a button/die determiner to decide who bets first, then that will rotate, because when you're competing against others, there's a strategic edge to betting your chips to last until the end and make the final if you're the last one to act.

yes it is just a blackjack tournament. It is a little different than a normal tournament whereas there is no rounds. You get dealt 10 hands and you have 10k in chips. If you put all chips on first hand and lose then you are out. It is a very quick dealt tournament. They put 7 people on a table and when all 10 hands or every one has busted they take the next 7 people. Whomever has the highest chip count wins.

There really is no competing with the table. Normal BJ tournaments have rounds and maybe only 1 or 2 people from each table move on. In this one, you play 1 10 hand round and best score after everyone has played wins. Strat is pretty much all in on first hand, if you win then either all in again or bet the original 10k to leave your first 10k if you lose. Rinse and repeat.

they also have this
http://www.riverscasino.com/pittsburgh/promotions/25-blackjack-tournament/
which is a normal BJ tournament.

Quote: beachbumbabs

This is pretty much the format of every BJ tournament I've ever played. Specifically, though, the statement $500 + total buy-in should mean that all of the $10 collected plus $500 from the casino should be awarded as cash prizes for however many players they decide to pay.

The way I read this, and its kind of deceiving, the casino is guaranteeing a minimum 500 prize pool. If say 48 enter, they throw in 20 to bring it up to 500. This is probably rare because casinos that run tournaments know about how many will show up and they set a guarantee lower then what they expect. Now lets say 70 show up. the "plus total buy in money" means no rake. casino does not make a penny which is a great deal in itself. All 700 goes to the winners, house gets no cut. great deal. House guaranteed 500, 70 show up, its plus all 200 for 700 total. Its one of those, attract them to the casino for this good fair deal and hopefully they stick around and play games where the house has an edge. No way is the casino going to add 500 from their side to add to the prize money. They have the expense of labor for this no profit promotion but it gets people into the door.
Its a great fair deal, no house rake. If I was there, I would play. fair odds, you against the field.

(edit add)
maybe I'm wrong, maybe house is throwing in 500, its not an outrageous amount. just would seem weird to do that for such a cheap 10 buck promotion.

Quote: terapined

(edit add)
maybe I'm wrong, maybe house is throwing in 500, its not an outrageous amount. just would seem weird to do that for such a cheap 10 buck promotion.

I don't think you're wrong, "$500 Guaranteed" usually means they will only bump up the total prizepool to a $500 minimum. I don't think they'll need to do that either. It's only $10.

I'm just reading the English as posted. However, I have seen a few tournaments where the house did guarantee an amount either without an entry fee, or with the pool in addition, so it's not out of the question either way. The nicest I saw was a Harrah's 50,000 tournament, invitation only, and no entry fee, about 12 years ago. I think there were 300 of us. I did not finish in the money. The prizes were given in black chips. The winner had a nice double rack of $20,000.

Thank you guys (and gals) for helping me with this. I figured it was tournament style but I have never played any kind of blackjack tournament so I wasn't sure.

Now on for strategy, someone mentioned you should go all in almost every hand? What about the splits and double downs? I think if I were to play I would bet a fourth of my chips every hand or maybe half the 8th, 9th, and 10th hands.

Seems like a fun promotion for $10.

drussell,

Any 10 hands is too short term to say there's one strategy that will win them all, at least IMO; in my experience (maybe 2 dozen tournaments, so not much) the winner typically ended up with 3-4x opening stakes. That could be a target for you, whether you hope to double up twice early and protect your winnings by betting minimums the rest of the way, play a progressive betting system (either positive or negative), or do something similar to what you suggest above. I tend to start around 1/5 to 1/8 of my available chips so I have some in reserve to work with on the first few hands, but I've only won two of these, and that approach suited the cards I had and the format of the tournament.

I'll leave it to more experienced tournament players to share winning strategies if they have them. (Edited to add) It sounds like GWAE has actually done this specific tournament; I didn't read it that way at first. You might ask him here or in PM's more about the details and strategies that are working on it.

Quote: drussell0208

The River's Casino in Pittsburgh is advertising this blackjack promotion:
http://www.riverscasino.com/pittsburgh/promotions/10-hands-for-10-dollars-blackjack-challenge/
It says,
"$500 Prize Pool Guaranteed plus total buy-in money
• $10,000 in challenge chips
• Top 6 scorers win cash
• 10 hands of blackjack"

Someone explain this to me, I've had 1 glass of wine and having a 'blond' moment here.

Thanks.

They actually did this for free once and the prize pool was higher. Every Thursday in May, I think it was. I did it once because I happened to be picking someone up at the airport on a Thursday, anyway. My strategy might have sucked, but if I remember correctly, I ended up in the money...but with such an amount that I knew it wouldn't hold. It was Top 5 or Top 6 and I was in the last cashing position with about two hours to go. My friend and I went to dinner, then I came back and looked at the board and knew I was out of it.

BIG TIP

If they are doing this the same way, you MUST know that the MAXIMUM bet is also $10,000. I went on a nice run my last five hands using a Modified Reverse Martingale (saving enough for one split/double) but then I couldn't bet more than $10,000 on the initial bet. I proceeded to win the last two hands of those five, Max Betting, pat nineteen on the next to last hand. I split sixes against a Seven (I think) on the last hand because simply winning the hand wouldn't have been enough. Perhaps doubling on 12 would have been better, but I didn't have time to think about it, had to make an abysmal play either way. Won both hands.

Anyway, keep in mind that the Maximum bet is 10K on the initial hand if you plan to Reverse Marty.

In terms of strategy, I'd save enough for one Split/Double, perhaps start with a bet of 5K and hope to get on a good run. My strategy was pretty bad on the first few hands, not betting enough, don't wish to discuss it. Had I been betting enough, I'd have never made it to ten hands, but that's beside the point.

Quote: terapined

It is kind of weird. I'm thinking you pay 10 bucks. You get yourself dealt 10 blackjack hands. Either all at once like a 10 seat table or 1 after another. Play your hands with no opponent. Your score is recorded such as 21 20 20 20 18 19 17 bust bust bust. Top 6 with best 10 hands win. House is guaranteeing at least 50 entries, if 48 enter, house throws in 20 for 500 prize pool. If more then 50 entries, prize pool over 500 with no rake. What gets me is , WTF are challenge chips? This is all a guess on my part.

The way they did it before, it was total chips accumulated. I'd imagine it is the same, it reads the same.

Quote: terapined

Here's what I am thinking. You pay 10. They give you 10k in tournament chips. You sit at a table against a dealer. Either with other players with Tournament chips or cash players. You can bet your stack any way you want but are limited to 10 hands. After 10 hands, your chip count is recorded and hopefully you are in the top 6. Just a guess.

It was heads-up with the dealer when I did it. They had something like thirty tournament tables. More BJ Tables than I've ever seen at once.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Challenge chips will be weird-colored chips with specially marked values, no cash value. Likely you'll get a couple thousand in 100's, the rest in 500's and 1000's. There may also be a button/die determiner to decide who bets first, then that will rotate, because when you're competing against others, there's a strategic edge to betting your chips to last until the end and make the final if you're the last one to act.

A.) There were no $100 chips when I did it.

B.) It was heads-up.

C.) There is no advantage at all in trying to make it to the end, you must finish in the Top Six in total chips by the time it is over.

Quote: Mission146

They actually did this for free once and the prize pool was higher. Every Thursday in May, I think it was. I did it once because I happened to be picking someone up at the airport on a Thursday, anyway. My strategy might have sucked, but if I remember correctly, I ended up in the money...but with such an amount that I knew it wouldn't hold. It was Top 5 or Top 6 and I was in the last cashing position with about two hours to go. My friend and I went to dinner, then I came back and looked at the board and knew I was out of it.

BIG TIP


In terms of strategy, I'd save enough for one Split/Double, perhaps start with a bet of 5K and hope to get on a good run. My strategy was pretty bad on the first few hands, not betting enough, don't wish to discuss it. Had I been betting enough, I'd have never made it to ten hands, but that's beside the point.

Thanks for the tips! It's hard to make it out on a Thursday night but I might be going out that way this week or the next. Can you give me an estimate of how long the total event took?

Quote: drussell0208

Thank you guys (and gals) for helping me with this. I figured it was tournament style but I have never played any kind of blackjack tournament so I wasn't sure.

Now on for strategy, someone mentioned you should go all in almost every hand? What about the splits and double downs? I think if I were to play I would bet a fourth of my chips every hand or maybe half the 8th, 9th, and 10th hands.

Seems like a fun promotion for $10.

When you are playing a normal tournament where the top 1-3 from the table move on then you have to use a lot of thought on your betting. The thing with this type is the winners will be people who get lucky and double up 3 or 4 times. IMO if you only bet 1/4 stack then you will have a tough time accumulating enough chips to beat out the top 6.

I have wanted to play in it but I can't make it down there by 6 because that job thing gets in the way so I don't know how much the winners normally have.

Assuming there is a maximum bet of 10k.
Assuming the BJ win rate is 48%
Assuming there are 50 total attempts. There could be a lot more than this.
Using a binomial calculator a person will win 7 or more hands out of 10 about 14% of the time. This means in general 7 players will have at least a 4 net bet win or turn 10K into 50K

However, Blackjack has BJs, splits (opportunity to have more than 10 hands), double downs. I believe chances are very good that the top 6 players will have at least 50k.

I don't believe you have any time to piddle. I would bet max right from the start and keep after it until I had at least 60K.

If you are going to play this thing and scores are posted so that you know what to shoot for, I would wait until towards the end of the time period of the tournament, before taking a whack at it. I would have a tendency to split 10's at a minimum against low cards. If wasn't close to my goal by 5 hands I would probably be doubling at least 12,13 against low cards.

Quote: drussell0208

Thanks for the tips! It's hard to make it out on a Thursday night but I might be going out that way this week or the next. Can you give me an estimate of how long the total event took?

It was scheduled when I did it, and you had to be present to win. It was scheduled for either 6p-9p or 5p-9p, forget which. Probably a half hour after that for the last people to sign up to finish, I would guess.

So I took a walk down to the casino tonight to play the tournament. I am posting from phone so sorry if this message gets unreadable. It runs from 6 till 8 I think. You stand in line and pay your 10 dollars. They used the bj pit by the front door. Maybe 12 tables. You play heads up against the dealer. You get 10k in chips. Min bet is 500 and max bet is 10k. I asked about the prize pool and was told the casino starts it with 500 and 100% of all buy ins go on top of that. They have a board that shows you what the current last paying spot is but they wont tell you any of the other positions are so I guess best strat would be play in last 5 or 10 min. When I played there was 40 min left and last paying spot was 50k. Oh and they use CSM.

I lost on my 2nd hand. Here is how my tourney went.
Hand 1. Bet 5k and was dealt a 19 and it held up.
Hand 2. Bet 5k, deal Q K against 2. So I split and got another face card. I ended up with

Q28
K27
Kk

Dealer had 2T9. FML

Just an FYI. I heard an announcement promoting this tournament, and they explicitly said that the prize pool was $500 + 100% of the entry fees. The language was very unambiguous. So they're kicking in $500, making this +EV for anyone with a brain.

Thanks for all the information!! Does anyone know about how many people are usually there?

Quote: drussell0208

Thanks for all the information!! Does anyone know about how many people are usually there?

Since I was only there 1 time for it I can't say for sure. However pretty much during the entire time there was at least 6 tables going but never a line for sign ups.