Stand on 3 card 16 vs ...

Sorry I'm still a bit new so this might sound really silly. I've been playing the practice game based off of the basic strategy card for a while now and I only just found out that it's better to stand on a 3 card 16 vs a dealer's 10.

My question is if it is better to stand or hit if you have a 3/4/5 card 16 vs a 7, 8, 9, A. I understand the difference between hitting and standing is really really small but I guess it makes a little bit of a difference in the long run.

Also does it make a difference if it's a soft instead of a hard 3/4/5 card 16 against a 10? You would still hit in that case right?

EDIT: Nevermind! Wizard goes through all this thoroughly already in the appendices on the blackjack page.

In general the stand-on-3+-card 16 rule applies only to a 10 upcard (and obviously you always stand on hard 16 vs. a low upcard). There may be a few obscure composition-dependent exceptions for the other upcards (especially in pitch games) but in general unless you're counting you'd always hit 16 vs. 7-9 or A.

You'd NEVER stand on a soft 16 regardless of the dealer's upcard (unless the next card to be dealt has been flashed and it would be better for the dealer to get it). You can't bust or weaken such a hand by taking another card. (For soft hands you'd have to have at least 18 to think about standing, and even with a soft 18 there are cases you'd still hit or double.)

Here are the links for anyone wondering:

Single Deck - https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/3c/

Double Deck - https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/3b/

Of note is this snippet from the Double Deck link:

Quote:

The following lists will show exactly how to play your cards immediately after a shuffle in a double deck game where the dealer stands on a soft 17.

It states "immediately after a shuffle".

My question would be how to play this into the deck with no advantage play? Continue standing on a 3-card 16 vs 10 up?

Quote: DealerSix

It states "immediately after a shuffle".

My question would be how to play this into the deck with no advantage play? Continue standing on a 3-card 16 vs 10 up?

Yes, if you aren't counting at all, you would need to assume the count is zero. And when you have a 3-card hard 16, this would create a positive count which means you should stand. Now if you would bother to count, then you should hit when the count is negative (deck less rich in ten cards) and stand when the count is positive (deck more rich in ten cards).

Quote: Kellynbnf

There may be a few obscure composition-dependent exceptions for the other upcards (especially in pitch games) but in general unless you're counting you'd always hit 16 vs. 7-9 or A.

Wait, what? I thought that standing a 16 on 7-9 would be better than standing on the 10 since there's a better chance of the dealer bust, while your odds are relatively unchanged.

Quote: tringlomane

Yes, if you aren't counting at all, you would need to assume the count is zero. And when you have a 3-card hard 16, this would create a positive count which means you should stand. Now if you would bother to count, then you should hit when the count is negative (deck less rich in ten cards) and stand when the count is positive (deck more rich in ten cards).

Essentially, the Wizard's comment was made for AP's then? A BS player would continue on standing 3-card 16 vs 10, correct?

Quote: Venthus

Wait, what? I thought that standing a 16 on 7-9 would be better than standing on the 10 since there's a better chance of the dealer bust, while your odds are relatively unchanged.

Check out this link:

Blackjack Appendix 9 — 2 Decks, Dealer Hits Soft 17 - https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/9/2dh17r4/

Quote: Venthus

Wait, what? I thought that standing a 16 on 7-9 would be better than standing on the 10 since there's a better chance of the dealer bust, while your odds are relatively unchanged.

I believe it's because the dealer makes some of their strongest hands with a ten up (lots of 20s), so you're better off just standing and praying for a bust (at least with a positive count) instead of trying to improve your hand with a hit. With the ten up, if you hit to 18, you aren't out of the woods yet. You'd be in much better shape if the dealer had a 7 up.

Quote: DealerSix

Essentially, the Wizard's comment was made for AP's then? A BS player would continue on standing 3-card 16 vs 10, correct?

Well, it's such a marginal play, the correct play depends on card composition of your hand given no other info, and he wanted to point that out since you can obviously realize how many cards exist in your own hand. A Basic Strategy player should hit two card hard 16s vs 10 and stand with 3+ card hard 16s vs 10.

Quote: tringlomane

Well, it's such a marginal play, the correct play depends on card composition of your hand given no other info, and he wanted to point that out since you can obviously realize how many cards exist in your own hand. A Basic Strategy player should hit two card hard 16s vs 10 and stand with 3+ card hard 16s vs 10.

Some refine that by advocating the rule of 45. This would have the player stay on three card 16s containing a 4 or a 5 while hitting all other combinations. This is for basic strategy players only and it is very, very close. A three card 16 against a seven is not close and should be hit without hesitation.

Quote: DealerSix

Here are the links for anyone wondering: Single Deck - https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/3c/

I'm no blackjack expert so when I started playing the IGT full pay video blackjack (100.03%) I had to go to a blackjack expert to get the strategy. It was single deck, first hand off. I gleaned the entire strategy from the Wizard's of Odd's compositional dependent blackjack strategy. Thanks, Shack! I made a lot of money at that game whenever I found good cashback.

As for those 16's versus a dealer ten, there are a lot of combinations. I used a simplified rule. A 16 containing a 6, with either a 6,7,8, or 9 was a hit. The rest of the combinations were a stand.