11 vs 10 hit
Quote: surrender88sDoes anyone, who takes blackjack seriously, hit instead of double down on an 11 vs 10? Perhaps if the count is low or if you have a large bet out with a high count?
There is an index number (negative number) for hitting 11 vs 10 rather than doubling, but I don't even know what it is. It probably isn't too extreme, maybe tc of -3 or -4. All I really know is that it is long past when I will have already exited the game. :-)
Now, a large bet with a high count? HELL NO, don't just hit! That is what you want. Very favorable situation.
Quote: surrender88s... if you have a large bet out with a high count?
This is an ideal situation, you should double that every time. If the bet is too large for your comfort to double, then the original bet was too large and you are overplaying your bankroll.
Quote: surrender88sDoes anyone, who takes blackjack seriously, hit instead of double down on an 11 vs 10? Perhaps if the count is low or if you have a large bet out with a high count?
Stupidity strikes again!!! Double down on dealer 10, regardless of any count is throwing away money without any Advantage Edge on your hand!
You may get away with that once in a while, but on long run??? Where is your advantage? What's the hurry, can't you wait for the weak Dealer's hand to double down???
It's not like I do it every time. When you're in the casino looking to make 50 bucks and you only have 120 or 12 units, losing a lower probability DD like 11 vs 10. I even hit 11 vs 9 from time to time. I've done very well in the past and I'm pretty strict on playing BS. And the way I learned is you get one card for a DD and 11 vs 9 or 10 is a DD play. So when I hit, I only take the one card.
I wouldn't want to be playing we me at the table either so I stick with one hand.
Quote: wrobersonI don't act based on what other will think, I play according to basic strategy. In this case, DD on 11 is the play. When you DD, you only get one card.
Didn't you just post that you sometimes will stay on a 12 vs 10 after not doubling when you were supposed to? Basic strategy is not a something thing.
Quote: CasinoraiderStupidity strikes again!!! Double down on dealer 10, regardless of any count is throwing away money without any Advantage Edge on your hand!
You may get away with that once in a while, but on long run??? Where is your advantage? What's the hurry, can't you wait for the weak Dealer's hand to double down???
It's bad enough when you insult a fellow member for asking a legitimate question and worse when you continue to post erroneous information. Doubling 11 vs 10 is the correct basic strategy.
Ironically you mentioned the long run and I'm glad you did. The long run is exactly where the gain from making this correct play will be realized.
Quote: CasinoraiderStupidity strikes again!!! Double down on dealer 10, regardless of any count is throwing away money without any Advantage Edge on your hand!
You may get away with that once in a while, but on long run??? Where is your advantage? What's the hurry, can't you wait for the weak Dealer's hand to double down???
Ploppy wisdom.
Will you accept this?
I thought I doubled down...
Quote: 1BBIt's bad enough when you insult a fellow member for asking a legitimate question and worse when you continue to post erroneous information. Doubling 11 vs 10 is the correct basic strategy.
Ironically you mentioned the long run and I'm glad you did. The long run is exactly where the gain from making this correct play will be realized.
I wasn't questioning the fellow member for asking a PERFECT and realistic question. Please read carefully and kindly understand the English!. It's the REPLY to the fellow member by the other so-called "expert" that was STUPID!!!
Quote: TorghattenI have never doubled on 11 vs 10. (Unless when backplaying)
But I have never played anything else than european BJ either.
Most sensible move!!!..not worth the doubling against dealer 10, no matter what you hold, Sir.
I was told once upon a time that my getting 3/2 on a BJ was an advantage. Gee, now I will feel better playing 6/5 Blackjack.
Quote: Buzzard" For those non counters, your only advantage in BJ comes from splitting and doubling down. "
I was told once upon a time that my getting 3/2 on a BJ was an advantage. Gee, now I will feel better playing 6/5 Blackjack.
SARC: These days, 6:5 Blackjack is pretty much the standard game. Also, more casinos are putting in those wonderful CSMs, which prevent players from "ruining the order of the cards" when they play wrong, or enter/exit mid-shoe.
Seriously, hitting 11 vs. 10 at negative may have an advantage if you hit again after receiving a low card. This will eat up cards during a negative count and get you to a neutral count (shuffle) sooner. Don't forget that when playing at a full table, making "wrong" plays may piss of other players. Pissed off players will leave the table, giving you more hands per shoe.
Quote: CasinoraiderMost sensible move!!!..not worth the doubling against dealer 10, no matter what you hold, Sir.
*facepalm*
Quote: nvr55xxSARC: These days, 6:5 Blackjack is pretty much the standard game. Also, more casinos are putting in those wonderful CSMs, which prevent players from "ruining the order of the cards" when they play wrong, or enter/exit mid-shoe.
Seriously, hitting 11 vs. 10 at negative may have an advantage if you hit again after receiving a low card. This will eat up cards during a negative count and get you to a neutral count (shuffle) sooner. Don't forget that when playing at a full table, making "wrong" plays may piss of other players. Pissed off players will leave the table, giving you more hands per shoe.
If you must play at full tables simply wong out of negative counts.
Quote: nvr55xxSARC: These days, 6:5 Blackjack is pretty much the standard game. Also, more casinos are putting in those wonderful CSMs, which prevent players from "ruining the order of the cards" when they play wrong, or enter/exit mid-shoe.
Seriously, hitting 11 vs. 10 at negative may have an advantage if you hit again after receiving a low card. This will eat up cards during a negative count and get you to a neutral count (shuffle) sooner. Don't forget that when playing at a full table, making "wrong" plays may piss of other players. Pissed off players will leave the table, giving you more hands per shoe.
I have never seen 6:5 BJ at any place I play nor do I ever play at CSMs.
Quote: TorghattenI have never doubled on 11 vs 10. (Unless when backplaying)
But I have never played anything else than european BJ either.
So what do you do at TC>=4?
Quote: AxelWolfI thought people played blackjack to either gamble or to make money. Since doubling 11 vs the dealers 10 covers both aspects, why wouldn't you do it? If you don't like money then don't do it. If you don't like to gamble(doubling down) why the hell you playing blackjack in the first place?
Same reason people play UTH and check their QQ?
Quote: winnawinnaI have never seen 6:5 BJ at any place I play nor do I ever play at CSMs.
Never play on the vegas strip then?
Quote: tringlomaneNever play on the vegas strip then?
I do not see a lot of 6:5 on the strip, other than the single deck games or the really, really low-limit stuff (like, the places that advertise that they have $5 blackjack all the time).
If you are willing to play at $15 minimum tables (maybe $25 on weekend nights) you can play 3:2 games, on the strip. If you are willing to play $50 or $100 minimum tables, you can find S17 too.
If you want to play for $5 per hand, then the strip is probably not the place for you. You will get better value for your money elsewhere.
Honestly, I don't think that this is unreasonable. A large casino can't deal a $5 game with a 0.6% house edge. No other table game has an edge anywhere near that low... If you want to play a good game with low limits, you need to go to a place that doesn't have much in the way of expenses.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceA large casino can't deal a $5 game with a 0.6% house edge. No other table game has an edge anywhere near that low...
You're giving players too much credit. I rarely see anybody in Vegas (or anywhere else, for that matter) play BJ correctly to get the HE down that low. In fact, the overwhelming majority of players don't know their a-- from a hole in the ground.
Quote: Beethoven9thYou're giving players too much credit. I rarely see anybody in Vegas (or anywhere else, for that matter) play BJ correctly. In fact, the overwhelming majority of players don't know their a-- from a hole in the ground.
Yeah, but even a bad blackjack player doesn't lose that much.
Your average-bad player will lose at a rate of maybe 1% or 1.5%. In other words, a bad blackjack player loses about as much as a good craps player. $5 craps would not exist either without the hardways or the C&E.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYeah, but even a bad blackjack player doesn't lose that much.
Your average-bad player will lose at a rate of maybe 1% or 1.5%.
I have no idea where you get that figure from. Plus, I'd question any study that tries to calculate the HE for people who don't play correctly. Plenty of those guys lose their shirts, too.
Quote: Beethoven9thI have no idea where you get that figure from. Plus, I'd question any study that tries to calculate the HE for people who don't play correctly.
Well, it's not hard to calculate. Look at the mistakes that people commonly make and figure out what the edge is using that strategy. I'm basing it on similar tables that I've seen in other books, and adjusting based on the play that I've seen (I've seen the number 1% thrown around a lot, but I think that's overly optimistic -- people play worse than that)
It's really, really hard to play with bigger than a 1.5% disadvantage unless you are trying. There aren't that many people who will split 10s, stand on 8, double down on 14, or hit a hard 18.
Standing on 16 vs 10, taking even money on your blackjack, misplaying your soft 18, and refusing to hit a 12 vs a 2 just aren't that expensive (either because the mistake itself is cheap, or because it doesn't come up often enough to cost you that much in the long run). It's not like a game like UTH, where if you refuse to 4x bet anything other than AA or KK you are giving up something stupid like 10%.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWell, it's not hard to calculate.
Sure, for one person it's easy to calculate when you know exactly how he/she plays, but for the 95%+ of BJ players whose play isn't exactly known, it's just an educated guess.
Getting back to the main point though, I don't deny that costs have gone up over the years for casinos and that they need to modify their games every now and then. I was just disputing that something as drastic as 6-5 BJ is justified today.
Quote: tringlomaneNever play on the vegas strip then?
No I have never been to Vegas yet. Im an east coaster so the games are good here for now although I am backoffed at a few stores.
Quote: AceTwoQuote: TorghattenI have never doubled on 11 vs 10. (Unless when backplaying)
But I have never played anything else than european BJ either.
So what do you do at TC>=4?
My casino use csm... :(
Quote: SonuvabishQuote: CasinoraiderQuote: TorghattenI have never doubled on 11 vs 10. (Unless when backplaying)
But I have never played anything else than european BJ either.
Most sensible move!!!..not worth the doubling against dealer 10, no matter what you hold, Sir.
Other than purposely attempting to lose, not doubling an 11 against a 10 is one of the most costly moves that anyone can make at the blackjack table because of the commonality of the hand. Never doubling will increase the house edge by about 20% from its base, making it clearly worse than never doubling an 11 against a 7. With all due respect, this is not sensible at all, it is just a common error.
Torghatten plays ENHC.
Quote: SonuvabishThanks for the warm welcome. I'm a weekend warrior AP and today I had my biggest win to date, after last week when I had my biggest win to date! Never had two in a row like that, and I have been at this awhile--I increased my bankroll by over 25% in 12 table hours. So I came home early and thought I'd try to connect with some APs, and relax a bit. Are there many APs on this site?
I said you had a great name and then I spelled it wrong. Sorry.
This is not an AP site but there are some APs here. A few are very talented and knowledgeable and not only in blackjack. This site has a diverse group of very smart people with interests ranging from politics to global warming to religion. We even have a member who posts videos of young women in various stages of undress, claiming to be one of them.
If you have a question on any subject there is a very good chance that one of the 4300 active members here will be able to answer it. Whether they would choose to is another thing.
