Frank, talk Speed Count!

Tell us about the inception of the concept for Speed Count, as well as the process by which it became a book.

Thanks in advance.

Dan Pronovost, a skinny Canadian who could eat Alberta without gaining weight, and Henry Tamburin (I'm sure you recognize his name) worked for three years on this counting system. Dan did the heavy lifting. He knew that on average players/dealers get approximately 2.7 cards per person per round. Working with that number (and it took a lot of work) Dan developed Speed Count. Three years of work. Countless millions of sims.

I was in Tunica doing a "Frank Scoblete's Gamblers Jamboree" and Henry was one of my speakers. I was in the beginning of Golden Touch at that time --- I don't even know if we had done a dice control class yet. Henry and I talked about Speed Count. He taught it to me --- the easiest counting system I ever learned --- and I played it for a little under a year. Some of my friends played it too. It worked; it was simple and I then proposed to Henry that we teach classes in it. I was not interested in a book at that time because we could make more money from the classes and keep this somewhat under wraps. (Books do not make the millions of dollars people think they do --- even if the author is highly successful.)

Speed Count is not as strong as Hi-Lo, maybe half give or take, but it is easier for players who just can't handle Hi-Lo. It has its own optimum basic strategy and betting ramps. I even had teams playing Speed Count for awhile too. What makes the count interesting is that it reverses normal card counting ideas that casinos have ingrained in their minds and that card counters have ingrained in their minds too. Simple example: Most card counters tend to prefer third base so they can see more cards before they make their plays. In Speed Count the preferred position is first base. The count is of hands, not individual cards as such. Example: if a dealer were to drop a low card to the felt and then burn it, the traditional counter would count that card; not so with Speed Count as that card is not a part of a hand.

Then someone published his own version of Speed Count --- long after we were doing classes. Henry and Dan felt we should get a book out. I was not for it; they were. But Henry and Dan created Speed Count; Dan's genius allowed us to have such a great system. I went along with it. The first book on Speed Count was "Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution." I didn't particularly care all that much for the book because it was a rushed job. When I signed my contract with Triumph Books of Random House, I pushed doing a complete blackjack book --- and allowing "Golden Touch Blackjack Revolution" to go out of print.

That new blackjack book is "Beat Blackjack Now: The Easiest Way to Get the Edge." It is a complete book for the average blackjack player, the new card counter, the basic strategy player who has tried to count cards but can't handle the Hi-Lo, and for those who just want good basic strategies. I also have some great (no humility here) stories of my experiences playing the game.

In a nutshell and to the best of my memory, that is a short history of Speed Count.

Hey Grandma If you cant pass the drivers test at normal posted speeds we have a special half speed test just for you. If you can't handle a high low system you have no business counting cards period. Perhaps there is a book called speed toss for crappy dice controllers.

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Frank:

A forum member here, aceofspades, uses Speed Count playing Atlantic City 6 deck games with 70% penetration and no mid shoe entry. His weekend trip bankroll is $10,000 and he plays $100 tables spreading to $500. He is treated well by the casino, receives no heat and has even posted photos and updates from the blackjack table to this forum. For 2011 he says his win rate was almost $1000 an hour playing under these conditions. After 2011 he was not so successful. You can read his posts here if you desire.

He is an intelligent person quite capable of learning a stronger count but is happy with Speed Count. With that in mind what advice can you offer him or anyone else to get the most out of it? The areas of concern would be bankroll, betting spread and basic strategy deviations. Also of concern is negative shoes as wonging is difficult. He is not willing to drop his base bet to increase his spread.

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I think it's great to have Frank posting here. After all, the Wiz endorsed the original Speed Count book, and later contributed two chapters to the later version of the speed count book, "Beat Blackjack Now."

I'm using KISS 3 now, but have to admit Speed Count was just more fun. I second 1BB's post requesting any advice on improving it's implementation. Thanks.
--Joe

For what it's worth, regardless of what people may think of dice influencing, I think Frank is a brilliant man and a class act all around. I'm extremely glad to have him here.

Quote: Mission146

For what it's worth, regardless of what people may think of dice influencing, I think Frank is a brilliant man and a class act all around. I'm extremely glad to have him here.

Quote: 1BB

Frank:

A forum member here, aceofspades, uses Speed Count playing Atlantic City 6 deck games with 70% penetration and no mid shoe entry. His weekend trip bankroll is $10,000 and he plays $100 tables spreading to $500. He is treated well by the casino, receives no heat and has even posted photos and updates from the blackjack table to this forum. For 2011 he says his win rate was almost $1000 an hour playing under these conditions. After 2011 he was not so successful. You can read his posts here if you desire.

He is an intelligent person quite capable of learning a stronger count but is happy with Speed Count. With that in mind what advice can you offer him or anyone else to get the most out of it? The areas of concern would be bankroll, betting spread and basic strategy deviations. Also of concern is negative shoes as wonging is difficult. He is not willing to drop his base bet to increase his spread.

That is obviously just variance. There is no way 1000 dollars an hour is a sustainable win rate for almost any system or realistic circumstance....

Honestly, IMO, the speed count is a waste of time. This is just an opinion, I guess, and I've never actually tried it... but it seems more complicated than Hi-lo to me... I guess different people would think differently.... but if you can't do Hi-lo or at least an unbalanced system like KO then don't count unless you're just in it for fun.

I can almost assure that Aceofspades isn't actually a winning player... at least not by much.... I guess I don't actually know, and if the games he's playing have great rules he might be slightly better than breakeven.... but a 100-500 spread with speed count can't possibly win at a rate higher than a few bucks an hour.... If not slightly losing. I'm sure comps and stuff make it +EV but I wouldn't want to exchange that little EV for that much variance....

Think about it. If most Hi-Lo players with a spread of around 1-12 only have about a 1% edge at best.... Half the effectiveness would basically be useless. An edge of less than .5% certainly isn't worth the extreme variance that counting puts in a bankroll.

That's my 2 cents. I guess it's fine if you want to do better than Basic Strategy, (and it obviously is better than basic strategy) if you want to just have fun and can't seem to get a hang of traditional card counting systems.... or if it somehow prevents heat... I wouldn't expect to be a long term winner with the Speed count. You probably could be - but by so little I wouldn't say it's worth it unless you find it more fun than basic strategy...