No More Blackjack Sir
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:19:17 PM
permalink
Some suit tapped me on the shoulder today "No more blackjack sir, thanks for coming in, have a nice day."
A little background:
I'm an amateur counter, and I use my home casino as a practice facility only. The rules suck (8d, no LS),
so I employ a small spread and play a break even game. I am no threat to them at all. I have NO edge.
When I go to Vegas I will spread 1-20 for small stakes with little or no heat,
but at my home casino I just practice. Why the hell would they back me off?
I did not follow the advice I have received from experienced counters- to leave quickly and quietly.
I talked with the guy for a few minutes, asking what I did wrong? I asked if I was accused of cheating?
I even showed my strategy card and asked if using one was illegal? Basically, I was trying to play dumb.
I should have left quickly and quietly, but my emotions got the best of me.
Now what? When should I return? And how should I return? I'm pissed off,
and would like to take their money instead of just practicing? The penetration is good
and I could make money backcounting, betting aggressively, but I could get away with it?
Not sure where to go from here.......thanks
A little background:
I'm an amateur counter, and I use my home casino as a practice facility only. The rules suck (8d, no LS),
so I employ a small spread and play a break even game. I am no threat to them at all. I have NO edge.
When I go to Vegas I will spread 1-20 for small stakes with little or no heat,
but at my home casino I just practice. Why the hell would they back me off?
I did not follow the advice I have received from experienced counters- to leave quickly and quietly.
I talked with the guy for a few minutes, asking what I did wrong? I asked if I was accused of cheating?
I even showed my strategy card and asked if using one was illegal? Basically, I was trying to play dumb.
I should have left quickly and quietly, but my emotions got the best of me.
Now what? When should I return? And how should I return? I'm pissed off,
and would like to take their money instead of just practicing? The penetration is good
and I could make money backcounting, betting aggressively, but I could get away with it?
Not sure where to go from here.......thanks
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:24:37 PM
permalink
It depends how well they know you.If you usually played on a particular shift you might be able to play on a different shift in a few weeks.If they know you well on all shifts you might have to stay away for a long time, a year or more,unless you can change your appearance.
Happy days are here again
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:26:47 PM
permalink
Quote: MakingBook
Not sure where to go from here.......thanks
They obviously saw you were counting and have
a no counters policy. You're basically screwed
now because they're onto you and the suit who
caught you will not let you play and if he's a real
prick has already told his boss about you and now
all the suits will know.
They don't know you're only practicing. You should
have just played perfect BJ with the card and bet
the count in your head. The result would have
been the same.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:29:42 PM
permalink
How far is it to the next-closest local casino? Could you handle it if you were banned from your home casino?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:36:59 PM
permalink
Quote: HunterhillIt depends how well they know you..
I would think they noticed you before and have been
watching your play. When they confirmed you were
counting, they took action. If this is true, and it probably
is, you're really screwed. Casinos don't like to ban regular
players unless they're sure they're 'cheating'. The chances
of this suit just noticing your play today and kicking you
out are slim.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:48:59 PM
permalink
This guy is dead in the water. I'm assuming home casino meant he frequented the place. His only hope is to stay away for a year.
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:54:35 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobCasinos don't like to ban regular
players unless they're sure they're 'cheating'. The chances
of this suit just noticing your play today and kicking you
out are slim.
Who got banned?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 22nd, 2013 at 2:59:23 PM
permalink
Quote: MakingBookSome suit tapped me on the shoulder today "No more blackjack sir, thanks for coming in, have a nice day."
A little background:
I'm an amateur counter, and I use my home casino as a practice facility only. The rules suck (8d, no LS),
so I employ a small spread and play a break even game. I am no threat to them at all. I have NO edge.
When I go to Vegas I will spread 1-20 for small stakes with little or no heat,
but at my home casino I just practice. Why the hell would they back me off?
I did not follow the advice I have received from experienced counters- to leave quickly and quietly.
I talked with the guy for a few minutes, asking what I did wrong? I asked if I was accused of cheating?
I even showed my strategy card and asked if using one was illegal? Basically, I was trying to play dumb.
I should have left quickly and quietly, but my emotions got the best of me.
Now what? When should I return? And how should I return? I'm pissed off,
and would like to take their money instead of just practicing? The penetration is good
and I could make money backcounting, betting aggressively, but I could get away with it?
Not sure where to go from here.......thanks
Were you playing rated? Lifetime win will do it.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:14:59 PM
permalink
Quote: rdw4potusWho got banned?
Banned from BJ. Wait and see.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:15:03 PM
permalink
Making Book- If I were the casino management ("the suit") I would ban you too. You yourself said the way you play it is a 'break even' game. Why would they let a player take up a seat if they would not expect to win money from that seat? As has been said numerous times, barring race, religion, gender, etc... they can ban you for no 'good' reason. They obviously know you are a counter and thus banned you. The fact that some vegas casinos are not as good at recognizing your counting is not your local casino's fault!
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:15:18 PM
permalink
come on down to jersey where they cannot do this to you
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:33:28 PM
permalink
Quote: 1BBWere you playing rated? Lifetime win will do it.
Play unrated. No lifetime win to speak of. It's a newly opened casino (4 months).
CVCX simulation rules/pen/spread = 0% edge, and my short-term results are in-line.
I keep records- my largest daily win/loss is +685/(-$490).
Today, I was +$67 when I was backed off.
I go there just to practice in between trips to Pennsylvania and Las Vegas.
"I am a man devoured by the passion for gambling." --Dostoevsky, 1871
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:39:54 PM
permalink
This casino boss obviously has too much time on his hands.
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:53:36 PM
permalink
Quote: EvenBobBanned from BJ. Wait and see.
EvenBob is dead. It's going to happen in the future. Might as well claim it's already happened.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
January 22nd, 2013 at 3:59:25 PM
permalink
Quote: BozThis casino boss obviously has too much time on his hands.
Small local casinos love to catch counters. I'm surprised
the suit didn't get his pic taken with him. Its all the buzz
in the breakroom now, did you hear so and so caught a
cheater?
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 22nd, 2013 at 7:54:25 PM
permalink
Quote: sodawatercome on down to jersey where they cannot do this to you
They can't do it in Missouri either, but Missouri's rules are generally poor enough (hit 17) that counting won't help you gain tons. I believe the worst they can do is shuffle at any time. This is also bad, but you're still welcome to play! :)
January 22nd, 2013 at 8:11:22 PM
permalink
So how did they know/suspect you were counting?
January 22nd, 2013 at 9:01:30 PM
permalink
Quote: NostronSo how did they know/suspect you were counting?
I was just about to ask that. He said he was using a small spread on a game with poor rules. I'd probably practice at home before playing there. Unless there's something that wasn't mentioned that casino should have been trying to make him happy rather than back him off.
MakingBook, did they ever hound you to get a players' card?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
January 22nd, 2013 at 9:08:59 PM
permalink
I suspect someone there in security has a Barney Fife syndrome. It is prevalent in most casinos.
For just short of 20 years, Colorado dealt from a 8 deck shoe with 2 decks behind the cut card. Or 6 deck with 2 not in play. And a long shuffle between shoes in most casinos.
The few double deck games often had a cut card at the 1 deck level or less.
The minimum bet during this time $5. The maximum bet $5. WTF were these people thinking ? ? ?
For just short of 20 years, Colorado dealt from a 8 deck shoe with 2 decks behind the cut card. Or 6 deck with 2 not in play. And a long shuffle between shoes in most casinos.
The few double deck games often had a cut card at the 1 deck level or less.
The minimum bet during this time $5. The maximum bet $5. WTF were these people thinking ? ? ?
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
January 22nd, 2013 at 9:31:05 PM
permalink
Quote: BuzzardThe minimum bet during this time $5. The maximum bet $5. WTF were these people thinking ? ? ?
They thought Wonging out could beat the game, obv...lol
January 23rd, 2013 at 9:42:23 PM
permalink
I feel you man, I got backed off from a similar local game. My edge wasn't 0%, but in actual dollars it was low, about a $5-$100 spread. Thankfully for me there are a lot of local mini-casinos around here. rdw asked, what's your next-closest home casino? I would go there if plausible to continue practicing. These little joints definitely can sweat what seems to us to be insignificant action.
I haven't been back to the place I was backed off and that was last summer (but I haven't been playing much at all lately). But I will probably give it a run in a few months. I was playing rated back then, I will (obvi) go without the card this time around.
I haven't been back to the place I was backed off and that was last summer (but I haven't been playing much at all lately). But I will probably give it a run in a few months. I was playing rated back then, I will (obvi) go without the card this time around.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
January 23rd, 2013 at 11:40:16 PM
permalink
Quote: MakingBook
Today, I was +$67 when I was backed off.
Oh man, they had your number. New casinos are
always looking for wise guys because they know
they're sitting ducks. Good luck ever getting to
play BJ in this joint again, they have your color
8x10 pic at every pit by now.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
January 24th, 2013 at 7:18:54 AM
permalink
Quote: BuzzardI suspect someone there in security has a Barney Fife syndrome. It is prevalent in most casinos.
For just short of 20 years, Colorado dealt from a 8 deck shoe with 2 decks behind the cut card. Or 6 deck with 2 not in play. And a long shuffle between shoes in most casinos.
The few double deck games often had a cut card at the 1 deck level or less.
The minimum bet during this time $5. The maximum bet $5. WTF were these people thinking ? ? ?
Pretty sure Colorado had/still has a law that says all bets must be $5. They've had to make some weird versions of games to abide by the law.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
January 24th, 2013 at 7:22:14 AM
permalink
Colorado went to $100 limit 2 years ago. Streak side bet and triple play were popular at $5. And Double Action was a trip. Actually patented as having 2 spots for each player. LOL
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
January 24th, 2013 at 11:08:16 AM
permalink
Quote: BuzzardColorado went to $100 limit 2 years ago. Streak side bet and triple play were popular at $5. And Double Action was a trip. Actually patented as having 2 spots for each player. LOL
Was it "Double Action"/"Second Action" i.e. one spot for the dealer's up card, one spot for the dealer's hole card? They have that side bet here in WA. But it would be funnier if it was just 2 spots for the same exact bet.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
January 24th, 2013 at 11:35:04 AM
permalink
Quote: AcesAndEightsWas it "Double Action"/"Second Action" i.e. one spot for the dealer's up card, one spot for the dealer's hole card? They have that side bet here in WA. But it would be funnier if it was just 2 spots for the same exact bet.
I would guess that its Multi-Action Blackjack, just with a different name.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
January 24th, 2013 at 2:38:48 PM
permalink
NO I told you it was two spots for each player. PERIOD a rectangular outline with a line in the middle making 2 squares,
You could bet 1 square and receive one hand or bet both squares and receive 2 hands.
Patent Info.
Method of playing double action blackjack
Abstract
A method of playing a blackjack game that will enable a blackjack player to make the second initial 21 wager and play the second initial hand on any deal of the cards. The layout of the table includes boxes on each player station where the wagers are placed, and card dealing areas next to each of the boxes where the hands of cards are dealt. The boxes and card dealing areas are spaced sufficiently far enough apart so that players are not deprived a place to place a "21" wager and play at the table. Furthermore, with this layout the dealer and player can clearly determine which cards belongs to the player's first wager and which cards belong to the player's second wager.
Evidently the examiner decided this was NOT obvious. The inventor collected a lot of royalties in Colorado.
It is not the Galaxy gaming Double Action Blackjack.
You could bet 1 square and receive one hand or bet both squares and receive 2 hands.
Patent Info.
Method of playing double action blackjack
Abstract
A method of playing a blackjack game that will enable a blackjack player to make the second initial 21 wager and play the second initial hand on any deal of the cards. The layout of the table includes boxes on each player station where the wagers are placed, and card dealing areas next to each of the boxes where the hands of cards are dealt. The boxes and card dealing areas are spaced sufficiently far enough apart so that players are not deprived a place to place a "21" wager and play at the table. Furthermore, with this layout the dealer and player can clearly determine which cards belongs to the player's first wager and which cards belong to the player's second wager.
Evidently the examiner decided this was NOT obvious. The inventor collected a lot of royalties in Colorado.
It is not the Galaxy gaming Double Action Blackjack.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
January 24th, 2013 at 2:47:57 PM
permalink
Quote: Buzzard...
It is not the Galaxy gaming Double Action Blackjack.
Gotcha, this is where I got confused. Patents can be silly, that's for sure.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
January 24th, 2013 at 2:51:33 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
January 24th, 2013 at 2:52:16 PM
permalink
Hey, somebody made some money. I loved the game because the Riviera had it as a $3 table for years. Playing 2 hands at $3 a hand.
Great way to kill time and practice counting. LOL
Great way to kill time and practice counting. LOL
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
January 24th, 2013 at 3:00:12 PM
permalink
Sounds like the BJ dealers had to work harder in Colorado back in the day. I would assume most players were playing 2 hands at $5/hand.
January 24th, 2013 at 3:03:34 PM
permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
January 24th, 2013 at 3:13:24 PM
permalink
Quote: tringlomaneSounds like the BJ dealers had to work harder in Colorado back in the day. I would assume most players were playing 2 hands at $5/hand.
Most would start at $3 on both hands. This was before TITO so players had dollar slugs to stack or fill up the mahogany inlay.
BJ dealers in Blackhawk were sloppy and informal beyond belief. Moving cards from on hand to another. I mean max was $5, what the hell, why not.
Was shilling for Stacey Perry as she demo'd her STREAK game at the Isle. Stacey remarked to an Asian girl dealing that she should places the cards so that the eye in the sky could see the pips. The girl had been dealing for over 2 years and actually said this :
" What are pips ? "
Colorado gaming is a trip too. Actually made the house tape a discard rack on Digital 21 table to comply with rules.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
