whatever61
whatever61
Joined: Jan 20, 2013
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January 20th, 2013 at 9:05:26 AM permalink
Hello all,

According to the Wizard of Odds website, the HE of Blackjack is: 0.28%
However, in this game we can affect the outcome, because we can decide on the action during the game.

On the site there's also a table that tells you what you should do in each case. Assuming I would follow this table and play ALWAYS same bet, would the HE be lower then?
In other words, based on 1 billion turns, would I be in an advantage on the casino or still in a disadvantage?

Thanks.
gameterror
gameterror
Joined: Jan 30, 2012
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January 20th, 2013 at 9:10:33 AM permalink
Quote: whatever61

Hello all,

According to the Wizard of Odds website, the HE of Blackjack is: 0.28%
However, in this game we can affect the outcome, because we can decide on the action during the game.

On the site there's also a table that tells you what you should do in each case. Assuming I would follow this table and play ALWAYS same bet, would the HE be lower then?
In other words, based on 1 billion turns, would I be in an advantage on the casino or still in a disadvantage?

Thanks.



hi whatever,

the HE listed is already assuming you are playing perfect basic strategy. it's the best you can do (without counting)

welcome to the forum!
Things have never been so swell I have never failed to fail
whatever61
whatever61
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:00:46 AM permalink
Thanks!

What about the HE in these cases:

1. If the player just STANDS above 16 and without split/double, which is sort of mimicking the dealer.
2. By using the basic strategy + basic cards counting (+1 for lows, -1 for highs).
3. By using the strongest combination of strategies in BJ.
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:04:59 AM permalink
You're still at a disadvantage. You can't beat BJ without perfect play, very strong counting ability, and liberal rules. Even then there's no guarantee of not losing your shirt and on the other hand, if the casino thinks you might have an advantage for any reason (or if they just don't like your shirt) they can simply ask you not to play. It's not like it was 40 years ago and even then it wasn't easy.

And by the way, #1 doesn't go at all with #3.
Happiness is underrated
whatever61
whatever61
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:11:03 AM permalink
The HE by using the BJ basic strategy alone is 0.28%, then according to what you're saying that you are still at disadvantage, that means that counting cards doesn't even reduce the HE by 0.28%?

"And by the way, #1 doesn't go at all with #3."

Of course it doesn't, it contradicts each other. My interest was to understand how much HE difference is between every type of play
gameterror
gameterror
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:11:53 AM permalink
1. from the Wizard of Odds site:
"Mimic the dealer: For my analysis of this strategy I assumed the player would always hit 16 or less and stand on17 or more, including a soft 17. The player never doubled or split, since the dealer is not allowed to do so. This "mimic the dealer" strategy results in a house edge of 5.48%."

2. still depends on penetration and spread that you can play.

3. ?? Not sure what you mean. There are a lot of techniques that can help you to lower the HE or even turn it into a player edge: counting, shuffle sequencing....hole carding and stuff.
Things have never been so swell I have never failed to fail
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:19:06 AM permalink
Quote: whatever61

Thanks!

What about the HE in these cases:

1. If the player just STANDS above 16 and without split/double, which is sort of mimicking the dealer.
2. By using the basic strategy + basic cards counting (+1 for lows, -1 for highs).
3. By using the strongest combination of strategies in BJ.



Welcome!

1. You would be at a huge disadvantage. Since if both you and the dealer bust, you lose, the only way to give yourself an advantage (or really minimize the house's advantage) is to take advantage of situations that favor you, like doubling or splitting. Also, surrender, when offered, allows you to lessen your losses when appropriate as dictated by basic strategy.

2. BS + card counting only works if you alter your bets depending upon the count. This requires a substantial bankroll, and the mental fortitude to withstand the inevitable swings from up to down and back again. It also requires practice. It also requires savvy, to not get banned by the casinos. There are a few members of this forum who do it, and you can read their exploits in various threads here.

3. This is defined as basic strategy. There are a few exceptions based upon what cards have already been played. Unless you are card counting and 'bet spreading', you still will be playing at an expected loss.
whatever61
whatever61
Joined: Jan 20, 2013
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:34:14 AM permalink
Quote: gameterror

1. from the Wizard of Odds site:
"Mimic the dealer: For my analysis of this strategy I assumed the player would always hit 16 or less and stand on17 or more, including a soft 17. The player never doubled or split, since the dealer is not allowed to do so. This "mimic the dealer" strategy results in a house edge of 5.48%."

2. still depends on penetration and spread that you can play.

3. ?? Not sure what you mean. There are a lot of techniques that can help you to lower the HE or even turn it into a player edge: counting, shuffle sequencing....hole carding and stuff.



1. Thanks! I somehow missed this one.
2. Thanks, just read about penetration and spread. Got this one.
3. I was just curious with the best strategy ever, assuming you have the ideal conditions (best spread, best rules and etc.). What is the maximum that you can get in bending the HE..
dwheatley
dwheatley
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January 21st, 2013 at 4:40:14 AM permalink
3) This depends on way too much, but I'll suggest a 1.5% advantage as something to aim for when counting.

If you can shuffle track, ace track or find a hole carding dealer, your advantage can be much higher.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
1BB
1BB
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January 21st, 2013 at 8:26:02 AM permalink
Quote: whatever61

Hello all,

According to the Wizard of Odds website, the HE of Blackjack is: 0.28%
However, in this game we can affect the outcome, because we can decide on the action during the game.

On the site there's also a table that tells you what you should do in each case. Assuming I would follow this table and play ALWAYS same bet, would the HE be lower then?
In other words, based on 1 billion turns, would I be in an advantage on the casino or still in a disadvantage?

Thanks.



To clarify, the house edge of blackjack is dependent on the rules of the game being offered. It can be anywhere between 0.20% or less all the way up to 1% so you can't make a blanket statement of 0.28%. The 0.28% game is about as good as it gets for shoe games. It is becoming increasingly scarce and is mostly offered at higher limits. It cannot be found in New Jersey or Connecticut for example although Connecticut is close.

If you play perfect basic strategy with zero mistakes you will lose an amount very close to the house edge over those 1 billion hands. For the 0.28% game you will lose 28 cents for every $100 wagered. In the meantime it will be one wild ride.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi

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