Shufflemaster TMS 300

I understand that the Shufflemaster has a 6 deck shoe that shuffles 2/3 of the way in. Does anyone know, though, when that shuffle occurs? I'd like to count versus this machine. It would be incredibly easier since, in PA, each shoe is separate from another person's, so I'd just be counting my own cards. However, I would need to know when the shoe is shuffled. Any help would be appreciated!

Quote: MIGambler

I understand that the Shufflemaster has a 6 deck shoe that shuffles 2/3 of the way in. Does anyone know, though, when that shuffle occurs? I'd like to count versus this machine. It would be incredibly easier since, in PA, each shoe is separate from another person's, so I'd just be counting my own cards. However, I would need to know when the shoe is shuffled. Any help would be appreciated!

What game are you playing? I've played Bacc and BJ at every casino in PA, and never from my own personal shoe...

It's the Shufflemaster TMS 300 Blackjack machine. Casino laws in PA require that all slot games (which the Shufflemaster is categorized under) have players operating independent of other player's outcome.

I think that is wrong. Gaming officials have said that, but the minutes of meetings said that a player could not be deprives of a slot
jackpot. The concern was due to the side bet, not the game itself.

Think about it, 2 players, First one goes bust. Second idiot hits 14 versus a 6. Now dealers has to take 3 cards to get a 20. Dealers cards will definetly be affected on next go-round.

It is my understanding that under this weird PA rule:

A - Each player and dealer has his own 6 (8?) deck shoe.
B - The dealer's hand is played out, behind the scenes, with those cards removed from each of the player's shoes, and then the player's shoes are shuffled.
C - The machine uses new shoes for every hand.


Most important:

D - This rule has been eliminated.


As I understand it, now the machine uses a single 6 (8?) deck shoe, but still reshuffles between every hand.

The machine definitely states "shuffles 2/3 of the way in" so I'm guessing that to be true.

Quote: MIGambler

The machine definitely states "shuffles 2/3 of the way in" so I'm guessing that to be true.

Why would you guess this to be true? Is there a 0% chance that the software/firmware was updated by a tech who didn't replace the wording on the cabinet?

Those machines can be set different ways.

Some of them say shuffled 2/3 thru (only 66% pen sucks anyway) and some of them say shuffled after every hand (CSM simulation). The wording on the cabinet MIGHT be changed correctly any time some technician flips the bit for one way or the other, but you can never know for sure that it's correct. The casino likely won't tell you, and it wouldn't be a good idea to ASK, and even if they did tell you, how do you know they are right?

So unfortunately these games are not really countable.

About the only thing they might be useful to a card counter for would be if you are teaching a friend how to count, you could both play on one of these together and track the cards COUNTING OUT LOUD as the game progresses, LOL. This isn't really "counting" however and you're playing at a -EV, but it's a simulation exercise of what "actually counting" on a real live game is like.

The virtual dealer on the screen can't hear you and couldn't care less that you're counting, but don't try this with a real live person dealing the cards :)

-DBJT

Here's what might be a dumb question.

Assume that it doesn't shuffle after every hand. Assume that it IS using a single shoe and reshuffles after a number of hands or some specific penetration.

Does the machine alert you WHEN it is shuffling? I.E. It only takes an instant to shuffle, so does it bother to display a "reshuffling" message when that happens?


My point is, without alerting you, when will you know to restart the count?

No, the Shufflemaster machine doesn't alert you. However, you don't need to know the exact shuffle point in order to use counting to increase your edge. (Whether you can increase it enough to make the game +EV or worthwhile is another matter)

How many hands per hour can you play on this machine?

Quote: duanedibley

How many hands per hour can you play on this machine?

In my experience, multiplayer electronic blackjack machines are painfully slow. Maybe 60 hands an hour.

I have no direct experience with a TMS 300, however.

I am very interested in this subject right now and was wondering if anyone here knew about this particular algorithm or could point me toward the transcript of the PA gaming control board where they were discussing this piece? ANY information will help. thanks