Blackjack VARIANT

Imagine you play a Blackjack variant where the dealer is allowed to stand on any total. The point is who is closer to 21, wins.

For example, if you stand on a 14 and the dealer make a 15, then he will stand and win.

If you got a 19 and the dealer have an 18, then the dealer will hit at least once. Pushes are ties.

The dealer will take the tie on a hard 15 and higher, and will hit for the win if the player has a lower stiff.

The dealer will also take the tie if he gets a soft 19 or a soft 20. On a soft 17 or soft 18 will hit for the win.

1deck, BJ pays 3 to 2, splits up to 3 times, double any total, double after split allowed, no insurance, dealer peeks for BJ.

Player BJ pushes dealer BJ, resplit aces allowed, surrender not available. Two card 21 after split pays 1 to1. Reshuffle each hand.

- Want to know what is the house edge for a game like this ? And what would be the basic strategy to approach to such a game ?

It sounds similar to https://wizardofodds.com/games/extreme-21/ but not quite the same.

The main difference in my example would be that on some hands the dealer will take the tie. But the strategy shouldnt change much ?

And the other main difference which I suspect make this actual variant a quite high +EV, is that a blackjack pays out 3 to 2.

But that again, should not change the basic strategy for that game. But on your link I am not able to find Extreme 21 basic strategy ?

EDIT: Sorry, I just clicked "page refresh" and the charts showed up :-) Anyway, so I should follow that basic strategy for this variant ?

You would also need to devise a dealer strategy as well and it could get quite complicated.

For example, 5 players at the table, 3 have 17, one has 18 and one has 19 - dealer has Ace, 6 ... do you hit or stand? Furthermore, what if 4 of the players are betting $25 each but the player on 19 has a $500 bet ... I know what I would do if I was the dealer.

Extreme 21 (although not the same) eliminated this 'House Way' by making the players play individually against the house - of course, that had it's drawbacks as it changed the dynamics of the regular game.

I have devised a game where the dealer cannot 'bust' ... not quite the same but at least the dealer has to play to a set strategy and the player has to be far more aggressive with hitting ... I'm hoping that eventually I will be able to devise a complete, workable variation using this rule.

Switch if you were the dealer you would stand so I could win $500 because your a swell guy :)

Hehe, don't tell me, we split the winnings up in the car park when Dan isn't looking :-)

Dang I didn't say anything about a split. I was just counting on you being a nice guy lol. See what money does to people.

PlayHunter, I have played the game you mention with play money only.
I have done some computations myself.
I might play ir for real money in the future, so I will not provide all the calculations I have done here.
You have already calculated the correct Dealer strategy against 1 player.
I have also calculated the Basic strategy for the player (1 player vs dealer) accurately except Split Decisions where I have done rough estimates.
Let me just say that the correct BS is to hit more stiffs v 2-6 and also Double less than normal BS strategy.

The Ev of the game (1 player vs Dealer) is atrocious, around 9% in favour of the dealer according to my calculations.
This shows how much EV the dealer gets from playing last without a fixed strategy.

I have also calculate correct strategy for Dealer (using estimates) for 2-4 players for Hard Hands only.
As a very rough guide (which you probably have figured out) if the value from standing is 0 or more you mostly stand (except for low dealer totals like 12)
If the value from standing is -1 or less you mostly hit (except for high dealer totals like 17).

It is not very difficult to get good estimates for when to hit Dealer Hard Totals versus many players Hands and find the tipping poiny where strategy changes from Stand to Hit.
The difficult part is to do it for Soft Hands. Like Players have 20,18,15 and Dealer S18.

Also, the most difficult part is to calculate correct Basic for the Player when many players play.
If you play last you have more information on how to act and the BS should change from the single player corect BS.
That's because the dealer will play to maximize against all the players.
Say the players have 12,13,14 and you are playing now with a S17 versus delear 5. I do not know the correct decision but it is probably correct to stand since if the dealer gets a 10 for 15 he will most probably stand.

There would be a lot of work to calculate the correct BS for the player in multi player situations and different positions. The calculations will also need to assume that the dealer plays optimally. If the dealer plays suboptimally, then the correct BS for the player also changes. So it becomes important to see how the opponents play when the act as dealer and adjust strategy accordingly.

The Ev of 9% that I mention for 1 player should be a lot lower when many players play.

Also comparing the game we are discussing against Extreme 21 analysed by Wizzard, note that in Extreme 21 it is allowed to Hit or redouble after a Double.
That's why there are so many double decisions in the BS for Extreme 21.
For the game we are discussing this is not the case, so the correct Doubles are very few.
The Hit v Stand BS decisions for the game discussed is very close to the BS for Extreme 21. There are only a small number of difference because of the Stand in a Tie situation when delaler has 15 and more.

This game is, IMO, essentially undealable mostly for the reasons Switch gave. Also, much harder for the players. The other night I had a player suggesting it would be fun for the dealer to essentially have free reign to play his hand, but I disagree and explained that then you wouldn't be able to make decisions with any reliability. You couldn't stand on your 14 against the dealer 6 with any confidence.

Also, as whimsically hinted, at the opportunity for collusion is huge.

As a dealer it would be much harder to get tips on this game and for that alone I wouldn't want to deal it. If you look at how table games work you'll see a common theme: the players make the decisions, the house doesn't, or when they do (as in bj) they follow a set formula which is predictable.

Thanks Ace ! Your post was really helpful to me, we will keep in touch. And about dealer 9% edge, yes I know I was wrong on my previous guessment. I misread rule number 8 from wizardofodds on Extreme21, players allowed to hit after double. - Not the case.