Advice for building a bankroll and two lessons learned (the hard way)

All,

New to the game as I am, I'm trying to build a bankroll with which I can take my play to a higher level. I started with $500 and, after one reload, have it up to around $1700. I've realized this won't cover much of a spread, and there's a lot of grinding in my future. Nevertheless, I'm curious to see if there are any suggestions on how to maximize what I'm doing at the moment.

The game i play is an e-table, 6d, 50% pen., dobule after split, no resplit, H17 and no surrender. (And yes, I know this game is far less than optimal. But it's what I have to work with). I'm using the unbalanced KISS III count, which calls for spreads of around 1-10. I know that's not sustainable for a limited bankroll like mine, even betting reds. My question is - how low of a spread can/should I employ - or is it even possible to get any "edge" betting less than max units?

And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.

Lesson two came a few weeks later, when I learned that if you triple your money QUIT! One lovely Friday evening I bought in for $500, and left with $1200. The next time I played I bought in for $500, and ran that sucker up to $1500 in about 90 minutes. I was suddenly surprised by my lack of self-control - the ploppy gland was working overtime. I found myself thinking "This is an ATM!". I started betting table max whenever the count was up, even a little. BANG! Three big losses and I'm down to a grand. That's OK, I said, I've at least doubled my money. I kept grinding, and it kept sucking me down, until I had around $125 left. I was able to recover and leave with a $100 win, but all I can think about is the $900 I blew.

With the poor rules and penetration that you describe you'll need a 1-20 spread and a bankroll of at least $10,000. You will also need to employ index play and wonging.

I wouldn't play that game but if forced to I would not be comfortable with a bankroll of less than $20,000.

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A 50% pen is unplayable. I hate to say it but I would save up some money and take a trip to Vegas

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And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.

BTW that variance does happen of losing 5 in a row is not that uncommon. I've had it happen to me. The only thing you can say is since the count is up then you have to put the money down. Also, in my opinion, I would go with HiLo since you are starting out. I know the EV will not be as much but the I think it is more stable with less risk; from what I have seen anyways. Also, if you start to panic get away from the table!! Doesn't make any difference how much you have won/lost. Just get up and leave! It was hard for me too but to get up and leave, very coldly, is very tough to do. But you have to do it.

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And here's where I get to lesson number one - you can't rely on luck to make up for a bad string. I was doing well one day, up a few hundred, and the count was good. I started putting out big (for me) bets - $75 on a $5 table. Five in a row went kerflooie before the shoe ended. Next shoe, I panicked and tried to win it back just as quickly without regard to logic, reason or the count. (I call it plopitis). I rode that all the way to the bottom.

See above. Get up and leave when starting to panic.

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Lesson two came a few weeks later, when I learned that if you triple your money QUIT! One lovely Friday evening I bought in for $500, and left with $1200. The next time I played I bought in for $500, and ran that sucker up to $1500 in about 90 minutes. I was suddenly surprised by my lack of self-control - the ploppy gland was working overtime. I found myself thinking "This is an ATM!". I started betting table max whenever the count was up, even a little. BANG! Three big losses and I'm down to a grand. That's OK, I said, I've at least doubled my money. I kept grinding, and it kept sucking me down, until I had around $125 left. I was able to recover and leave with a $100 win, but all I can think about is the $900 I blew.

Here's a couple of videos that touch on the subjecst:

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/starting-a-bankroll/

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/coupons-matchplays-tournaments/

http://www.blackjackapprenticeship.com/session/

1BB and ibeatyouraces are 2 of the smartest card counting guys on here: take their advice. Add to your bankroll from your day job and save up for a trip to somewhere that has better offerings. Vegas is good if you're in the west part of the country, Pennsylvania has great rules if you're in the east part.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I surely don't proclaim to know everything. Just enough to win :)

That's all you need, right?

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The best way to make money counting is knowing when NOT to play.

Yep. Sometimes I get a little bummed out that I live in WA state with mediocre rules/limits. Then I see shit like this..50% pen?

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Quote: AcesAndEights

That's all you need, right?


Yep. Sometimes I get a little bummed out that I live in WA state with mediocre rules/limits. Then I see shit like this..50% pen?

Come down to Reno sometime, the room is on me.

As I think about it, this all circles back to a fundamental quesiton - are these e-table games worth the time and effort? It's pretty clear they are not. I think it best to sit out unitl I can get to a "real" casino with enough bankroll to play the right way.

I greatly appeciate the input and advice.

Excellent! The money you save will pay for airfare to a decent game.

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Thanks for the tips. I think your point about knowing when not to play made me realize I should avoid this game. Given the choice betwen a lousy game and no game, I think the wise thing to do is stay home.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

The best way to make money counting is knowing when NOT to play.

This is good advice for all gambling!

And I'm not a big counter, but I agree with everything has been said. Game=ugh.