Poll

17 votes (60.71%)
3 votes (10.71%)
8 votes (28.57%)

28 members have voted

kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 214
  • Posts: 4422
July 14th, 2012 at 9:33:10 PM permalink
Although we are on opposite sites of the table, Mr Parks, I can appreciate and respect your position. I wish more people in the industry shared both the views and civility that I have heard from people like yourself and Mr Zender. Unfortunately most have a more antagonistic and hostile approach.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 214
  • Posts: 4422
July 14th, 2012 at 9:33:27 PM permalink
posted in wrong thread
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
  • Threads: 214
  • Posts: 4422
July 14th, 2012 at 9:34:05 PM permalink
Sorry duplicate post in wrong thread and don't know how to delete.
Keyser
Keyser
Joined: Apr 16, 2010
  • Threads: 35
  • Posts: 2057
July 15th, 2012 at 2:09:00 PM permalink
These days, card counters really aren't a threat. The movie, "21" has probably helped increased the profits for the casino, while naive 21 year olds attempt to duplicate the absurdity of the movie. I believe that most card counters are like roulette system players - they fool themselves into believing that they are playing with an edge when most of the time it's just a lucky run up.

The casinos generally make a good return on most of the counter's action, because they eventually encounter losing runs beyond the size of their bankrolls.

I've often believed that casinos should offer more zero edge games. Since the casino has more money that the player, the casino will win in the long run.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
July 15th, 2012 at 2:17:48 PM permalink
Quote: Keyser


I've often believed that casinos should offer more zero edge games. Since the casino has more money that the player, the casino will win in the long run.



If they got rid of the zeros in roulette, they would still make
money. Its not the zeros that make people lose, its their
bad bet selection and reinvesting their winnings. Sometimes
the zeros will sleep for an entire day on a wheel, and you'd
never see the difference in the hold.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
July 15th, 2012 at 2:22:10 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

If they got rid of the zeros in roulette, they would still make
money. Its not the zeros that make people lose, its their
bad bet selection and reinvesting their winnings. Sometimes
the zeros will sleep for an entire day on a wheel, and you'd
never see the difference in the hold.



Its not the zeros hitting or otherwise. Its the return being 35:1 rather than 37:1. If the wheel offered 37:1, the casino would not make any money.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
July 15th, 2012 at 2:46:00 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

Its not the zeros hitting or otherwise.



I didn't say it was, did I. That took about as long as I
thought for somebody to point out. I simply said get
rid of the zeros, I didn't say change the payouts. But
really, no matter what the payouts are, most people
keep playing till their money runs out, from making
bad betting decisions. You could have the payout be
39/1 and the casino would still make money, just not
as much. If you're going to sit there and play till your
money is gone, what difference does it make what you win.

The hold on roulette runs anywhere from 16% to
22%. The reason people win at BJ is some of them
know when to bet when its in their favor. Every spin
in roulette is an independent event, there are no
best times to bet.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
weaselman
weaselman
Joined: Jul 11, 2010
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 2349
July 15th, 2012 at 3:11:51 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

With a $20K BR I bet $25- $400. Max bet never exceeds 2% of your BR. Betting one unit per TC will not get the job done.


How much per hour do you make with a spread like that?
What do you bet at TC=+3?
"When two people always agree one of them is unnecessary"
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
July 15th, 2012 at 3:18:44 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I didn't say it was, did I. That took about as long as I
thought for somebody to point out. I simply said get
rid of the zeros, I didn't say change the payouts.



No you didn't. But if there's 36 slots after you take the two zeroes out, fair pay out is 35:1. You said "the zeroes can sleep, the casino makes money". So you implied it. But it's ALL to do with the payouts.

Quote:

But really, no matter what the payouts are, most people
keep playing till their money runs out, from making
bad betting decisions. You could have the payout be
39/1 and the casino would still make money, just not
as much. If you're going to sit there and play till your
money is gone, what difference does it make what you win.



This is mathematically incorrect. If the payouts were increased so the house did not have an edge, the player did, the house would lose money over time. You can believe otherwise, but it's quite easy to prove you are not right. Simple simulations will show that a players who are willing to keep playing to all their money is gone in a positive expectation game... will not always bust out, ever. Thus the casino loses money over time.

I ran simulations on players have a small edge on a coin flip three days ago. Overall, the mass of players made money, even if many busted out through over betting their bank roll.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
  • Threads: 434
  • Posts: 25333
July 15th, 2012 at 3:23:00 PM permalink
I was being flippant about making it a positive
exp game. Make it an even game and the casino
will win because people don't quit when they're
ahead. And they can't make the correct betting
decision because its impossible to do so on purpose.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

  • Jump to: