High limit slot win
Quote: IbeatyouracesMy big jackpot W2-G's. No taxes withheld.
Those are all on quarter games?
Vegas in 24 hours if mother nature doesnt close down Calgary Airport tomorrow
Quote: IbeatyouracesQuote: tournamentkingQuote: IbeatyouracesMy big jackpot W2-G's. No taxes withheld.
Those are all on quarter games?
No. They were dollars except the exact $10,000 ones. Those were Aces with a Kicker on $5.00, 40/10/6 Double Double Bonus.
Exactly. So why do they say 0.25 in the wager slot?
FYI, I think only one guy is in doubt you hit this. No need for you to prove yourself any further. We are all way more interested in why the casino took it off the floor. Perhaps the thing was malfunctioning, Doubtful, but that would be cool. It would probably be 100x harder to find a slot machine, jackpot malfunctioning in your favor and get paid, then it would be to hit what you did.Quote: TranscendFigured out what game it was, triple double gold doubloon by IGT...I was looking at the pay table for the value I was betting and it said the three multicolored sevens equaled $1,000 then if you get three triples that it would multiple the win by 27x
If you want to give it all back, you should partner up with TK and chase fictional advantage slot plays.
Congrats, especially if you don't play high limit slots that often.
Quote: AxelWolfFYI, I think only one guy is in doubt you hit this. No need for you to prove yourself any further. We are all way more interested in why the casino took it off the floor. Perhaps the thing was malfunctioning, Doubtful, but that would be cool. It would probably be 100x harder to find a slot machine, jackpot malfunctioning in your favor and get paid, then it would be to hit what you did.
If you want to give it all back, you should partner up with TK and chase fictional advantage slot plays.
Congrats, especially if you don't play high limit slots that often.
I only play high limit slots on money I have won, I tried using my own money twice and burned through it way too quick for that. And I'm not sure if they took it off the floor or not because the machine I found tonight may have been it but it had a lower jackpot pay out and multi denomination. I generally play VP, blackjack and craps
I find it troubling when people say things like that. If you don't understand why, Then this is even more troubling. I think quite a few guys understand what I mean.Quote: TranscendI only play high limit slots on money I have won
Quote: TranscendFirst off the form does not show that info you ask for, No where on the form does it say denomination or amount of the bet. Second I don't know why the federal taxes were deducted at close to 28%.
This makes plenty of sense to me. Without write-offs, 28% is the IRS tax rate on gambling win. If you don't write off losses against your win then at the end of the year you would owe the IRS 28% of your $27,000 jackpot. That would be $7840. It looks like the casino rounded it to $7500.
Quote: AxelWolfI find it troubling when people say things like that. If you don't understand why, Then this is even more troubling. I think quite a few guys understand what I mean.
Oh I know exactly what you are saying, I don't always do this. If I did, I would never make money gambling, but if I feel I had a good time, got dinner drinks and a good time....Well then sometimes I will play a high limit slot til I get back to even. Some times I just like to have a good time, but not on my dime....even though having won it, it is. This is not something i do often, but hey if I never did it, I would have never won that jackpot... can never complain about turning 500 in to 20000 after taxes
Quote: Transcendbut not on my dime
FAIL
This defiantly is a indication you don't understand what I'm saying. That's ok because its YOU'RE money and you are having fun, that's all that counts. I occasionally play things for fun as well. However, once that money is ,"WON", its no longer the CASINOS money, Its my money period.
Quote: mickeycrimmThis makes plenty of sense to me. Without write-offs, 28% is the IRS tax rate on gambling win. If you don't write off losses against your win then at the end of the year you would owe the IRS 28% of your $27,000 jackpot. That would be $7840. It looks like the casino rounded it to $7500.
It's a little fuzzy but I read that figure as $7560 and that is 28% right on the nose.
Quote: AxelWolfI find it troubling when people say things like that. If you don't understand why, Then this is even more troubling. I think quite a few guys understand what I mean.
I understand why this troubles you. But I think that you are equally not understanding the position of those who do it, and why they describe it the way they do. It's the difference between those of us who play for profit, and those of us who play for pure entertainment.
Once it's won, it's not the house's money any more. But it represents a larger bankroll than originally planned, and it also represents an amount in excess of that which was already budgeted... to lose. That's the key. If I take $1000 to the casino to lose over two days, and on the first day I win $2000, I can lose half of that $2000 and still have half of the money that used to be the casino's. Or I could stop and have all my own money, sure, but that wasn't why I went to the casino. I went to have fun. And now that I have a big chunk of money that I didn't used to have, I can really have fun. Because I don't earn my living at the casino.
We call it house money, but that's semantics. What it really is is windfall cash that doesn't have the same value as money that was earned working. For a professional gambler or an AP player, that IS money earned working, and therefore is the same. Believe me, I fight over every $10 at work... but that's because it's what I'm supposed to do at work.
Quote: 1BBIt's a little fuzzy but I read that figure as $7560 and that is 28% right on the nose.
You're right. I read my calculator wrong. Thanks for the correction. And I could use one more correction. I had written that
"without write-offs" the IRS tax rate on gambling win is 28%. That's true if you don't write off your losses, but also true if you do write of losses. They want 28% of your net gambling win. If you don't keep a log of your winning and losing sessions, and enter the amount of your winning sessions under "other income", then write your losses off in a different column, then you will owe the full 28% on any W2-G you receive.
Quote: 1BBWhat if someone were bequeathed 2k by grandma? Rush to the casino and blow it? What if I win 2k on the first day of a trip and lose it on the second day? Am I even or down 2k? Although I was even for the trip, I might feel that I was down. Boy, am I glad I never lose. :-)
What if a person had a total of $27,000 in losing sessions for the year. And had no winning sessions. But didn't keep a log book of their gambling activity. Then on Dec 31st, they hit a $27,000 jackpot. That would make them even for the year wouldn't it? Wrong! They owe the IRS $7560 on the jackpot.
What if we did the taxes for that person and got him back 7k? Do you think he would split it with us?Quote: mickeycrimmWhat if a person had a total of $27,000 in losing sessions for the year. And had no winning sessions. But didn't keep a log book of their gambling activity. Then on Dec 31st, they hit a $27,000 jackpot. That would make them even for the year wouldn't it? Wrong! They owe the IRS $7560 on the jackpot.
Quote: AxelWolfWhat if we did the taxes for that person and got him back 7k? Do you think he would split it with us?
Well, Transcend could jimmy it up to get 7K back with little chance of being audited. Gamblers don't send in their log books to the IRS. You don't send in gambling W2-G's either. It's just those two little columns on the tax form they look at....unless you get audited. But that might be a can of worms we don't want to open up here, Axel.
About 15 years ago I donated several thousand "common" sports cards to charity, to give away to kids in hospitals and as prizes at bazaars etc. There were a lot of cards, maybe half a dozen banker's boxes full. I had the gift itemized and documented by the parish priest, and then I claimed all the cards as a charitable tax deduction, using current guides for values. I copied all the relevant pages and submitted them along with my return. I wound up with a decent refund during a series of years where I'd been writing checks in April, and I never heard a peep in return from the IRS. The lesson? Never underestimate the value of the appearance of anything.
Quote: mickeycrimmWell, Transcend could jimmy it up to get 7K back with little chance of being audited. Gamblers don't send in their log books to the IRS. You don't send in gambling W2-G's either. It's just those two little columns on the tax form they look at....unless you get audited. But that might be a can of worms we don't want to open up here, Axel.
I do not keep a log book, as much as i know it would be a good idea...but I do have a question, would a win/loss form from the casino be sufficient enough?
Quote: TranscendI do not keep a log book, as much as i know it would be a good idea...but I do have a question, would a win/loss form from the casino be sufficient enough?
The stated policy from the IRS is that your gambling diary is the most important piece of evidence in an audit. Casino win-loss statements might help support your position if they line up reasonably well, but that is not the primary piece of evidence in an audit. Speaking as a table games player, I've occasionally glanced at the casino win-loss statements, and they are wildly inaccurate. For a slots/VP player, it would probably be closer to reality since it's all electronic.
Not to mention, if you play unrated at all (I do a lot), then they are completely worthless.
You should really keep a gambling diary, especially if you play high-limits lots even occasionally. Those W2-Gs can be expensive if you don't have losses to write off.
Quote: mickeycrimmYou're right. I read my calculator wrong. Thanks for the correction. And I could use one more correction. I had written that
"without write-offs" the IRS tax rate on gambling win is 28%. That's true if you don't write off your losses, but also true if you do write of losses. They want 28% of your net gambling win. If you don't keep a log of your winning and losing sessions, and enter the amount of your winning sessions under "other income", then write your losses off in a different column, then you will owe the full 28% on any W2-G you receive.
I'm not sure I follow you. Gambling winnings go on the front of your 1040, losses go on Schedule A as an itemized deduction...and the net just goes to the bottom line. Isn't it then taxed in whatever bracket you end up in? I think the 28% is just what happens on the W2-G if you choose to have taxes withheld. The actual rate used at the end of the year depends on the rest of your income and deductions.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm not sure I follow you. Gambling winnings go on the front of your 1040, losses go on Schedule A as an itemized deduction...and the net just goes to the bottom line. Isn't it then taxed in whatever bracket you end up in? I think the 28% is just what happens on the W2-G if you choose to have taxes withheld. The actual rate used at the end of the year depends on the rest of your income and deductions.
Only filing as a professional gambler makes you eligible for the graduated tax brackets. Recreational gamblers are taxed on gambling win at a flat rate of 25% or 28%. I could probably google around and find it.
And here's another dirty little secret about recreational gamblers and W-2G's. You can either write off your losses against your win or you can take your standard deduction/personal exemption....but you can't do both.
Not a dirty little secret; a hard truth. Last year was the first year I had to itemize. This year I have $12,000 in W-2Gs so of course the standard deduction won't be enough. Thankfully I'm too poor to pay income tax, so I'll get a refund again. (Thanks, Obama!) I look forward to the day I will have to pay taxes.Quote: mickeycrimm
And here's another dirty little secret about recreational gamblers and W-2G's. You can either write off your losses against your win or you can take your standard deduction/personal exemption....but you can't do both.
Quote: TranscendI do not keep a log book, as much as i know it would be a good idea...but I do have a question, would a win/loss form from the casino be sufficient enough?
Thats what I used last year to do my return as I never knew I needed to track everything i wagered... got my refund in the mail couple of days after Christmas
My ROYAL in December at Paris was taxed at 30% but I am Canadian
Quote: TranscendI do not keep a log book, as much as i know it would be a good idea...but I do have a question, would a win/loss form from the casino be sufficient enough?
The IRS doesn't like win/loss statements from casinos as proof of your losses. They are hip to how inaccurate they are.
All of the above the more information the better.Quote: TranscendThank you for the information mickey, the stress you are putting on its importance is certainly getting through and I plan to keep a log from now on. What is required? Game, duration, total wagered, total won or lost?
I believe they still have log books just for gambling. I'm wondering if it has to be hand written of it a simple phone app will work. They have some apps that deal with this exact thing, if you want I can tell you a few good ones I use. One is free and simple to use, I told DJtac about it and he seems to love it. He knows exactly where he is at on his bankroll at all times.
But on my IRS log I only record dates, casino names, type of games played (slots or vp for me) amount won or lost in total at each casino, and any w2g's received. They said "perfect". There's no reason to tell them your total amount wagered, duration, or anything of the sort. The LESS information the better.
Quote: tournamentkingBut on my IRS log I only record dates, casino names, type of games played (slots or vp for me) amount won or lost in total at each casino, and any w2g's received. They said "perfect". There's no reason to tell them your total amount wagered, duration, or anything of the sort. The LESS information the better.
Since most gaming favors the casino, is there any reason for the IRS to believe anyone actually makes a profit? I mean, if they are accepting hand written logs, just write down close to 0% net, problem solved? I guess until you start getting into those + $10K transactions and you don't want to hold cash when you are done... Not speaking from experience here, my biggest win was $1199.18 on a slot machine, lol.
FAILQuote: megapixelsSince most gaming favors the casino, is there any reason for the IRS to believe anyone actually makes a profit? I mean, if they are accepting hand written logs, just write down close to 0% net, problem solved? I guess until you start getting into those + $10K transactions and you don't want to hold cash when you are done... Not speaking from experience here, my biggest win was $1199.18 on a slot machine, lol.
that my friend, is how people get busted and get bank accounts and safe deposit boxes seized. They look at bank statements and your cost of living.
Quote: AxelWolfFAIL. That my friend, is how people get busted and get bank accounts and safe deposit boxes seized. They look at bank statements and your cost of living.
The IRS is also hip to fake log books where everything looks brand new and with the same color of ink. When you go into log books every day pages get dog ear'd, etc. And did you use the same pen with the same color ink for the entire year?
Quote: megapixelsSince most gaming favors the casino, is there any reason for the IRS to believe anyone actually makes a profit? I mean, if they are accepting hand written logs, just write down close to 0% net, problem solved? I guess until you start getting into those + $10K transactions and you don't want to hold cash when you are done... Not speaking from experience here, my biggest win was $1199.18 on a slot machine, lol.
And how exactly ARE you paying for your lifestyle when you are gambling, losing and not working???
Quote: mickeycrimmOnly filing as a professional gambler makes you eligible for the graduated tax brackets. Recreational gamblers are taxed on gambling win at a flat rate of 25% or 28%. I could probably google around and find it.
I'm 100% sure this is false; there is no separate "bucket" in which to put your gambling income.
I know you're experienced in the industry mickey and I'm not attacking you personally, but I'm guessing you've filed as a pro for a long time so you may not be familiar with the filing procedure for recreational gamblers. I'm not an expert and I've only read one book on it (Tax Help for Gamblers) and only filed 1 year with recreational gambling winnings. So clearly I'm not an "expert" either.
But everything I've read online and this book all agree on the basic procedure:
A) You put gross winnings on the front of the 1040 (2013 it was Line 21 "Other income. List type and amount", not sure if the line number changes year to year)
B) You deduct your gross losses on Schedule A under "Other Miscellaneous Deductions" (2013 it was line 28)
C) The net ends up as part of your Taxable income (Line 43) and is taxed at whatever rate you are taxed at.
Anything withheld on W-2Gs is noted as tax already withheld, whatever the percentage used (I'm guessing as "Federal income tax withheld" line 62 but I've never gotten a W-2G)
If gambling wins are taxed at a flat percentage, where is that percentage in the tax tables/instructions? Which line on the form gets your net gambling win? I'm not aware of anything.
I'm being pretty direct here because if I'm wrong, I need to know it and file the right way this coming year (and probably go back to last year too).
Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm 100% sure this is false; there is no separate "bucket" in which to put your gambling income.
I know you're experienced in the industry mickey and I'm not attacking you personally, but I'm guessing you've filed as a pro for a long time so you may not be familiar with the filing procedure for recreational gamblers. I'm not an expert and I've only read one book on it (Tax Help for Gamblers) and only filed 1 year with recreational gambling winnings. So clearly I'm not an "expert" either.
But everything I've read online and this book all agree on the basic procedure:
A) You put gross winnings on the front of the 1040 (2013 it was Line 21 "Other income. List type and amount", not sure if the line number changes year to year)
B) You deduct your gross losses on Schedule A under "Other Miscellaneous Deductions" (2013 it was line 28)
C) The net ends up as part of your Taxable income (Line 43) and is taxed at whatever rate you are taxed at.
Anything withheld on W-2Gs is noted as tax already withheld, whatever the percentage used (I'm guessing as "Federal income tax withheld" line 62 but I've never gotten a W-2G)
If gambling wins are taxed at a flat percentage, where is that percentage in the tax tables/instructions? Which line on the form gets your net gambling win? I'm not aware of anything.
I'm being pretty direct here because if I'm wrong, I need to know it and file the right way this coming year (and probably go back to last year too).
I'll take your word for it, and no I don't file as a recreational..
Quote: AcesAndEightsBut everything I've read online and this book all agree on the basic procedure:
A) You put gross winnings on the front of the 1040 (2013 it was Line 21 "Other income. List type and amount", not sure if the line number changes year to year)
B) You deduct your gross losses on Schedule A under "Other Miscellaneous Deductions" (2013 it was line 28)
C) The net ends up as part of your Taxable income (Line 43) and is taxed at whatever rate you are taxed at.
Yes, you're correct. It's a scheme that could only be conceived by a politician or bureaucrat.
Quote: gpac1377Yes, you're correct. It's a scheme that could only be conceived by a politician or bureaucrat.
No, no, no.
The "bad states for gambling" have the schemes thought up by those groups. We cannot deduct losses.
That's right, whatever amount is on your W2G is what you're taxed on for the state. Win $2000 today, lose $2000 tomorrow and repeat for the whole year and you'll owe roughly $36,000 on your $0 winnings.
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/taxpro/fact/gambling.pdf
The taxpayer then reports the net gains from all winning sessions for the year in Wisconsin taxable income if the winning sessions have a situs in Wisconsin.
If the taxpayer has losing sessions, the net losses from those sessions are not deductible for Wisconsin income tax purposes.
Quote: BTLWINo, no, no.
The "bad states for gambling" have the schemes thought up by those groups. We cannot deduct losses.
That's right, whatever amount is on your W2G is what you're taxed on for the state. Win $2000 today, lose $2000 tomorrow and repeat for the whole year and you'll owe roughly $36,000 on your $0 winnings.
http://www.revenue.wi.gov/taxpro/fact/gambling.pdf
The taxpayer then reports the net gains from all winning sessions for the year in Wisconsin taxable income if the winning sessions have a situs in Wisconsin.
If the taxpayer has losing sessions, the net losses from those sessions are not deductible for Wisconsin income tax purposes.
The states that do this just absolutely boggle the mind. How/why hasn't there been legal action against these state governments? It's just a completely untenable position. I'm just sitting here steaming at my desk thinking about it, since it's a possibility in the midterm future that I might be moving to Massachusetts, which is one of the stupid states.
Quote: BTLWIThe "bad states for gambling" have the schemes thought up by those groups. We cannot deduct losses.
It makes my blood boil, and I'm a Nevada resident, so I'm not even affected. A couple days back, someone on vpFREE summarized the ridiculous federal situation, then went on to describe state taxes:
Quote: <vpFREE>For state tax purposes, the situation is far worse, to the point of being sadistically punitive, in a growing number of states that don't allow the deduction of ANY losses on Schedule A, or that limit the deduction. For gamblers in those states, it doesn't pay to wake up in the morning.
Disgusting.
Tell me please, how much bet in win-bank (win) ?
Here talking about ..
I was on a 2 day heater, had won 4 out of 4 craps sessions, two for two on BlackJack sessions, and even won some money on a $.01 slot killing time with my bride. So we headed off to the High Limit room, where I found a $1, 3 play Ultimate X video poker game. Put in $300, and hit this after about 10 minutes.
This pretty much guarantees that I will be a life time winner at Video Poker, as I rarely play, and I can't see me ever running $2,400 dollars into them in the future.
BTW, held the 2nd and 4th Aces........
Quote: RaleighCrapsWell, for you regular video players this is not a big win, and certainly not a High Limit slot win, but the machine I was playing at Harrah's Cherokee was in the High Limit room, so I'm claiming it. :-) And I got a damn W2G
I was on a 2 day heater, had won 4 out of 4 craps sessions, two for two on BlackJack sessions, and even won some money on a $.01 slot killing time with my bride. So we headed off to the High Limit room, where I found a $1, 3 play Ultimate X video poker game. Put in $300, and hit this after about 10 minutes.
This pretty much guarantees that I will be a life time winner at Video Poker, as I rarely play, and I can't see me ever running $2,400 dollars into them in the future.
BTW, held the 2nd and 4th Aces........
VERY nice, Raleigh! Sweet when it all comes together.
I wasn't even vulturing the damn game, just wanted to learn how it works!
Quote: BTLWIThe "bad states for gambling" have the schemes thought up by those groups. We cannot deduct losses.
How many are asking "is my state one of the bad ones?" [g] I googled and came up with this.
Quote: the linkSomes states either don't allow a deduction for gambling losses or don't allow itemized deductions. The result in those states is that for state tax purposes, you are taxed on gambling gains without any offset for losses. Those states include:
Connecticut*
Illinois*
Indiana*
Louisiana (Itemized Deduction Limitation)
Massachusetts*
Michigan*
Minnesota (State AMT — Impacts Amateurs)
Mississippi (allows a deduction only for losses in Mississippi)
New Hampshire (10% Gambling Tax)
New York (Itemized Deduction Limitation)
Ohio (Anticipatedto change in 2013)
West Virginia*
Wisconsin*
__________________________________________________________
*Those states do not allow gambling losses as an itemized deduction.
https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/1528811-can-you-deduct-gambling-losses
