Keno, anyone?

Awesome!

I decided to stop at a place called Lily's on Wheeling Island after work because I had to go over and get cigarettes anyway. I didn't intend to do any serious gaming (never would in a cafe) so I just stuck in $5 and played $0.25/card at Caveman Keno. I ended up hitting Seven Balls with a Double on my third card which put me ahead $75.50. I ended up playing that down to ahead $70, tipped $5.00, left $65.00 ahead.

That's not a big win.

I got the cigarettes and was going to do the whole lottery ticket thing with my night auditor friend, but the machine was down at 7-11, so I said, "Well, gotta gamble, I'm going over to the casino with $50 and I'm still $15 ahead even if I lose it."

I got there and one of the $1.50 QuickHits Progressives was looking pretty good for Five QuickHits and Six QuickHits. I would say, just between the two of those, you could probably put me up to 97% ER or better. The Five Quickhits was at $28.xx on a base of $15.00 and Six Quickhits was at $97.xx on a base of $75. I was fortunate enough to first hit for 20 Free Games * 3x Pays for about $130, and then I collected those very two Progressives in somewhat short order which put me ahead about $240.

I looked around for more advantageous machines, and found that Five Quickhits on the $0.05 (Max $2.25) linked Progressive was at $41.22 on a base of $22.50, and the others were reasonable enough looking that I was probably 95%+ ER. I hit for some Free Games that really didn't accomplish much, but collected that Progressive on the very next spin putting me ahead about $275 in total.

I couldn't find anymore advantageous (or close to it) Progressive machines, so I decided to go with where the positive variance was earlier and play some video Keno. I settled on a machine with Fireball Keno at $0.05 increments, Max Bet $2.00. I decided to go with a negative Progression by which I would bet $0.05, $0.10, $0.20, $0.40, $0.60, $0.80, $1.00, $1.20, $1.40, $1.50, $1.60, $1.75, $1.90, $1.95, $2.00 and return to $0.05 for each win of more than double the amount bet (Five Balls) and the level below for double the amount bet with a redo just on the amount bet. I played this way until my ticket was $415.xx, then I switched machines and upped my base on the Progression to $0.25.

I couldn't stop hitting for Seven Balls! Seven Balls here, Seven Balls, there, Seven Balls everywhere! I got up to around $660.xx, and upped my base to $1.00 going $1.00, $1.20, $1.40, $1.50, $1.60, $1.75, $1.80, $1.90, $1.95, $2.00. I was regularly losing on the first 5-8 bets, but then getting it all back in the form of the Five Fireball Free Games and dropping back down to the base. This went on for some time, and then I hit another streak of Seven Balls, basically within about four Progression runs could for anywhere from $50-$90 each time. I got up to $915.xx and then hit for Eight Balls which was good for a little over $200. Ultimately, I ended up getting as high as $1,188.xx, but then I went on two losing streaks (time to quit) by which I lost about $16.xx each time.

I returned to a QuickHits machine on which someone was kind enough to rebuild the Progressive, but not to anything approaching an advantage point. I ended up working my way down to $1,125 over the course of an hour, playing as little as $0.01/pull on American Original to get myself to an even number.

Ultimately, I ended up $1,075 ahead between the two places, on what you ask? Well, basically on $5.00 that I expected to lose at Lily's for a return 215x!!!!

It's been an exceptionally good year!

You smoke? Whats your reasoning behind that
desision. I've heard they're bad for you. In fact
I personally knew 7 people that cigarettes killed
either directly or indirectly. Its probably more
if I thought about it.

I assumed you wore a disguise so no one would see you playing keno.

Maybe he just likes to smoke. Maybe he likes the feel of his lungs when they get their fix of nicotine. Maybe he likes the aroma of tobacco, or the taste of the smoke, or how relaxing a habit it is. Maybe he doesn't like it at all yet must smoke because of his addiction. Whatever the reason, he's a big boy and is no concern of ours. I use to smoke for all those reasons, and boy do I miss it. If not for the health reasons I'd start again right now. I'm waiting for them to come up with a nicotine-less cigarette. I would go out and buy a pack tomorrow. I love the smoke, hated the addiction, and if I could have a smoke every once in a while on my schedule without the addiction, and not on nicotine's schedule of every 20 minutes, I'd be happy.

Quote: NickyDim

Whatever the reason, he's a big boy and is no concern of ours.

Did I say he was concerned? I'm just wondering
about his reasoning. The youngest guy I knew
was 42 when he got lung cancer. He would say
things like he only smoked 2 packs a day, and
he was barely over 40. I guess nobody told his
lungs they weren't designed to filter burning
weeds. Very sad, he was an only child and his
parents were devastated. He left one child and
she doesn't smoke..

It is sad and there are plenty of stories in every ones life revolving people who suffered from smoking, including my own parents.

And I meant asking him his reasons are no business of ours. As a former smoker, the last thing I ever wanted was the reasons or lecturing on how harmful it was or how dumb I was, and I resented those who would bring it up. I didn't owe anyone a reason. I didn't imply he was concerned, I was implying he's free to do what he wants without explanation, that's all.

Quote: NickyDim

And I meant asking him his reasons are no business of ours.

Of course it is. Everytime I go to the casino
I'm forced to share the smoke of the people
at my table. Its not my business? Are you
kidding?

Quote: NickyDim

..I resented those who would bring it up. I didn't owe anyone a reason.

Lovely. Thats exactly the attitude smokers give out
as they blow smoke in your face.

I don't want to feud. It's a casino, there are smokers, drinkers and gamblers. If any of that offends you don't enter. I don't smoke any longer, yet I would never impose on someone's right to smoke, same as I tolerate someone's political views that are different than mine. It's allowed and it's their right. This country was created to allow an individual to enjoy freedoms and not be told what they must do, and to live in a country like this requires(or used to require) tolerance of others, not oppression of them.

Quote: NickyDim

This country was created to allow an individual to enjoy freedoms and not be told what they must do,

Really. Then why all the no smoking laws? Why were
they passed, where's all this tolerance you think should
exist.

I think smokers should have special rooms in the casino
where can chain smoke to their hearts content. Their
own tables, their own slots.

And it's your right to voice that opinion even though I don't agree with it. Do you do the same for those who drink and you don't want them slurring their words in your presence? How about the guy who has flatulence and you are offended by the smell? Do we set up different rooms for them too? How about the ugly, who's f-n with your head as your trying to play? Where does it end?

Smoking laws have taken on too much and it treats the smokers as lepers. They have gone too far. Ok, no smoking in restaurants, fine, but the beach? You can't smoke at some NYC and Long Island parks and beaches OUTSIDE!!!. Where will it end? In NYC, you won't be able to buy a soda over 16oz because the sugar is bad for you, and none in a restaurant along with trans fat and salt, because the some lawmaker says it's bad for you. Don't you see this is just a start without end to total oppression of the masses in this country, all because it's good for you, or you as an individual are too stupid to know what's good for you. When did lawmakers become my conscience or parent?

Quote: NickyDim

Do you do the same for those who drink and you don't want them slurring their words in your presence? How about the guy who has flatulence and you are offended by the smell?

Sigh. Slurring and farting are not injurious to anybody's
health. Second hand smoke is. When somebody fart's
around me I don't get a headache and raspy throat for
3 hours like I do being around cigarette smoke.

Getting back to the original topic ...

Congratulations Mission146! That's one hell of a roll you were on. I dare you to do it again tomorrow. :)

Quote: FleaStiff

I assumed you wore a disguise so no one would see you playing keno.

I was wearing my WoV polo.

Just kidding, they're not ordered yet.

Quote: tsmith

Getting back to the original topic ...

Congratulations Mission146! That's one hell of a roll you were on. I dare you to do it again tomorrow. :)

Thank you very much! I'm busting a double (overnight) tonight, but I am certainly willing to start out at Lily's with $5.00 again and see what happens next time I have the chance!

I did make one mistake, it wasn't Caveman Keno at Lily's, it was Super Keno. I don't even know why I said Caveman.

Quote: Mission146

Awesome!

I decided to stop at a place called Lily's on Wheeling Island after work because I had to go over and get cigarettes anyway.

Victory!! You can quit smoking now!

The cigarettes are not actuall at Lily's, but it is on the way to 7-11.

Quick Hit:

The streak continues.

I went over there again last night, but this time noticed a $1.50/Max QuickHits Progressive where 7 QuickHits were at $380.xx on a base of $150 and Eight QuickHits were at $2,7xx.xx on a base of $1,500, same machine.

They are both long shots to be sure, but the combination of those and a semi-favorable amount on 9 QuickHits (nearly impossible) pushes it right around 100% ER, if not a little more, so had to try it.

In any event, I deliberately ignored my usual stop strategy and did not quit or attempt to quit at times where I was $50 or even $100 ahead. I never did end up hitting the Seven QuickHits or Eight QuickHits on the base, however, towards the end of my hard stop time, I managed to hit Seven QuickHits at 2x for $300 during a bonus game. I was down about $25 at the time it happened and lost about another $25 by the time I hit my hard stop time for +$250 overall.

My friend with whom I usually check such things wasn't going to the casino tonight, so I might have to head over there myself and see if anyone has hit either of the Progressives on that machine yet. If so, just look for other advantageous QuickHits machines, and if there are none, maybe try $20 on Fireball Keno and see what happens.

If this QuickHits game hits as frequently as this one described here, it wouldn't be that close to 100% return unless the base pay of the machine was 96% (unlikely). Given the probabilities in the link, the heavy progressive amounts would add only about 2.5% to the overall return. The base return of the 9 QuickHit is only worth about 0.1% also. Nevertheless, nice hit!

I dunno, when I've got some stray singles, I'll burn them off in the Keno; gives a lot of points for the amount risked, too. Never won more than $5. Sometimes I'll grab a ticket at home, too, and again, never won more than $5.

Quote: tringlomane

If this QuickHits game hits as frequently as this one described here, it wouldn't be that close to 100% return unless the base pay of the machine was 96% (unlikely). Given the probabilities in the link, the heavy progressive amounts would add only about 2.5% to the overall return. The base return of the 9 QuickHit is only worth about 0.1% also. Nevertheless, nice hit!

I put the base ER at 92%, this is just based on my records, mainly. I think that's the structure they are using, though.

With my numbers, I have: 92.09%

150/9327 = .0161

380/9327 = .0407

Difference: +2.46%

$975/87617 = .0111

$2750/87617 = .0314

Difference = +2.03%

75/1329 = .0564

92/1239 = .0743

Difference = +1.79%

15/230 = .0652

18.5/230 = .0804

Difference + 1.52%

92.09 + 2.03 + 2.46 + 1.79 + 1.52 = 99.89% (Does not include 9 QuickHits because I don't remember exactly where it was)

EDIT: Thanks for saying nice hit! I actually probably see that one a little more often than I should. I saw Eight of them during a Bonus game on a $2.00 Max Bet flat-top for 4K back in June. Only time I've ever seen eight or nine.

I didn't include any of the 5 or 6 QuickHit progressive values because I assumed they weren't the same value you wrote in your OP. Adding all of those in, then yeah the result could be that close to 100% given a 92% return with minimum payouts. But I would assume the 92% payout listed in the link includes the average progressive values. If that's the case, you need to know the increase of the QuickHit meters as a function of coin in to figure out how much the current payouts increase the machine's return.

Quote: EvenBob

Really. Then why all the no smoking laws? Why were
they passed, where's all this tolerance you think should
exist.

I think smokers should have special rooms in the casino
where can chain smoke to their hearts content. Their
own tables, their own slots.

Bob, if you peed in my mouth, and I swallowed, what would my alcohol content be?

It's not a big win, per se, but this is the most relevant already-existant thread.

Video Keno F***ing loves me!

Today is the official day where I chop my bankroll in half for the year with half of it going to Christmas (there was already X-Mas money, of course) and half of it getting carried over into next year's bankroll. I suppose that I might hit Scioto Downs one more time this year, but I'm not entirely sure, so we'll say it's all getting carried over. If I lose, the amount will be insubstantial, anyway.

In any event, since I might be closing the books on this year, I decided to go in with $200 with the intention of doubling it (or better) in $100 increments or losing the $200. There was only one advantageous Quick Hits machine in the house, and it was advantageous mostly due to the fact that the 5 QuickHits was at $35.xx for a $1.50 Max Bet, which is ridiculously high, but not something anybody is going to retire on.

I ended up playing my $200 down to $70.xx in that machine, and then I finally hit for some Free Games. I managed to go full-on Ninja and pulled off 25 Free Games (20 Free Games + Wild 5 Bonus) at 3x base pays. The result of the Free Games was such that I ended up at $188.xx afterward (mostly due to getting 5 Quick Hits with a Base Pay of $15.00 for $45.00 twice, the rest of the spins sucked) and then I hit the Five QuickHits Progressive which was now at $36.xx on the very next spin.

I ended up having to leave that machine only about $25 ahead, so then I decided to play the Blue Moon machine at 30 Lines * 10/Line $0.01 Denom for a bet of $3.00/pull. I have no idea why, there is nothing advantageous about those machines whatsoever and your success of failure is completely 100% incumbent on whether on not you hit Free Games.

After being down to about $120.xx, I did hit Free Games. The way it works is that there is a multiplier on top of the game and you need to get 5-9 symbols in order to get Seven Free Games. If I am not mistaken, you get one multiplier for five symbols, two for six, three for seven, five for eight and seven for nine. In any event, I only had five symbols.

The way the multiplier works is that you will receive that amount * bet per line ($0.10) when you play thirty lines for each of the symbols that you get during Free Games. If you get five or more symbols in any one spin during Free Games, that is an automatic five extra spins and you light up additional multipliers pursuant to the way it works in the base game. Multipliers range from anywhere from 15x to 1000x.

I didn't have to worry about that as I did not hit for extra Free Games. However, I did manage to light up the 1000x multiplier, again, because I am a badass.

Unfortunately, I only managed to get four symbols during the pendency of these Seven Free Games, which is actually quite low for a set of Seven spins, but the result was still +$408.xx on the Free Games, including the base wins...I told you the base pays suck!!!

I am at about $528 at this point, so I decide to try some $0.25 Frost N' Fire Keno because I usually play Fireball Keno but wasn't feeling good about it. I ended up having a decent hit early on which put me up to $562, so I said, "Screw it, I'm Max Betting!" The Max Bet for the game is $2.50, so that's what I was doing.

In any case, there are Frost symbols which result in 11 Free Games and 4x Pays on the Base Game (the one that led to the Free Games) if you manage to hit two Frost symbols. The payout schedule is much more liberal in Free Games with Three Hits giving you the base bet of $2.50. If you hit Three Fire Symbols, then you get nineteen Free Games also with a liberal payout schedule and 9x pays on the Base Game.

In any case, Eight Hits results in a Progressive Jackpot in the Fire Free Games when you are Max Betting, and I had said Eight Hits and hit the Progressive for $452.88! I was actually even a little ahead of the earlier $562 at this point, so it put me up to about $1,044 total.

It ended up getting played down to $1,000 and I walked away $800 ahead!

I keep telling myself as the number of attempts increases, one must approach the expected value, man, next year almost has to suck!

Mission146, I am a self proclaimed video keno junkie. Do you normally play super keno? I usually play either 4 card or multi card. I have never tried Super Keno just wondering if you prefer that game and if so why? I know the house hold is high but I have won many nice hand pay and non hand pay jackpots. There is nothing quite as satisfying as watching the machine say "jackpot call attendant". Thanks for the info on the Quick Hits.

Quote: MrRalph

Mission146, I am a self proclaimed video keno junkie. Do you normally play super keno? I usually play either 4 card or multi card. I have never tried Super Keno just wondering if you prefer that game and if so why? I know the house hold is high but I have won many nice hand pay and non hand pay jackpots. There is nothing quite as satisfying as watching the machine say "jackpot call attendant". Thanks for the info on the Quick Hits.

Mr. Ralph,

You're very welcome, and I will also thank Tringlomane for linking Arcade_History.com.

I have played Super Keno, though I don't normally play it. It's in the parlors, but I don't believe it is in the casino, though games with the same exact premise are. I would also like to say I HATE Bonus Super Keno for being the only game I have ever seen with, "Bonus Games," in which you can lose money. If you are playing that game and hit the first & last ball, (whether or not it is a winner is irrelevant) then you are paid 4x on the win (if it wins) and go to the so-called, "Bonus Games," in which there are ten games and you must make the same bet for each game. Every win is automatically 2x, but even if you won something on the initial win, you can still lose money overall.

I have a tendency to play Caveman Keno in the parlors when I go to those.

In the casino, I usually play Fireball Keno, Lucky Bells (Progressive) Keno and Frost N' Fire (Progressive) Keno. I have played some of the other games there. I'll occasionally play Cleopatra Keno when I go to Scioto Downs. I intend to do a full breakdown of Lucky Bells Keno eventually, in which I will determine the point that the Progressive must be for one to be at 100%+ER.

Fireball Keno is a game in which any winning combination in which the player matches the last ball results in five Free Games, and in each of those Free Games the paytable is the same, but the draw is 20 Balls + 5 FireBalls. The Fireballs are just extra balls, not a multiplier or anything, but it's still fun to match 7/10 and then see what the Fireballs bring.

Lucky Bells is a Keno game in which there are multipliers, very similar to Caveman Keno. The main difference is there are Six Bells and different multipliers for hitting 2-6 of the Bells.

Frost N' Fire is a game in which there are two levels of Bonus Games with different paytables. For instance, 3/10 is a winner on the Bonus Paytable of one unit per one unit bet. The two different Bonus Games are ten, "Frost Bonus," if you match your first two numbers in a winning combination (or maybe you don't have to win, can't remember, always been a winner when I have done it) and sixteen Bonus Games if you match the last three numbers for, "Fire Bonus." It is also possible to win both Bonuses in the same play, though I have only done that once.

I imagine you're familiar with Cleopatra, it's pretty common.

Once I determine Progressive advantage points on the other two, I will be forced to play those if any are at that point. If not, then my favorite game is probably Fireball Keno.

I have never seen Fireball Keno. I will be in both Vegas and AC this month I will have to look for it. I usually only play 10 spots on Cleopatra and Caveman.
Thanks for the info

Quote: MrRalph

I have never seen Fireball Keno. I will be in both Vegas and AC this month I will have to look for it. I usually only play 10 spots on Cleopatra and Caveman.
Thanks for the info

Cleopatra's not bad, if you don't mind a game that is a bit heavy on Bonus Games at the sacrifice of a decent base Paytable. I would just as soon have a better base Paytable and have the Bonus Games be five games at 2x or twelve games at 1x, but if you are hitting the Bonus Games at a decent quip, then you can grind out a bit of a profit. I would say that, unless you're betting Max (doesn't affect the Paytable, percentage-wise, at Scioto, I was just there last night) aside from hitting for nine or ten balls, there's not really any one win that would cause someone to walk away.

I've never really found the perfect balance of Paytable and Bonus Games setup I really like, to be honest, Fireball Keno probably comes the closest, and those five extra balls can make it fairly exciting. Aside from that, Caveman and Lucky Bells have no Bonus Games, and the Bonus Games on Frost N' Fire are very rare...

Quote: MrRalph

I have never seen Fireball Keno. I will be in both Vegas and AC this month I will have to look for it. I usually only play 10 spots on Cleopatra and Caveman.
Thanks for the info

They are Spielo machines. I saw nothing on CET slot finder for them listed by name, though they are multi-machines where I can play them and don't know the name of the unit, such as Game King for IGT.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

They are Spielo machines. I saw nothing on CET slot finder for them listed by name, though they are multi-machines where I can play them and don't know the name of the unit, such as Game King for IGT.

Exactly, oddly, I've never really paid attention to what the machine itself is called, either. Those are the ones with many of the games I referenced, Fireball, Frost N' Fire, Lucky Bells, Big Catch, Classic Keno...and a few VP games, as well.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

They are Spielo machines. I saw nothing on CET slot finder for them listed by name, though they are multi-machines where I can play them and don't know the name of the unit, such as Game King for IGT.

Try Power Station Plus or Power Station Ultra, both Spielo products.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: tringlomane

If this QuickHits game hits as frequently as this one described here, it wouldn't be that close to 100% return unless the base pay of the machine was 96% (unlikely). Given the probabilities in the link, the heavy progressive amounts would add only about 2.5% to the overall return. The base return of the 9 QuickHit is only worth about 0.1% also. Nevertheless, nice hit!

I put the base ER at 92%, this is just based on my records, mainly. I think that's the structure they are using, though.

With my numbers, I have: 92.09%

150/9327 = .0161

380/9327 = .0407

Difference: +2.46%

$975/87617 = .0111

$2750/87617 = .0314

Difference = +2.03%

75/1329 = .0564

92/1239 = .0743

Difference = +1.79%

15/230 = .0652

18.5/230 = .0804

Difference + 1.52%

92.09 + 2.03 + 2.46 + 1.79 + 1.52 = 99.89% (Does not include 9 QuickHits because I don't remember exactly where it was)

EDIT: Thanks for saying nice hit! I actually probably see that one a little more often than I should. I saw Eight of them during a Bonus game on a $2.00 Max Bet flat-top for 4K back in June. Only time I've ever seen eight or nine.

This is really an old ass thread. I wasn't even a WoV member yet. But for some reason I found a link to this thread, on my hard drive. I was just cleaning up some files, found this, and I assume I had it saved because of your math work and the rest of the interesting conversation. I have what I think is a nice pic to post here, which I played on an unlinked machine, maybe a month or so ago. The 5-hit was what caught my attention, on a $3 maxbet.

PS: I hit it rather quickly, nothing else spectac, lost $16. I think the meter is 1% on the 5-hit, I'd have to check. Surprised that it got that high. A lot of short-coiners apparently.

While I'm still cleaning out some old files, thought I'd post this too, even though it doesn't relate to this really old thread. But you would THINK this was a good play. I sat down, and was surprised to see the meter was so slow it was practically frozen. With 90 cents to go, it wasn't even playable. Ridiculous.

Quote: bobbartop

While I'm still cleaning out some old files, thought I'd post this too, even though it doesn't relate to this really old thread. But you would THINK this was a good play. I sat down, and was surprised to see the meter was so slow it was practically frozen. With 90 cents to go, it wasn't even playable. Ridiculous.

They've been this way around here for years. $25/$25, recently $25/$15 meters. At casino opening, $4/$2.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

They've been this way around here for years. $25/$25, recently $25/$15 meters. At casino opening, $4/$2.

Hi One Nickel, how are you.

I don't really understand what you mean by those numbers.

Quote: bobbartop

Hi One Nickel, how are you.

I don't really understand what you mean by those numbers.

How much coin-in to move a penny, the major/minor.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

How much coin-in to move a penny, the major/minor.

Oh I see. Omg, that's awful. Really short-sighted. Never mind short-sighted, that's just stupid. And let me guess, on Saturday nights you can't get a seat. The Suits have never heard the saying, "less is more".

Quote: bobbartop

This is really an old ass thread. I wasn't even a WoV member yet. But for some reason I found a link to this thread, on my hard drive. I was just cleaning up some files, found this, and I assume I had it saved because of your math work and the rest of the interesting conversation. I have what I think is a nice pic to post here, which I played on an unlinked machine, maybe a month or so ago. The 5-hit was what caught my attention, on a $3 maxbet.

PS: I hit it rather quickly, nothing else spectac, lost $16. I think the meter is 1% on the 5-hit, I'd have to check. Surprised that it got that high. A lot of short-coiners apparently.

Thanks for the compliment on the thread!

The only thing I have to add to your post is that it is worth pointing out that the pictured machine is a, "Quick Hits Free Games Fever," or maybe it's just called, "Quick Hit Fever." Either way, this is a different machine than QHP and may well have different jackpot probabilities. I honestly have no idea if they are the same or not.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: bobbartop

This is really an old ass thread. I wasn't even a WoV member yet. But for some reason I found a link to this thread, on my hard drive. I was just cleaning up some files, found this, and I assume I had it saved because of your math work and the rest of the interesting conversation. I have what I think is a nice pic to post here, which I played on an unlinked machine, maybe a month or so ago. The 5-hit was what caught my attention, on a $3 maxbet.

PS: I hit it rather quickly, nothing else spectac, lost $16. I think the meter is 1% on the 5-hit, I'd have to check. Surprised that it got that high. A lot of short-coiners apparently.

Thanks for the compliment on the thread!

The only thing I have to add to your post is that it is worth pointing out that the pictured machine is a, "Quick Hits Free Games Fever," or maybe it's just called, "Quick Hit Fever." Either way, this is a different machine than QHP and may well have different jackpot probabilities. I honestly have no idea if they are the same or not.

I have observed higher jackpots on average on the $3 max games compared to the $1.50 max. Although they start twice as high I assume less people play max so they miss the progressive when it hits.

I agree with that, of course. I'm just saying, when it comes to +EV, I wouldn't assume that the QH probabilities are the same on a different title without having seen PAR sheets or doing an empirical.

I don't think an Empirical would be that tough given that we know the probabilities on QHP...so we kind of have a baseline of what to look for. You could probably get away with tracking the symbols (to get the average total per spin, per reel) for about 2,000 or so spins, and that will at least let you know if it's close to the same. That's about the best you're going to do, because if you want to go off the frequency of 5 QH (or more) actually hitting in one spin, it's going to take half of forever to come up with a reliable sample for that. Tens of thousands of spins before you can be particularly confident.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: bobbartop

This is really an old ass thread. I wasn't even a WoV member yet. But for some reason I found a link to this thread, on my hard drive. I was just cleaning up some files, found this, and I assume I had it saved because of your math work and the rest of the interesting conversation. I have what I think is a nice pic to post here, which I played on an unlinked machine, maybe a month or so ago. The 5-hit was what caught my attention, on a $3 maxbet.

PS: I hit it rather quickly, nothing else spectac, lost $16. I think the meter is 1% on the 5-hit, I'd have to check. Surprised that it got that high. A lot of short-coiners apparently.

Thanks for the compliment on the thread!

The only thing I have to add to your post is that it is worth pointing out that the pictured machine is a, "Quick Hits Free Games Fever," or maybe it's just called, "Quick Hit Fever." Either way, this is a different machine than QHP and may well have different jackpot probabilities. I honestly have no idea if they are the same or not.

Valid point, of course, but still, it is quite high. It's just shy of 40X max bet on the 5-hit, and I doubt if anyone has seen one that high in Vegas. I remember a couple years ago, here in California, a QHP with a max bet $1.50. A rather large bank, all linked, about 4:00 a.m. on a Sunday morning. Apparently a herd of short-coiners had run the 5-hit up over $54, and LEFT. There was no one playing. And that's the highest, proportionally, that I have seen. I sat down and pressed the button like a mad man before anyone decided to sit down. I snapped it fairly quick.

Mission - I started to look at your article list, and well, since you're too good and you've done too many of them it would probably be easier just to ask you: Have you done a write up about quick hit progressives and/or keno progressives?

Romes,

Thanks for the way too generous compliment! I certainly write a lot, I think how well is certainly up for debate. Your A-Z Blackjack guides truly represent excellence in gambling tutorials.

The short answer is not specifically. I don’t think I’ve written about QHP at all, mostly because of the existence of that thread. Keno, yes, but mostly just in the context of whether or not it’s good for an online bonus. (Almost never)

Maybe I should tackle a few Keno Progressives? I don’t know. Writing about specific land casino stuff tends not to make me the most well-liked person, sometimes.

Quote: Mission146

Romes,

Thanks for the way too generous compliment! I certainly write a lot, I think how well is certainly up for debate. Your A-Z Blackjack guides truly represent excellence in gambling tutorials.

Now how's being entirely too generous lol. Pretty sure you have at least 20x the amount of long/detailed guides =). I've read through several of them, and always enjoy the point of precision you bring to them. I've definitely learned from them!

Quote: Mission146

The short answer is not specifically. I don’t think I’ve written about QHP at all, mostly because of the existence of that thread. Keno, yes, but mostly just in the context of whether or not it’s good for an online bonus. (Almost never)

...short answer for my question, basically if the 5 hit / 6 hit reset values are lower like $10 and $25... I'm curious if there's a static trigger point even on the progressives which makes them +EV to play. Say the 5 hit was at $50 and the 6 hit was at $100, for example...

Quote: Mission146

Maybe I should tackle a few Keno Progressives? I don’t know. Writing about specific land casino stuff tends not to make me the most well-liked person, sometimes.

You've written about must hits, and just how many people still come to this forum asking questions about them =P. Not to mention, at least with progressive stuff (must hits, keno, etc) I'd think there isn't much the casino could do other than stop offering progressives, which they won't do... the fish like them too much!

Quote: Romes

Now how's being entirely too generous lol. Pretty sure you have at least 20x the amount of long/detailed guides =). I've read through several of them, and always enjoy the point of precision you bring to them. I've definitely learned from them!

Thanks for the compliment, and welcome to the club that I call, "Mission's Target Market!" I often get some criticism mostly having to do with length, much of it warranted, but some stuff has to be long. One of my main goals is to try to teach people concepts using simple math, so that if they are confronted with a similar question, they can maybe figure it out for themselves if they are really determined. I honestly believe answering an AP-related questions requires no more than a combination of Advanced Algebra and Basic Statistics/Probability some 80% of the time. For those things that do require even higher maths or simulations, you can often use the two things I mentioned to at least answer the question of if it is even worth pursuing.

Quote:

...short answer for my question, basically if the 5 hit / 6 hit reset values are lower like $10 and $25... I'm curious if there's a static trigger point even on the progressives which makes them +EV to play. Say the 5 hit was at $50 and the 6 hit was at $100, for example...

Assuming the probabilities of them hitting are the same, and using whatever minimum percentage return assumption you like, then you would just redo the math. It doesn't matter, though. Proportionally speaking, ALL Quick Hit Platinum machines return the same amount (at base) for those results as any other QHP machine and all of them have the same probabilities for those results as well as Free Games. The only variables are:

1.) What is the return percentage? (Which does have a listed/known minimum for each individual title)

AND:

2.) How much does the meter contribute? Some games, of course, can be QHP without having a Progressive at all. I've seen one upon which the only Progressive was for 9 QH symbols, although, it may not have been a QHP. I mainly saw that it was only for nine and immediately stopped caring about the machine.

Quote:

You've written about must hits, and just how many people still come to this forum asking questions about them =P. Not to mention, at least with progressive stuff (must hits, keno, etc) I'd think there isn't much the casino could do other than stop offering progressives, which they won't do... the fish like them too much!

I've taken some crap for writing about those, too, but not too much. I think I'll write one about Keno at some time in the near future, but there are a few games that have Progressives that will not be included because the very existence of those games has been told to me in confidence. I may write about a few that are straight up Keno as well as a couple variations I came to know about on my own.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: Romes

Now how's being entirely too generous lol. Pretty sure you have at least 20x the amount of long/detailed guides =). I've read through several of them, and always enjoy the point of precision you bring to them. I've definitely learned from them!

I often get some criticism mostly having to do with length, much of it warranted, but some stuff has to be long.

Allll Riiiighttt!

If you dont like smokers - play online)

And if you dont like drinkers - also play online