curious
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
• Posts: 4
April 14th, 2011 at 3:55:14 PM permalink
This system wins big when it wins. It loses your entire stake when it loses.

You need 3 bettors for this playing as a team. If you are a guy, I suggest you bring two hot girls (don't tell your wife). If you are a lady I suggest you bring two hot guys (don't tell your husband).

First, you set a win goal. With 3 players I would suggest \$3,000.
Second, determine what size bank you are willing to risk to win the win goal amount. The more you are willing to risk the higher the odds that you will meet your goal.

Play
Player 1: Play all the hardways and parlay all winnings. If you want to hedge these bets then place the 4,6,8, and 10 for the amount to hedge the hardways. The only problem with this is that the hardways pay either 7-1 or 9-1 while a hardway with a hedge pays a lot less than that. Hedging limits losses (obviously).

Player 2: Play the 2, 3, 11, and 12 and parlay all winnings. Spread the winnings across all 4 numbers. X on the 2 and 12, and 2X on the 3 and 11. That is one way to play it, the other way to play is to parlay the number which wins. Assume you start with \$1 on the 2 and 12, and the 2 hits. Now you have \$31, if that hits again, now you have \$930. Obviously, it is much more common for the 2,3,11,12 to repeat than one of those numbers to repeat in consecutive rolls.

Player 3. Play the passline and then put a reasonable amount of odds behind the passline bet. Say 5X.

After the first passline roll, buy the 4, 5, 9, and 10 and place the 6 and 8 (except the passline number) with an amount equal to the passline + the odds. On every win, parlay the entire amount. If the passline wins your next passline bet will be the previous passline bet X 2.

Anoint one player to keep a running total in their head of the total amount on the board. When this amount gets to the point where the winnings are above your win goal + any losses to this point, take down all the bets and go have a party.

This doesn't win every day (obviously), so each day adjust your win goal by whatever you have lost in previous days. So, if on day 1 you lose \$500, your win goal on day 2 is original win goal + \$500. If you lose \$500 on day 2, then you win goal for day 3 is original win goal + \$1,000. Etc.

When this is working it is a LOT of fun. When it is not working you will need anti-depression medication. This is what the two hot girls are for, if you are a guy, or the two hot guys are for, if you are a lady.
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
• Posts: 5444
April 14th, 2011 at 6:09:58 PM permalink
Oy. Why can't people be happy with a minimum pass line bet with odds, and a come bet every roll with odds, pressing the odds as you get hits?

Really, your system is fun, but you will have the best chance to win if you stay away from the crazy crapper bets.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
curious
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
• Posts: 4
April 14th, 2011 at 6:49:06 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

Oy. Why can't people be happy with a minimum pass line bet with odds, and a come bet every roll with odds, pressing the odds as you get hits?

Really, your system is fun, but you will have the best chance to win if you stay away from the crazy crapper bets.

Because I don't want to play that way.
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
• Posts: 5444
April 14th, 2011 at 9:05:21 PM permalink
That's fine. That's what those bets are there for; to give yourself more variance but at the same time providing a higher house edge. By parlaying you create even more variance, and expose more to the house edge. Tons of fun, I'm sure, but if you want to come out ahead more often, it wouldn't be the recommended method.

By the way, this relates to my house edge/"fun" matrix hypothesis. I believe the two are directly correlated.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
curious
Joined: Apr 14, 2011
• Posts: 4
April 14th, 2011 at 9:37:39 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

That's fine. That's what those bets are there for; to give yourself more variance but at the same time providing a higher house edge. By parlaying you create even more variance, and expose more to the house edge. Tons of fun, I'm sure, but if you want to come out ahead more often, it wouldn't be the recommended method.

By the way, this relates to my house edge/"fun" matrix hypothesis. I believe the two are directly correlated.

Are you saying that one would reach the win goal more often by avoiding the high vig plays? This doesn't sound right to me because if I hit the 2,3,11, or 12 back to back, that turns 1 into 150, assuming that I spread the winnings from the first bet over all 4 numbers with X on the 2 and 12 and 2X on the 3 and 11.

So, if I buy the 4, 5, 9, and 10 and place the 6 and 8, then I need a lot more hits to turn 1 into 150.

I could build a math program and test this I guess, but part of playing this way is the rush and the get in, hit it, and get out.

I'll work something up and see what it looks like.
guido111
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
• Posts: 707
April 14th, 2011 at 10:53:17 PM permalink
Quote: curious

Are you saying that one would reach the win goal more often by avoiding the high vig plays? This doesn't sound right to me because if I hit the 2,3,11, or 12 back to back, that turns 1 into 150, assuming that I spread the winnings from the first bet over all 4 numbers with X on the 2 and 12 and 2X on the 3 and 11.

I also agree with teddys statement.
I know it is not intuitive, but after doing more craps simulations, than I really want to admit to, you will have some big winning sessions. No doubt about it. Hopefully you have more than the losing sessions where there will be more of them.
You will have a better chance of having a few big wins but that will not compensate for the many, many smaller losing sessions.
Quote: curious

So, if I buy the 4, 5, 9, and 10 and place the 6 and 8, then I need a lot more hits to turn 1 into 150.

I could build a math program and test this I guess, but part of playing this way is the rush and the get in, hit it, and get out.

I'll work something up and see what it looks like.

Your computer sims will show what you can expect the longer you play that type of betting style.
At least your rock and roll will be heart pumping and very loud!
Good Luck
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
• Posts: 2520
April 14th, 2011 at 11:26:22 PM permalink
The casino will end up sending him a limo to pick him up!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 14466
April 15th, 2011 at 1:30:25 AM permalink
Quote: DeMango

The casino will end up sending him a limo to pick him up!

Yes. He wants All Hardways, plus he wants C and E, plus his PassLine w/ odds. All in the hopes that something is going to hit and hit and hit ... and then he can walk away a winner and just after he walks away that Seven will roll. Bound to happen sooner or later. Just keep making high house edge bets and hope.

If you have a high bankroll to stay in there long enough, ... fine.
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
• Posts: 6763
April 15th, 2011 at 11:48:23 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

By the way, this relates to my house edge/"fun" matrix hypothesis. I believe the two are directly correlated.

I don't think it is the HE that is related to "fun", it's the big payoff. "Big Win" = "Big Fun". You can hit your odds bets all day, and not get the same rush as hitting a hopping hardway, (hopefully, the one time you bet it, but probably, the 30th...)
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009