My Baccarat System
Quote: MDawgAgain, the way your mind works. 🥴 Odd, to say the least. Why would I expect a W-2G or check with anything other than your name on it? pursuant to my challenge above.
Post it. Your name on it will suffice to prove that you've done something like this. I assume you don't play under your own identity much if at all because you've by now burned down all the freeplay or casinos under your own identity. So if you have a RECENT check or W2-G for $25K - $75K that would tend to prove that you have experienced something like what you described above.
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If you are just trying to confirm that I have W2G in my name then let's do it your way.
Put up $50,000 and I will do the same.
I will fly out to Vegas to meet with you and the Wizard personally.
If I don't have at least $250,000 in W2G jackpots (in many different amounts, NOT a single$250,000 w2g) in my name for last year (2020) alone then you get to keep the $50,000. Otherwise I get to keep your $50,000.
I'm certain the Wizard won't mind working out the details of the challenge.
Here, you volunteered the "theory" of how this works. And are now backpedaling as to substantiating it. Yeah, I didn't think so.
If you are using required coin-in to earn points and comps, why not just use your own card? You'll just acquire them all on there.
So, it must be that you are using offers and free-play from the other peoples cards, which makes me wonder what casinos actually have offers worth the time to do that in this day and age?
For instance, my local casino gives $20 of free play to anyone who signs up the first time. After that all offers are based solely on coin in. So sure, one could multi-card for friends and family 1 time for $20 free play each. After that, you may as well coin in your own card as opposed to coin in for multiple cards.
Maybe Im missing something!
Quote: MDawgExcept that when I post a monetary challenge I make it clear from the getgo.
Here, you volunteered to provide the documentation. And are now backpedaling. Yeah, I didn't think so.
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Backpedaling? I made one single post.
What a joke you are.
EDIT: I'm probably going to get suspended for that but the chutpah of years of ridiculous challenges and see how easy MDawg wriggles out of one he would definitely lose.
SMH. I'm leaving the comment standing. Will take the suspension if deemed necessary.
Quote: darkoz
What a joke you are.
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I think you should self-suspend immediately for calling me a joke, a clear personal insult.
What it really proves though, is inability to control yourself within the confines of WOV rules. What does that say about your discipline within the casino?
Quote: MDawgQuote: darkoz
What a joke you are.
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I think you should self-suspend immediately for calling me a joke, a clear personal insult.
What it really proves though, is inability to control yourself within the confines of WOV rules. What does that say about your discipline within the casino?
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It says I am real and you are not.
Quote: mwalz9I'm very intrigued by this multi-carding system and I 100% believe every word DarkOz says. What confuses me though, and Im sure no one will ever voluntarily answer this, is how is it beneficial?
If you are using required coin-in to earn points and comps, why not just use your own card? You'll just acquire them all on there.
So, it must be that you are using offers and free-play from the other peoples cards, which makes me wonder what casinos actually have offers worth the time to do that in this day and age?
For instance, my local casino gives $20 of free play to anyone who signs up the first time. After that all offers are based solely on coin in. So sure, one could multi-card for friends and family 1 time for $20 free play each. After that, you may as well coin in your own card as opposed to coin in for multiple cards.
Maybe Im missing something!
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I've always speculated that his scheme centers around the initial free play that is given to new players without the need for coin in, hence the need to keep recruiting new marks willing to give him their free play for less than it's worth to him. Otherwise, short of DarkOz's being banned from casinos period, which would mean he could not collect a jackpot either! in his own name, why not just do everything under his own name, or under a limited number of names. There's effectively no limit to the amount of promo chips one MDawg may obtain, hence no need to spread the action among multiple MDawgs.
Quote: darkoz
Give me your card, I get freeplay, you get hotels and free food and shopping.
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Quote: MDawgExcept that when I post a monetary challenge I make it clear from the getgo.
Here, you volunteered the "theory" of how this works. And are now backpedaling as to substantiating it. Yeah, I didn't think so.
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And if I am suspended for insult to MDawg I request he be suspended for stating I backpedaled on the challenge. It is clear from the single post I made that this is a lie.
His accusations towards me insulting my integrity.
EDIT: Oh and now I see he changed the wording of the quote so it has a different meaning. Lol, wow!
But it's memorialized a few posts above.
Quote: MDawgQuote: mwalz9I'm very intrigued by this multi-carding system and I 100% believe every word DarkOz says. What confuses me though, and Im sure no one will ever voluntarily answer this, is how is it beneficial?
If you are using required coin-in to earn points and comps, why not just use your own card? You'll just acquire them all on there.
So, it must be that you are using offers and free-play from the other peoples cards, which makes me wonder what casinos actually have offers worth the time to do that in this day and age?
For instance, my local casino gives $20 of free play to anyone who signs up the first time. After that all offers are based solely on coin in. So sure, one could multi-card for friends and family 1 time for $20 free play each. After that, you may as well coin in your own card as opposed to coin in for multiple cards.
Maybe Im missing something!
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I've always speculated that his scheme centers around the initial free play that is given to new players without the need for coin in, hence the need to keep recruiting new marks willing to give him their free play for less than it's worth to him. Otherwise, short of DarkOz's being banned from casinos period, which would mean he could not collect a jackpot either! in his own name, why not just do everything under his own name, or under a limited number of names. There's effectively no limit to the amount of promo chips one MDawg may obtain, hence no need to spread the action among multiple MDawgs.
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To the forum members in the know you are really making yourself look bad with these theories of yours.
Not sure that's even possible since most see you in a bad light already.
Quote: darkoz
Because it's not illegal.
You know things aren't illegal....until they are. It only takes a judge or court to rule in favor of a casinos, right or wrong, and that happens all the time. Call it influence or whatever. At that point you get caught up in appeals and legal expenses and all that....even if you are right.
I would love to know what happened to the case in Pa I am referring to (against a team of players). It all of the sudden disappeared from the news. I suspect a settlement was reached on lesser charges and a fine or something. But it is sort of important to know because that sets precedent.
The case in Colorado was even more bizarre. It was against family members playing on each others cards. They may have been APing to some degree but it was not at a professional level. That case also just disappeared from the news. I suspect that one may have just been dropped. When it became public, it generated a lot of bad press.
I just get the feeling as time goes on what you do will become harder and harder. Both you and Axelwolf spoke of maybe needing to adjust. That is what good AP's do. But I just think you may soon enter into that phase.
I also wonder, here in Las Vegas, in recent years, even before covid, mailer offers which were so lucrative only 5-6 years ago, really were cut dramatically lead by local casino chains Boyd and Stations. Several local players like Alan have mentioned this in the past. It is the reason my machine play has all but ceased. I can't help but wonder if this response was not in direct response to more people and teams doing what you guys are doing. I am not blaming anyone. That is the way things work. Just saying....
The only suspension worthy insult laid here was by DarkOz.
Quote: mwalz9I'm very intrigued by this multi-carding system and I 100% believe every word DarkOz says. What confuses me though, and Im sure no one will ever voluntarily answer this, is how is it beneficial?
If you are using required coin-in to earn points and comps, why not just use your own card? You'll just acquire them all on there.
So, it must be that you are using offers and free-play from the other peoples cards, which makes me wonder what casinos actually have offers worth the time to do that in this day and age?
For instance, my local casino gives $20 of free play to anyone who signs up the first time. After that all offers are based solely on coin in. So sure, one could multi-card for friends and family 1 time for $20 free play each. After that, you may as well coin in your own card as opposed to coin in for multiple cards.
Maybe Im missing something!
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If there is +EV with it using your own card, then your total EV will be that multiplied by however many cards you are using less what you pay for the additional cards.
Quote: MDawgQuote: mwalz9I'm very intrigued by this multi-carding system and I 100% believe every word DarkOz says. What confuses me though, and Im sure no one will ever voluntarily answer this, is how is it beneficial?
If you are using required coin-in to earn points and comps, why not just use your own card? You'll just acquire them all on there.
So, it must be that you are using offers and free-play from the other peoples cards, which makes me wonder what casinos actually have offers worth the time to do that in this day and age?
For instance, my local casino gives $20 of free play to anyone who signs up the first time. After that all offers are based solely on coin in. So sure, one could multi-card for friends and family 1 time for $20 free play each. After that, you may as well coin in your own card as opposed to coin in for multiple cards.
Maybe Im missing something!
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I've always speculated that his scheme centers around the initial free play that is given to new players without the need for coin in, hence the need to keep recruiting new marks willing to give him their free play for less than it's worth to him. Otherwise, short of DarkOz's being banned from casinos period, which would mean he could not collect a jackpot either! in his own name, why not just do everything under his own name, or under a limited number of names. There's effectively no limit to the amount of promo chips one MDawg may obtain, hence no need to spread the action among multiple MDawgs.Quote: darkoz
Give me your card, I get freeplay, you get hotels and free food and shopping.
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Your speculation is totally wrong. Most casinos do not have great new member offers.
I’ve explained in an earlier post precisely how it works, though my example (and what I’ve done personally and on my own) is very small scale compared to what others are doing.
Quote: MDawgI understand that he plays slots. I don't play slots, but I assume that slots are a straight losing proposition. The reason my perpetual comp machine works, is I win at the tables. So if it's possible to win at slots (wind up ahead), why doesn't everyone on this forum go play slots?
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Because you haven’t read my post a few pages back yet.
Quote: Mission146I guess not totally wrong, but there certainly aren’t many promotions that would call for getting cards just to do multiple promotions, and of those few there were, they’re a bit more complicated than that.
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Meaning?
Quote: MDawgI understand that he plays slots. I don't play slots, but I assume that slots are a straight losing proposition. The reason my perpetual comp machine works, is I win at the tables. So if it's possible to win at slots (wind up ahead), why doesn't everyone on this forum go play slots?
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So, why doesn't every one on this forum go play baccarat?
Quote: mwalz9
So, why doesn't every one on this forum go play baccarat?
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The $50 or $100 minimums...
Quote: kewljQuote: darkoz
Because it's not illegal.
You know things aren't illegal....until they are. It only takes a judge or court to rule in favor of a casinos, right or wrong, and that happens all the time. Call it influence or whatever. At that point you get caught up in appeals and legal expenses and all that....even if you are right.
I would love to know what happened to the case in Pa I am referring to (against a team of players). It all of the sudden disappeared from the news. I suspect a settlement was reached on lesser charges and a fine or something. But it is sort of important to know because that sets precedent.
The case in Colorado was even more bizarre. It was against family members playing on each others cards. They may have been APing to some degree but it was not at a professional level. That case also just disappeared from the news. I suspect that one may have just been dropped. When it became public, it generated a lot of bad press.
I just get the feeling as time goes on what you do will become harder and harder. Both you and Axelwolf spoke of maybe needing to adjust. That is what good AP's do. But I just think you may soon enter into that phase.
I also wonder, here in Las Vegas, in recent years, even before covid, mailer offers which were so lucrative only 5-6 years ago, really were cut dramatically lead by local casino chains Boyd and Stations. Several local players like Alan have mentioned this in the past. It is the reason my machine play has all but ceased. I can't help but wonder if this response was not in direct response to more people and teams doing what you guys are doing. I am not blaming anyone. That is the way things work. Just saying....
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There has to be a crime for a judge to decide on it.
What I mean by that is judges DON'T make the law (not in criminal issues at least). They enforce the law
Use of other person's access device (credit cards, casino cards, CVS cards) are set by state lawmakers.
Those laws are on the books. I don't violate them.
Now state legislators could change existing laws. Yes, then I would have a problem or I would move onto a different play perhaps.
But saying it's legal until it isn't is like me saying card counting is legal until it isn't.
As for the Colorado and PA cases disappearing, most likely scenario is charges were dropped when the overzealous DA realized no laws were broken.
Quote: MDawgOkay well that assumes then that the DarkOz is playing slots somehow differently from the average slots player?
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No, it doesn’t assume that. Until you have read and demonstrated an understanding of my post, I will no longer address you in this thread.
Quote: MDawgQuote: Mission146I guess not totally wrong, but there certainly aren’t many promotions that would call for getting cards just to do multiple promotions, and of those few there were, they’re a bit more complicated than that.
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Meaning?
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If it was my intent to give you examples of such promotions, then I’d have already done that.
If you wish to know how card running with no specific good promotion works, then read my earlier post.
Quote: MDawgIf that post of yours were so definitive why are so many questioning the DarkOz in subsequent posts?
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It’s not definitive, but I spelled out the basic method…which I’m sure is more than anyone else is going to just hand you…especially since you seem to be well bankrolled enough to do it on a large scale.
Quote: Mission146Quote: MDawgIf that post of yours were so definitive why are so many questioning the DarkOz in subsequent posts?
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It’s not definitive, but I spelled out the basic method…which I’m sure is more than anyone else is going to just hand you…especially since you seem to be well bankrolled enough to do it on a large scale.
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Well there is the irony.
MDawg could quickly become a team leader of massive proportions. Bigger than my own operations based on his bankroll.
But he doesn't understand how to do it.
If he does figure it out he will realize he has actually been bragging about being massively under-comped with his "perpetual comp machine"
Quote: darkoz
There has to be a crime for a judge to decide on it.
What I mean by that is judges DON'T make the law (not in criminal issues at least). They enforce the law
Now state legislators could change existing laws. Yes, then I would have a problem or I would move onto a different play perhaps.
But saying it's legal until it isn't is like me saying card counting is legal until it isn't.
This isn't correct. Just because a state legislature writes rules and calls it law does not make it legal. That is why there are challenges that go to a judge or court. Same thing at the federal level with congress and even the President. How many times in recent years have we seen things congress, or the President has done, overturned by courts?
Now it so happens, I don't believe the legislation in Pa, the way it is written involving card counters is legal and would withstand a court challenge and appeals to a higher court. Specifically, I don't think Pennsylvania can bar players like the regulations say and that is all they are until they withstand a challenge. I have spoken to Mr. Nersesian about this years ago and he agreed with me.
Now because I moved away from Pa just as table games became legal, I had no interest in challenging this, and probably wouldn't even if I had stayed there. I mean winning that kind of case, would be no "win". They would just adopt New Jersey mentality and offer only crappy games.
But my point is that just because some legislature writes a regulation (with influence from the Casino lobby), doesn't make it legal. Withstanding a court challenge makes it legal.
Quote: MDawgIf I understand the system you describe correctly, it requires not just bankroll but droves of people willing to basically give up their birthright for a bowl of cold porridge. In my peer group, there are too many chiefs not as many Indians. I could find marks willing to get about nothing compared to what I'm getting, but I wouldn't feel good about it.
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That’s your prerogative. Many people in various groups aren’t inclined to ever visit a particular casino (or it might be out of their area) anyway.
Given my previous experience getting cards for people, and my limited social circle, making several hundred dollars in one day was plenty of incentive for many.
Since those people would have not only never went to those casinos anyway, but also never would have had the bankroll (not even a term they would use) to generate the offers, it was kind of win-win for all involved.
For cards that I personally purchased for my own use, it would usually see people get paid $100 for what took them less than an hour—including travel time.
Quote: MDawgIf I understand the system you describe correctly, it requires not just bankroll but droves of people willing to basically give up their birthright for a bowl of cold porridge. In my peer group, there are too many chiefs not as many Indians. I could find marks willing to get about nothing compared to what I'm getting, but I might not feel good about it. If I'm selling something, I generally need to believe first most that it is beneficial for both me and you.
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Does cold porridge cost $400 these days?
Quote: darkoz
Does cold porridge cost $400 these days?link to original post
It does at the restaurant of the casino he stays at!
the difference between MDawg and Mission and DarkOz
Mission and DarkOz both claim to be winners and both provide if not proofs, substantially logical explanations of how it is accomplished
MDawg claims giant wins but provides nothing logical about how it is accomplished
he indicates he is somehow able to defy the groundwork of mathematics and probability - that what must be somehow doesn't apply to him
good luck with that, anybody who goes that route - you're going to need it
.
Quote: MDawgExcept that when I post a monetary challenge I make it clear from the getgo.
Here, you volunteered the "theory" of how this works. And are now backpedaling as to substantiating it. Yeah, I didn't think so.
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He did make it clear from the get go. That was his first post with a challenge. And he didn’t back pedal. You challenged him (with nothing at risk for you) to show a W2G for $25k and he offered to show you multiple W2Gs totaling $250k.
Everything seems clear to me. You turned down the challenge.
And then today, pretty much no one who fails to pay a casino marker gets away without a district attorney referral, unless the casino decides not to proceed in that manner.
So new laws do not always need to be passed for old ones to be interpreted in new ways....
Quote: MDawgAgain, that's "not every hour" so that $400. an hour statement is as meaningless as your "$20,000. a week" (but not every week) claim. None of that may be questioned or even analyzed deeply because by your own admission the figures are not consistent, therefore, by traditional measures, completely inaccurate.
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Nobody thinks a per hour wage is “every hour.” Nobody divides their daily earnings by 24 hours.
Quote: kewljQuote: darkoz
There has to be a crime for a judge to decide on it.
What I mean by that is judges DON'T make the law (not in criminal issues at least). They enforce the law
Now state legislators could change existing laws. Yes, then I would have a problem or I would move onto a different play perhaps.
But saying it's legal until it isn't is like me saying card counting is legal until it isn't.
This isn't correct. Just because a state legislature writes rules and calls it law does not make it legal. That is why there are challenges that go to a judge or court. Same thing at the federal level with congress and even the President. How many times in recent years have we seen things congress, or the President has done, overturned by courts?
Now it so happens, I don't believe the legislation in Pa, the way it is written involving card counters is legal and would withstand a court challenge and appeals to a higher court. Specifically, I don't think Pennsylvania can bar players like the regulations say and that is all they are until they withstand a challenge. I have spoken to Mr. Nersesian about this years ago and he agreed with me.
Now because I moved away from Pa just as table games became legal, I had no interest in challenging this, and probably wouldn't even if I had stayed there. I mean winning that kind of case, would be no "win". They would just adopt New Jersey mentality and offer only crappy games.
But my point is that just because some legislature writes a regulation (with influence from the Casino lobby), doesn't make it legal. Withstanding a court challenge makes it legal.
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I think you are conflating civil with criminal law.
The state legislators set the criminal law. If those laws violate your civil rights then a challenge can be brought that invalidates them
A judge must still follow the law as written until such higher court overturns on civil rights issues.
The law in Pennsylvania is quite specific on "Access Device Laws". It is illegal to use another person's access device (i.e. credit card, casino cards etc) without the permission of the person who the card was bestowed. (I am paraphrasing but I have read it.)
It's not illegal otherwise.
Some laws are badly written so they can be twisted in meaning but not that one. Most states have similar laws.
Put it to you this way. No one has ever been prosecuted for using another person's players card in the US with the players permission. If you think I am wrong Google such a case. You won't fine one.
Quote: lilredrooster_________
the difference between MDawg and Mission and DarkOz
Mission and DarkOz both claim to be winners and both provide if not proofs, substantially logical explanations of how it is accomplished
MDawg claims giant wins but provides nothing logical about how it is accomplished
he indicates he is somehow able to defy the groundwork of mathematics and probability - that what must be somehow doesn't apply to him
good luck with that, anybody who goes that route - you're going to need it
.
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Well, for the record, I’m not presently engaged in multi-carding of my own. Between writing, vulturing, PA Skill Games and online casino stuff, I have more than enough going on to generate more money than necessary to meet my needs.
Multi-Carding is also a bigger PITA than any of the other things mentioned.
Also, most of the people who I know to be engaged in Multi-Carding are large scale and enjoy making tons of money. They also seem to like spending lots of time in casinos. Myself, I’m quite satisfied with my standing and how little is required of me to maintain it.
My point is, none of the numbers behind anything I personally do or likely will ever personally do should be impressive to anyone. If I ever gave any impression to the contrary, then I apologize.
There will likely be a thread split, because this is way off topic for a baccarat martingale thread.
I do find the discussion most intriguing, and hope that it continues (preferably while maintaining decorum, or at least the pretense of civility).
I'm not aware of any obligation to provide proof.
Quote: lilredrooster_________
the difference between MDawg and Mission and DarkOz
Mission and DarkOz both claim to be winners and both provide if not proofs, substantially logical explanations of how it is accomplished
MDawg claims giant wins but provides nothing logical about how it is accomplished
he indicates he is somehow able to defy the groundwork of mathematics and probability - that what must be somehow doesn't apply to him
good luck with that, anybody who goes that route - you're going to need it
.
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Baccarat is a negative expectation game. There is no way to overcome that other than cheating. Luck will only get you so far. My understanding is he’s using some form of a martingale where he buys in bigger and bets bigger after losses. So much so that a huge win merely covered the previous losses to get about back to even. I’d have to see if I can find the thread and post. I believe it was from a moderator.
Marty’s can ensure up to 95% winning session percentage. That one or two losers will be a killer.
Quote: MDawgUnjon, Are you defending the "I make $20,000. a week" statement as accurate in any traditional sense?
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No. That one isn’t defensible.
Quote: MDawgAs far as this discussion of what is legal or illegal with reference to casinos. Consider that years ago credit line markers if unpaid were simply processed civilly. At some point in Nevada (and other states) they were considered checks and prosecuted as bad checks criminally, under most circumstances, if unpaid. The laws on the books didn't change, I don't believe a new law came out in Nevada that included casino markers in the category of checks, rather, the casinos started prosecuting offenders criminally, the convictions were challenged and the courts interpreted the existing laws as applying to casino markers under most circumstances.
And then today, pretty much no one who fails to pay a casino marker gets away without a district attorney referral, unless the casinos decide not to proceed in that manner.
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The DA prosecutes, not the casinos. They got them to do the dirty work.
Quote: MDawgUnjon, Are you defending the "I make $20,000. a week" statement as accurate in any traditional sense?
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I make $20,000 a week when I am working.
I make zero a week when I am not working.
I don't work every week.
But when I do I make $20,000.
Hence I make $20,000 a week but not every week.
I really don't get why this is such a difficult concept.
Quote: unJonQuote: MDawgUnjon, Are you defending the "I make $20,000. a week" statement as accurate in any traditional sense?
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No. That one isn’t defensible.
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Well then what I am saying is that perhaps this some sort of "imprecision" is being utilized within the DarkOz claim of his workers' making "$400. an hour."
Quote: MDawgQuote: unJonQuote: MDawgUnjon, Are you defending the "I make $20,000. a week" statement as accurate in any traditional sense?
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No. That one isn’t defensible.
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Well then what I am saying is that perhaps this some sort of "imprecision" is being utilized within the DarkOz claim of his workers' making "$400. an hour."
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I've already explained how a person can make $400 just the first hour he works for me by signing up for a player's card.
It appears the world is imprecise because they can't understand that someone might not work every week of the year.
Crazy.
There is no imprecision about my making$20,000 a week but not every week. Only imprecision in how people understand it.
Quote: MDawgI understand that he plays slots. I don't play slots, but I assume that slots are a straight losing proposition. The reason my perpetual comp machine works, is I win at the tables. So if it's possible to win at slots (wind up ahead), why doesn't everyone on this forum go play slots?
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Because it is work. Dark has to scout out what casinos are offering. Has to arrange personnel to be there at certain times. He has to instruct on the best ways to maximize results. He has to be aware of how not to be found out. He has to be alert for changing terms. And a bunch more I’m not aware of.
Anyone who just goes and plays random slots will just tend to lose. If you are smart enough, resourceful enough, pretty much anyone can do it, if they are willing to put the time and effort in.
Quote: TDVegasQuote: lilredrooster_________
the difference between MDawg and Mission and DarkOz
Mission and DarkOz both claim to be winners and both provide if not proofs, substantially logical explanations of how it is accomplished
MDawg claims giant wins but provides nothing logical about how it is accomplished
he indicates he is somehow able to defy the groundwork of mathematics and probability - that what must be somehow doesn't apply to him
good luck with that, anybody who goes that route - you're going to need it
.
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.
Baccarat is a negative expectation game. There is no way to overcome that other than cheating. Luck will only get you so far. My understanding is he’s using some form of a martingale where he buys in bigger and bets bigger after losses. So much so that a huge win merely covered the previous losses to get about back to even. I’d have to see if I can find the thread and post. I believe it was from a moderator.
Marty’s can ensure up to 95% winning session percentage. That one or two losers will be a killer.
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just what a forum like this needs_________𝙉𝙊𝙏
a guy bragging about his winnings coming from some version of the martingale__________oh please
.
