The Adventures of MDawg II
Rather poetic too.
So basically it's an empty challenge designed in a fashion you know will never happen and nothing will be proven.Quote: MDawgNo I am not interested in any sort of challenge for less than a substantial sum of money, partly because if the person who made this challenge (yes, you and I suspect who it is), is so sure that it cannot be done, I want to teach him a lesson that he will never forget. And if that person can't even come up with the sum I have in mind, that will be further proof that he's a _____.
And also because, why not? I know I can do it, and now UnJon has even stepped forward and said that it's not a big deal which is what I said from the beginning, so why not take someone for a huge sum if he's fool enough to challenge me.
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If I'm playing up to special limits, well beyond $___ K a hand, then I'm not going to show up or care about proving anything for a bowl of cold porridge.
I already proved myself once for $2000. but even that was during a period before I amped it up to special limits and ridiculously high credit lines. Also I was an unknown at that time. Now established, I'd probably want $20,000. for the DarkOz Challenge today. I feel that I have less to prove, today.
Plus this has to do with rubbing it in the face of anyone who bit off more than he could chew with questioning my abilities. If such a person wants a chance to prove that I can't do what I claim, he'll need to put together all his red chips, and even the green ones too.
And in any case, if you thought I'd fail the challenge you know very well that you'd put up any amount of money against me.
You had a complete insane +EV free roll with basically no rules. I don't think DarkOz really thought it out very well. You didn't bet that long and you didn't bet anywhere near high roller status. You did prove you come to Vegas, you're not completely full of @#&T, and you're willing to take advantage of a very generous free roll.Quote: MDawgIf I'm a red to green player, then I'm going to want very little for my time.
If I'm playing up to special limits, well beyond $___ K a hand, then I'm not going to show up or care about proving anything for a bowl of cold porridge.
I already proved myself once for $2000. but even that was during a period before I amped it up to special limits and ridiculously high credit lines. Also I was an unknown at that time. Now established, I'd probably want $20,000. for the DarkOz Challenge today. I feel that I have less to prove, today.
Plus this has to do with rubbing it in the face of anyone who bit off more than he could chew with questioning my abilities. If such a person wants a chance to prove that I can't do what I claim, he'll need to put together all his red chips, and even the green ones too.
And in any case, if you thought I'd fail the challenge you know very well that you'd put up any amount of money against me.
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We haven't any idea who brought your unlikely claims up with Mike. I almost think it may be someone legitimate or Mike would've ignored it. How or why that person even noticed in the first place probably has something to do with JK, but that doesn't really matter. The claims are highly suspect and KJ wasn't the first and won't be the last to find those claims crazy and unbelievable. There have been many more highly suspicious claims you have made. Mike let you out of the 50 "some" winning hands of BJ in a row.
I used to waste more time on responding, not for at least a couple years now.
I don't have the need to post ten thousand word essays on the subject. I let the stacks of $25K chips and six figure winning checks speak for themselves. And again we get back to that you should know that no casino issues checks for a penny more than winnings, not to mention that my checks are marked as VERIFIED PIT WINNINGS.
You could always take up the MDawg Challenge, or any of the other challenges I've proposed over the years, including verifying trip winnings, or that the Win/Loss statements I've posted cover every casino I have played at. As far as I know, no one has ever verified anything about you other than through hearsay, versus some kind of documentary or witnessed proof. No challenges, no in person contests, no postings of win loss statement videos, no viewing of winning checks, nothing like that, right? But you have made some posts that show that you don't know how things work.
Just a simple thing - if you still think that a casino will issue a paper check for other than return of non-cash deposit, or verified winnings, means that I can't take you seriously. And any check marked VERIFIED PIT WINNINGS means that and only that. I got a million of 'em.
I'm sorry but pictures of chips, markers, and checks are meaningless. It doesn't mean you are winning, losing or even actually betting. Your challenges are not legitimate challenges anyone could take seriously they are far too muddy and complex and really they don't prove anything. Its a big bet bluff it's one-sided as you will never accept a challenge that's actually legitimate for the challenger.Quote: MDawgI just post what I do, I respond to some questions, and then go back to what I do.
I used to waste more time on responding, not for at least a couple years now.
I don't have the need to post ten thousand word essays on the subject. I let the stacks of $25K chips and six figure winning checks speak for themselves. And again we get back to if you knew anything about how this worked, you'd know that no casino issues checks for a penny more than winnings, not to mention that my checks are marked as VERIFIED PIT WINNINGS. You can't get too deep arguing with someone who doesn't know how things work.
You could always take up the MDawg Challenge, or any of the other challenges I've proposed over the years, including verifying trip winnings, or that the Win/Loss statements I've posted cover every casino I have played at. As far as I know, no one has ever verified anything about you other than through hearsay. No challenges, no in person contests, nothing. But you have made some posts that show that you don't know how things work.
Just a simple thing - if you still think that a casino will issue a paper check for other than return of non-cash deposit, or verified winnings, means that I can't take you seriously. And any check marked VERIFIED PIT WINNINGS means that and only that. I got a million of 'em.
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How about if you go deposit $9000. cash at the cage at Wynn, go play a few hands of whatever, such that your win or loss is in the hundreds of dollars only, and then go back to the cage and get one check for the entire withdrawal - the $9000. plus or minus the few hundred.
If you can do that, I'll give you $25,000.
If you cannot, you will give me $25,000.
At least you should know what you need to do or not do to even get the cage to accept your money. But you won't get a check for other than the few hundred you might win, no matter what.
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
I'll leave this Challenge offer open until tomorrow. If you accept it we can figure out how to police it, but we really need little policing because you cannot get it done.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
How about I get a check from the casino.Quote: MDawgThe fact that you say that, shows me how little you know about how casinos work.
How about if you go deposit $9000. cash at the cage at Wynn, go play a few hands of whatever, such that your win or loss is in the hundreds of dollars only, and then go back to the cage and get one check for the entire withdrawal - the $9000. plus or minus the few hundred.
If you can do that, I'll give you $25,000.
If you cannot, you will give me $25,000.
At least you should know what you need to do or not do to even get the cage to accept your money. But you won't get a check for other than the few hundred you might win, no matter what.
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
I'll leave this Challenge offer open until tomorrow. If you accept it we can figure out how to police it, but we really need little policing because you cannot get it done.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
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I haven't any clue why they are issuing you a check, that's all based on your word. I don't know if you're winning or losing overall. You said before you have referred big players, for all, I know they are paying you kickbacks in chips and whatever you cash out is requested via check. Whatever the case, you haven't really given a logical answer to Mike's question.
Quote: MDawg
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
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I am talking about casino cage checks. Do you know what those are? Have you ever been issued one?
I'd probably start a front money account at the casino with that check pictured above though.
If you have chips that they cannot tie to a verified win, within reason they might cash them anyway, but only for cash, not for a check. You got a few K they don't know where you found, they won't ask questions of a known player, but they will cash them only not issue a check for the mysterious source chips. You have a 100K chip, it's not getting cashed whatsoever unless they know where it came from.
The reason for the checks may be issued only for verified wins rule is anti-money laundering. Unless you are a real player in Vegas you wouldn't know how strict the casinos have become over not issuing a check for even a penny over what the pit has reported as the win. And with how fanatical the pit has become with trying to track every chip that leaves or is introduced into the rack, at least at high limit where I play (the cocktail waitresses call some of the areas outside high limit, "The Ghetto.") Some of it has to do with trying to track player win/losses but a lot of it has to do with how strict casino compliance departments have gotten with trying to prevent any form of money laundering.
Really what it comes down to is - the casino doesn't want to be guilty of facilitating money laundering, so they take measures to make sure it doesn't happen.
You start thinking you can always win big. But you can't.
That last trip I had big losses 3 out of 7 sessions towards the end. Not something you're in a hurry to go back to really, the up and down really is taxing.
I don't really have to look closely to know that that sort of percentage is much worse than what I was achieving in prior trips. And the trip before this most recent one, I also had more losing sessions than before.
I can't imagine I'd last 10 minutes in their casino.
Which is why AxelWolf would go in there, and no amount of talk or pretending to do this or that would get him anywhere - they wouldn't care if he understood how things work or not 😆 - he'd go in with $9K cash and not be able to convert anything but verified winnings to check.
Quote: ChumpChangeThat TV show Vegas with James Caan a couple decades ago seemed to emphasize busting loitering money launderers in their casino. Some mob-looking guy gets $5K in chips, plays for 20 minutes, then cashes out.
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Here's one way someone could get busted.
AWolf and PGrinder go into the same casino, careful not to be seen together. Both buy 9K of chips at the tables. They don't play much, or at all, preserve the whole 9K, walk off.
Outside the casino PGrinder hands AWolf his chips. The Wolf goes back inside and to a table, plays, and in a reverse SooPoo move, introduces, gradually all of the 9K in chips from PGrinder to the table to combine with his own 9K in chips until he has 18K in front of him, or more, if he actually has won anything at the table. When he walks, he makes sure that the pit boss notes that he has over 18K in chips. The pit boss, puzzled because he never noted the Wolf winning much, counts his rack and realizes that it isn't missing anything - there isn't 9K missing. He's reluctant to notate a 9K win under such circumstances, and it's a big enough deal that he calls surveillance to try to figure out how someone walked with +9K when his rack shows nothing missing.
Meantime the Wolf has headed to the cage, to get his 9K cash and 9K check, and go see MDawg and collect his 25K in winnings for their Wager. The cage doesn't see any record of a win, and can't issue a check. Eventually the casino determines that Wolf was just trying to show a win where there was none.
With luck, nothing more happens, other than the cage refuses to issue Wolf any more than face value cash for his chips.
More likely, the cage refuses to cash any more than 9K of Wolf's chips at all, until he accounts for where he got the other 9K.
With bad luck, Wolf gets busted for attempted money laundering.
And in all cases, he owes me $25K.
It's a hypothetical, and I am not saying that Wolf or PGrinder would try anything like that. You may substitute anyone's name or no one's name in there for those two. But it is illustrated to demonstrate that casinos just won't allow cash to be converted to check.
And to illustrate that it is money laundering for a casino to convert anyone's cash to check - or that anyone who does manage to get a casino to convert his cash to check, is guilty of money laundering. Casinos, especially in recent times, just don't want that to happen, and have taken great measures to prevent it.
Quote: MDawgYes, everything that happened was exactly as posted however it seems that some got the mis-impression that I bet nothing but 100 or 5000 bets. When I wrote that "I jammed the bet whenever the count was high enough and my total recall of every card played and the sequence of the most recent cards out, told me to jam it up there." I meant that "I jammed the bet" up there well above 100, not to 5000 every time.
I did not have that impression. However, I should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?
Quote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Rain Man was fictionalized but what enabled him to do what he did was not just ability to remember every card played, but ability to track every card the way he tracked all those toothpicks that fell on the ground. He was able to watch the cards as they were shuffled and know where each one was placed. "There's lots of them." He didn't just know that there were a lot of queens left in the deck but where they had landed and where they would be coming out. The ultimate in shuffle tracking.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.
Quote:During the play there was a time I did bet 5000 that I expected at least a twenty but got a blackjack. Another time I got an 11 and the expected face/ten fell for 21, for a 10000 win. Another time I doubled with 5000 out there and got a stupid 5 but the expected tens landed later to bust the dealer who had a 6 up, with what turned out to be a 10 underneath.
I didn't want any yellows whenever the dealers tried to give me them I'd refuse them. Actually, I don't think there's even a day when I'm in high limit that I don't see at least one player stubbornly refusing to be paid in a certain color of chips, especially a certain high denomination one. They probably just figured I was some kind of superstitious player who wanted only color for color, but I wanted to see if I could get all the 500s and I did. The lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session actually which is probably why I was able to empty before a fill came in, and then I left.
If I told you which casino this was and what time it was, you'd probably understand better why there was no fill, too.
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I don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
My most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
As to the challenges, I hope to see someone accept the card memorization one. I'm happy to judge, assist, and/or bet against you, depending on the details, but I won't bet more than low four figures on it.
As to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
Now, doing that while actively playing Blackjack, using perfect basic strategy, AND counting cards, that probably ramps up the difficulty again.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: tuttigym
Sounds like another EB to move the goal posts and thus intimidate the skeptics.
tuttigym
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What you don't know about it would fill a football field and what you do know would fill a thimble.
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Oh, look, another personal insult from EvenBob. What are the odds.
I haven't any Idea why or how he is getting those checks. It doesn't prove someone is winning. I am certain I too can get a check from a casino, there are multiple different ways.Quote: WizardQuote: MDawgYes, everything that happened was exactly as posted however it seems that some got the mis-impression that I bet nothing but 100 or 5000 bets. When I wrote that "I jammed the bet whenever the count was high enough and my total recall of every card played and the sequence of the most recent cards out, told me to jam it up there." I meant that "I jammed the bet" up there well above 100, not to 5000 every time.
I did not have that impression. However, I should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?Quote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Rain Man was fictionalized but what enabled him to do what he did was not just ability to remember every card played, but ability to track every card the way he tracked all those toothpicks that fell on the ground. He was able to watch the cards as they were shuffled and know where each one was placed. "There's lots of them." He didn't just know that there were a lot of queens left in the deck but where they had landed and where they would be coming out. The ultimate in shuffle tracking.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.Quote:During the play there was a time I did bet 5000 that I expected at least a twenty but got a blackjack. Another time I got an 11 and the expected face/ten fell for 21, for a 10000 win. Another time I doubled with 5000 out there and got a stupid 5 but the expected tens landed later to bust the dealer who had a 6 up, with what turned out to be a 10 underneath.
I didn't want any yellows whenever the dealers tried to give me them I'd refuse them. Actually, I don't think there's even a day when I'm in high limit that I don't see at least one player stubbornly refusing to be paid in a certain color of chips, especially a certain high denomination one. They probably just figured I was some kind of superstitious player who wanted only color for color, but I wanted to see if I could get all the 500s and I did. The lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session actually which is probably why I was able to empty before a fill came in, and then I left.
If I told you which casino this was and what time it was, you'd probably understand better why there was no fill, too.
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I don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
My most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
As to the challenges, I hope to see someone accept the card memorization one. I'm happy to judge, assist, and/or bet against you, depending on the details, but I won't bet more than low four figures on it.
As to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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Quote: AxelWolfI haven't any Idea why or how he is getting those checks. It doesn't prove someone is winning. I am certain I too can get a check from a casino, there are multiple different ways.Quote: WizardQuote: MDawgYes, everything that happened was exactly as posted however it seems that some got the mis-impression that I bet nothing but 100 or 5000 bets. When I wrote that "I jammed the bet whenever the count was high enough and my total recall of every card played and the sequence of the most recent cards out, told me to jam it up there." I meant that "I jammed the bet" up there well above 100, not to 5000 every time.
I did not have that impression. However, I should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?Quote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Rain Man was fictionalized but what enabled him to do what he did was not just ability to remember every card played, but ability to track every card the way he tracked all those toothpicks that fell on the ground. He was able to watch the cards as they were shuffled and know where each one was placed. "There's lots of them." He didn't just know that there were a lot of queens left in the deck but where they had landed and where they would be coming out. The ultimate in shuffle tracking.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.Quote:During the play there was a time I did bet 5000 that I expected at least a twenty but got a blackjack. Another time I got an 11 and the expected face/ten fell for 21, for a 10000 win. Another time I doubled with 5000 out there and got a stupid 5 but the expected tens landed later to bust the dealer who had a 6 up, with what turned out to be a 10 underneath.
I didn't want any yellows whenever the dealers tried to give me them I'd refuse them. Actually, I don't think there's even a day when I'm in high limit that I don't see at least one player stubbornly refusing to be paid in a certain color of chips, especially a certain high denomination one. They probably just figured I was some kind of superstitious player who wanted only color for color, but I wanted to see if I could get all the 500s and I did. The lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session actually which is probably why I was able to empty before a fill came in, and then I left.
If I told you which casino this was and what time it was, you'd probably understand better why there was no fill, too.
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I don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
My most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
As to the challenges, I hope to see someone accept the card memorization one. I'm happy to judge, assist, and/or bet against you, depending on the details, but I won't bet more than low four figures on it.
As to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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Sounds like we have a potential challenge then around whether Axel can get a cage check without having verified winnings. Assuming people come to terms on how to judge that. What is taking coachbelly so long to show up here?
Quote: unJon
Sounds like we have a potential challenge then around whether Axel can get a cage check without having verified winnings. Assuming people come to terms on how to judge that. What is taking coachbelly so long to show up here?
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There might be two reasons why the Wolf thinks he can get a casino cage to issue him a check without winning.
(1) He's never gotten a cage check for a table win his entire life.
(2) He hasn't gotten a cage check in many years.
If either of the above is true, that would explain his position.
All you would have to do nowadays to begin to understand how this works is get up from a table game where you have either bought in for cash or been playing strictly on credit and been winning (or not winning), take your chips to the cage, and see if you can get a check for a penny more than the verified win the pit boss has turned in. Anyone who has done that, would know how this works. Anyone who has not, would not know.
In any case, I already proposed the wager
Quote: MDawgThe fact that you say that, shows me how little you know about how casinos work.
How about if you go deposit $9000. cash at the cage at Wynn, go play a few hands of whatever, such that your win or loss is in the hundreds of dollars only, and then go back to the cage and get one check for the entire withdrawal - the $9000. plus or minus the few hundred.
If you can do that, I'll give you $25,000.
If you cannot, you will give me $25,000.
At least you should know what you need to do or not do to even get the cage to accept your money. But you won't get a check for other than the few hundred you might win, no matter what.
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
I'll leave this Challenge offer open until tomorrow. If you accept it we can figure out how to police it, but we really need little policing because you cannot get it done.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
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and it is open for the rest of today!
Quote: WizardAs to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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What is annoying to me about Wolf is when he comes in with useless statements like "I haven't any Idea why or how he is getting those checks. It doesn't prove someone is winning." If he had any idea how any of this works, he would know why I am getting these checks. That he doesn't know what a casino cage check MEANS is probably because he doesn't know anything about how this works. Which brings me back to the two possibilities I posted above as to why he doesn't know anything about this.
When I don't know something about something, I'll just say so. Not this guy, he comes in with some imprecise or in this case possibly completely in the dark knowledge about the facts behind all this, and throws out an opinion. How is that professional? Why should I believe anything someone like that has to say on any subject maybe he's just throwing out opinions without knowing what is going on in other matters too.
Quote: AxelWolfI haven't any Idea why or how he is getting those checks. It doesn't prove someone is winning. I am certain I too can get a check from a casino, there are multiple different ways.Quote: WizardQuote: MDawgYes, everything that happened was exactly as posted however it seems that some got the mis-impression that I bet nothing but 100 or 5000 bets. When I wrote that "I jammed the bet whenever the count was high enough and my total recall of every card played and the sequence of the most recent cards out, told me to jam it up there." I meant that "I jammed the bet" up there well above 100, not to 5000 every time.
I did not have that impression. However, I should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?Quote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Rain Man was fictionalized but what enabled him to do what he did was not just ability to remember every card played, but ability to track every card the way he tracked all those toothpicks that fell on the ground. He was able to watch the cards as they were shuffled and know where each one was placed. "There's lots of them." He didn't just know that there were a lot of queens left in the deck but where they had landed and where they would be coming out. The ultimate in shuffle tracking.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.Quote:During the play there was a time I did bet 5000 that I expected at least a twenty but got a blackjack. Another time I got an 11 and the expected face/ten fell for 21, for a 10000 win. Another time I doubled with 5000 out there and got a stupid 5 but the expected tens landed later to bust the dealer who had a 6 up, with what turned out to be a 10 underneath.
I didn't want any yellows whenever the dealers tried to give me them I'd refuse them. Actually, I don't think there's even a day when I'm in high limit that I don't see at least one player stubbornly refusing to be paid in a certain color of chips, especially a certain high denomination one. They probably just figured I was some kind of superstitious player who wanted only color for color, but I wanted to see if I could get all the 500s and I did. The lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session actually which is probably why I was able to empty before a fill came in, and then I left.
If I told you which casino this was and what time it was, you'd probably understand better why there was no fill, too.
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I don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
My most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
As to the challenges, I hope to see someone accept the card memorization one. I'm happy to judge, assist, and/or bet against you, depending on the details, but I won't bet more than low four figures on it.
As to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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But MDawg says you can’t get a check from a casino that isn’t ‘verified winnings’. Axel, are you saying he is wrong and are willing to bet him real money on this?
I’ll be in Vegas October and would be willing to judge such a challenge.
I’ve thought about this. I once came to Vegas with around maybe $2k. I know there are those here who bet that on a single hand, but I don’t really feel comfortable carrying that much money. Anyway, that was the trip I found the weak dealer at Paris at Asia Poker, and a few other easy $ wins. But I didn’t win it all at once. Not even sure if I was always playing rated. So if I cashed in $2k worth of chips at the cage are you (MDawg) saying if I asked for a check they would say ‘no’ since my win at that casino couldn’t necessarily be ‘verified’.
I mean, I may have cashed in for $1k in chips, played, moved tables, cashed some chips back into cash, rebought in, etc…. If I said I was going home now the casino would not give me a check?
(I ended up taking the cash on my next journey leg and gave it to my college student son to put in his account in Missouri).
How much did you buy in for at the table. All cash?
How much did you win?
After you walked, if you went to the cage to cash all your chips you would be able to get a check only for what the pit verified as your win (rated play). The rest would be handed to you in cash.
Plus if you pulled that crap you say you pull with hiding a black chip every session and somehow got away with it, then you'd get a check for that much less, assuming you even fooled the pit boss in the first place into entering a lower number for your net win.
Why is this so hard to understand? Converting your cash to a casino cage check is illegal - it is money laundering. The casino could get fined or even shut down for that, and you could get in trouble too if it could be proven that you did it intentionally / knowingly.
SooPoo why even bother to play? Just go buy a couple K in chips, run to the cage and ask them to give you a check for all of it. 😅
One thing is clear and makes my point. If you don't know whether this would work or how it works it would be because you've never done it, which is exactly what I'm saying is probably the case with AWolf.
Before I even DISCUSS the terms of a bet, Mdawg would have to get Mike 25k in escrow. I have been through this before with Mdawg. I had money in escrow with Mike and Mdawg refused to do so(He could have taken it back for any reason), I want money on deposit before I even consider a challenge. I believe It's a waste of time to even discuss it unless the funds are in escrow.Quote: unJonQuote: AxelWolfI haven't any Idea why or how he is getting those checks. It doesn't prove someone is winning. I am certain I too can get a check from a casino, there are multiple different ways.Quote: WizardQuote: MDawgYes, everything that happened was exactly as posted however it seems that some got the mis-impression that I bet nothing but 100 or 5000 bets. When I wrote that "I jammed the bet whenever the count was high enough and my total recall of every card played and the sequence of the most recent cards out, told me to jam it up there." I meant that "I jammed the bet" up there well above 100, not to 5000 every time.
I did not have that impression. However, I should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?Quote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Rain Man was fictionalized but what enabled him to do what he did was not just ability to remember every card played, but ability to track every card the way he tracked all those toothpicks that fell on the ground. He was able to watch the cards as they were shuffled and know where each one was placed. "There's lots of them." He didn't just know that there were a lot of queens left in the deck but where they had landed and where they would be coming out. The ultimate in shuffle tracking.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.Quote:During the play there was a time I did bet 5000 that I expected at least a twenty but got a blackjack. Another time I got an 11 and the expected face/ten fell for 21, for a 10000 win. Another time I doubled with 5000 out there and got a stupid 5 but the expected tens landed later to bust the dealer who had a 6 up, with what turned out to be a 10 underneath.
I didn't want any yellows whenever the dealers tried to give me them I'd refuse them. Actually, I don't think there's even a day when I'm in high limit that I don't see at least one player stubbornly refusing to be paid in a certain color of chips, especially a certain high denomination one. They probably just figured I was some kind of superstitious player who wanted only color for color, but I wanted to see if I could get all the 500s and I did. The lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session actually which is probably why I was able to empty before a fill came in, and then I left.
If I told you which casino this was and what time it was, you'd probably understand better why there was no fill, too.
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I don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
My most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
As to the challenges, I hope to see someone accept the card memorization one. I'm happy to judge, assist, and/or bet against you, depending on the details, but I won't bet more than low four figures on it.
As to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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Sounds like we have a potential challenge then around whether Axel can get a cage check without having verified winnings. Assuming people come to terms on how to judge that. What is taking coachbelly so long to show up here?
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Whatever the case, I haven't any clue what those checks are for, or under what circumstances he got them. We have nothing but a picture and his word for it. If that's all that's required I will win. If there's more that's required then he needs to present the same evidence.
IIRC MD brought up the check thing to add credibility to his forever-beating baccarat and BJ persona
I will say it again, just showing a check does not mean you are winning.
I'm done with the check discussion for now, it's just taking away from Mike's question.
Quote: WizardAs to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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UnJon (or anyone) is there anything in this Check Challenge that refers to my casino checks as part of the wager??
Quote: AxelWolfI haven't any clue what those checks are for, or under what circumstances he got them. We have nothing but a picture and his word for it. If that's all that's required I will win. If there's more that's required then he needs to present the same evidence.
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As far as reneging he offered to buy Wizard's watch unilaterally then later retracted it by saying, Only if it's a good deal. So we could go back and forth on this reneging talk all day, with his explaining why he had a right to withdraw on his watch offer, and my saying the same about whatever he's referring to. In that situation we ended up just like today where what he thought was the challenge or wager was entirely different from what I believe I had proposed.
Quote: AxelWolfI will say it again, just showing a check does not mean you are winning.
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For a credit only player like me, that's precisely what it means.
Why don't you just admit that you've never gotten a casino cage check for a table game win your entire life? If you had, especially anytime recently, you'd know what is involved.
That claim stands on its own. It is irrelevant if the checks MDawg has shown are real or forged as it regards YOUR CLAIM.
So Axel, either you CAN or CANNOT get a check from the casino WITHOUT verified gaming winnings. MDawg seems willing to bet you that you CANNOT.
So are YOU willing to make that bet? We can discuss stakes/escrow/ adjudication if you say yes.
I have NO experience in the matter, but I’d guess if Axel takes the bet he wins. But of course like most of these proposed bets, it is highly unlikely to actually happen.
The Cash for Check Wager
Wizard seemed to think it's a reasonable wager, and really would not be hard to police either. I just know he can't do it, I mean it's ILLEGAL, how is going to get around that and we're talking $9000. not just a few hundred bucks.
Let alone the $47K check I posted (which, actually I had posted two other verified win casino cage checks last night too, totaling almost $500,000. between the two of them, but I deleted the posts because I was worried that someone could use win checks of that amount to track me down - not too many people ever win that much in day or trip).
In sum: I'd be in jail for money laundering if I had managed to get for anything other than verified winnings the millions in checks I have obtained from casinos.
Quote: WizardI should have also challenged the alleged 10-hour-session. That is not the kind of thing a skilled counter would do. Even you, I thought, preferred short hit and run sessions at the baccarat table. Was there some kind of unusual advantage you had at this particular table?
I actually ate dinner during the session and went back to play so the total play was more like 8.5 hours.
There was tons of back and forth for many hours, and as I posted,
meaning that I wasn’t getting anywhere for many hours, then more towards the end of the session it started happening. It didn't occur to me that I could empty any portion of the tray until late in the session, and in fact early in the session I was actually down.Quote: MDawgThe lion's share of the winning came towards the end of the session
Quote: WizardQuote:As far as "Rain Man kind of ability" I don't think it's such a big thing to be able to know every card that has been played. Nico the Baccarat King was supposed to be able to track every card played and know what remained in the deck over eight decks.
Based on this and other posts, maybe this talent is more of a 1 in 1,000 kind of thing than one in a million. Whatever the proportion of the population that has such a memory, I'm not a part of it. I don't buy combination locks, because I can never commit the combination to memory. So, I'll retract that point.
Thank you.
Quote: WizardI don't wish to belabor the color of the chips part of this. I do know some players are superstitious about their chip colors. My question is whether the dealer was paying wins of over $1,000 in purples when he/she had plenty of yellows available and you didn't request either way how to get paid.
All the dealers realized immediately that I didn’t have any yellow chips in front of me and just paid me color for color. They’re good at that don’t have to be told. Towards the end when the rack was running low I actually had already declared that I was going to empty all the 500s so there was no way the dealer would have handed me other than 500s at that point.
The tray was filled once, but only after my initial marker pull because I had asked for - you guessed it - all 500s and 100s. During most of the play that week the 500s had been about right for what I wanted to do as far as my spread and just grabbing what I felt was right for the indicated bet.
Quote: WizardMy most important point of this post is to ask whether you were shuffle tracking? This is where the skill of memorizing card order, as you claim you did, can help. Of course, a lazy shuffle is also required, which you didn't address.
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It’s easy to get at least one hand shuffle at a private table – the final shuffle before the cards are dealt – even if playing at a casino where public tables are all machine shuffled. At this casino I was able to get an all hand shuffle, no machine involved at all.
As far as the keeping track of cards, I made this post yesterday:
Quote: MDawgGood question. But I suspect you already know the answer.
I've alluded to this directly or indirectly before. A couple people made fun of it when I referred to the "flow of the cards" what I mean obviously was what cards have come out. Also, I've referred many times to playing one on one or on first base and jamming the bet up when a sequence comes up where no tens/faces/aces have come up for a good long while and you'd expect the first card out the deck to be one of those.
But in sum, clearly, there would be times when knowing every card that has played would not mean a lot, and times when it would mean everything - just depends on what mixture and ratio of cards have come out, both over all, and recently. By recently mostly I mean from the most recent one going backwards.
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in response to whether keeping track of the cards would even matter.
As far as shuffle tracking you and I discussed that privately.
So yes, I got this Masterpiece about six months ago.
I actually ended up losing the very next session after this one and it took me two more sessions to get back to where I was, but before I could even win on that third session my wife noticed the new watch and I had to get her something platinum too, from Tiffany, not a watch. She has pretty much lost interest in watches.
Nothing turns a Vegas win into something tangible like...spending the win on something tangible.
Quote: SOOPOOI’ve thought about this. I once came to Vegas with around maybe $2k. I know there are those here who bet that on a single hand, but I don’t really feel comfortable carrying that much money. Anyway, that was the trip I found the weak dealer at Paris at Asia Poker, and a few other easy $ wins. But I didn’t win it all at once. Not even sure if I was always playing rated. So if I cashed in $2k worth of chips at the cage are you (MDawg) saying if I asked for a check they would say ‘no’ since my win at that casino couldn’t necessarily be ‘verified’.
I mean, I may have cashed in for $1k in chips, played, moved tables, cashed some chips back into cash, rebought in, etc…. If I said I was going home now the casino would not give me a check?
(I ended up taking the cash on my next journey leg and gave it to my college student son to put in his account in Missouri).
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I can't speak for Mdawg, but I think they would have said "no." Not so much because of money laundering rules, for such a small amount, but casinos simply don't like to be used as banks.
Quote: MDawgAs far as shuffle tracking you and I discussed that privately.
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I know. I asked to get an on-the-record answer.
Yes I am certain I can get a check from a casino without verified winnings. That's not going to be the bet, however.Quote: SOOPOOAxel…. Now YOU are trying to move the goalposts. YOU said you could get a check from the casino without verified winnings. I believed you used the word ‘certain’.
Quote: WizardQuote: MDawgAs far as shuffle tracking you and I discussed that privately.
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I know. I asked to get an on-the-record answer.
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It's my understanding that the high limits get new decks opened each shuffle. In other words every hand is from preshuffled cards.
Is that not correct?
New implies a brand new deck.
What do you mean by preshuffled? Some high limit salons use shuffling machines into which they stick pre shuffled cards, some just take the pre shuffled cards right out of the box and deal (after a player cut), some do not use machines at all but give the pre shuffled cards one hand shuffle, and some casinos do not use pre shuffled cards or machines at all and hand shuffle everything. I play only in high limit but I don't think that in Vegas casinos the policy is different as to handling the cards inside or outside the salon. (I have played a little outside high limit and the card policy was the same.)
As far as private tables, the player is able to negotiate whatever. Some special limit customers claim to be suspicious of the machines and demand at least one hand shuffle before they will play, and others are able to get entirely hand shuffled decks with no machines involved at all.
As far as the pre shuffling, at some casinos that is done by some company off site, and at others it is done by dealers sitting around in a room doing nothing but shuffling cards. The cards that come in the sealed paper boxes are done off site by machines, the cards that come in the plexiglass boxes with a zip tie are done on site by dealers.
By the way, the reason some of the casinos give the preshuffled cards one more shuffle is supposedly because one time at one of the majors on the Strip the cards came out of the box unshuffled, and straight into the Baccarat shoe after a cut. The players figured out what was happening and started to empty the tray until the pit figured out what was happened. After that, that casino started giving even the preshuffled cards one hand shuffle.
But there is one major on the Strip that doesn't care and opens those paper boxes of cards and hands them straight to the player for cut and deal.
Quote: AxelWolfYes I am certain I can get a check from a casino without verified winnings. That's not going to be the bet, however.Quote: SOOPOOAxel…. Now YOU are trying to move the goalposts. YOU said you could get a check from the casino without verified winnings. I believed you used the word ‘certain’.
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If he's never gotten a cage casino check for a table game win in his entire life, that would make his certainty, meaningless.
In any case, this is the Cash for Check Challenge and he still has tonight to accept it.
So far, it doesn't seem that he understands the Challenge, or how or why cages won't issue checks other than for winnings or return of non-cash funds. Possibly, he's still in some world of thirty years ago where casinos weren't as concerned about money laundering.
I'm not accepting any bet or talking about terms or continuing discussion until Mike has 25k of yours on deposit. I'll do the same. He keeps the money for 10 days while terms are Negotiated. It can be a no-fault deposit meaning that if no agreement can be made after 10 days, you and I get our money back without penalty. I only maintain that I can get a check from a casino(s) without actually being up money. Ill keep copying and pasting the same response until that's been accomplished. I ask the Mods to separate any casino check talk to a different thread.Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfYes I am certain I can get a check from a casino without verified winnings. That's not going to be the bet, however.Quote: SOOPOOAxel…. Now YOU are trying to move the goalposts. YOU said you could get a check from the casino without verified winnings. I believed you used the word ‘certain’.
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If he's never gotten a cage casino check for a table game win in his entire life, that would make his certainty, meaningless.
In any case, this is the Cash for Check Challenge and he still has tonight to accept it.
So far, it doesn't seem that he understands the Challenge, or how or why cages won't issue checks other than for winnings or return of non-cash funds. Possibly, he's still in some world of thirty years ago where casinos weren't as concerned about money laundering.
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Have you ever in your life gotten a cage check for a table game win?
Quote: MDawgQuote: SOOPOOAxel…. Now YOU are trying to move the goalposts. YOU said you could get a check from the casino without verified winnings. I believed you used the word ‘certain’.
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If he's never gotten a cage casino check for a table game win in his entire life, that would make his certainty, meaningless.
In any case, this is the Cash for Check Challenge and he still has tonight to accept it.
So far, it doesn't seem that he understands the Challenge, or how or why cages won't issue checks other than for winnings or return of non-cash funds. Possibly, he's still in some world of thirty years ago where casinos weren't as concerned about money laundering.
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Quote: AxelWolfI only maintain that I can get a check from a casino(s) without actually being up money.
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SooPoo, what do you think of AxelWolf's playing the role of the out-of-control gaijin by repeating the same thing over and over, some vague proposition about getting a check with no defined parameters including even about having to buy in for cash, thinking I'm an idiot who will deposit money against some vague run on sentence of a wager, versus my clearly defined Cash for Check Challenge?
You know he read my Challenge and realized he couldn't do it, which is why he's coming with this meaningless-ness now.
HOW ABOUT A BET OVER WHETHER HE HAS EVER IN HIS LIFE EVEN OBTAINED A CAGE CHECK FOR A TABLE GAME WIN? 😆
Quote: MDawgI believe the answer is No, but to be certain, what exactly do you mean?
New implies a brand new deck.
What do you mean by preshuffled? Some high limit salons use shuffling machines into which they stick pre shuffled cards, some just take the pre shuffled cards right out of the box and deal (after a player cut), some do not use machines at all but give the pre shuffled cards one hand shuffle, and some casinos do not use pre shuffled cards or machines at all and hand shuffle everything. I play only in high limit but I don't think that in Vegas casinos the policy is different as to handling the cards inside or outside the salon. (I have played a little outside high limit and the card policy was the same.)
As far as private tables, the player is able to negotiate whatever. Some special limit customers claim to be suspicious of the machines and demand at least one hand shuffle before they will play, and others are able to get entirely hand shuffled decks with no machines involved at all.
As far as the pre shuffling, at some casinos that is done by some company off site, and at others it is done by dealers sitting around in a room doing nothing but shuffling cards. The cards that come in the sealed paper boxes are done off site by machines, the cards that come in the plexiglass boxes with a zip tie are done on site by dealers.
By the way, the reason some of the casinos give the preshuffled cards one more shuffle is supposedly because one time at one of the majors on the Strip the cards came out of the box unshuffled, and straight into the Baccarat shoe after a cut. The players figured out what was happening and started to empty the tray until the pit figured out what was happened. After that, that casino started giving even the preshuffled cards one hand shuffle.
But there is one major on the Strip that doesn't care and opens those paper boxes of cards and hands them straight to the player for cut and deal.
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Okay so it's just different scenarios per individual location.
BTW the Baccarat incident you mentioned was at the Golden Nugget in Atlantic city.
Quote: MDawgThe fact that you say that, shows me how little you know about how casinos work.
How about if you go deposit $9000. cash at the cage at Wynn, go play a few hands of whatever, such that your win or loss is in the hundreds of dollars only, and then go back to the cage and get one check for the entire withdrawal - the $9000. plus or minus the few hundred.
If you can do that, I'll give you $25,000.
If you cannot, you will give me $25,000.
At least you should know what you need to do or not do to even get the cage to accept your money. But you won't get a check for other than the few hundred you might win, no matter what.
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
I'll leave this Challenge offer open until tomorrow. If you accept it we can figure out how to police it, but we really need little policing because you cannot get it done.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
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Now I see YOU moved the goalposts MDawg! YOU said the ONLY way to get a check from a casino is through verified winnings. And thus your checks YOU believe are proof of your winnings. Axel is saying that he can get a check without verified winnings. He has NOT said HOW he would do so. You are trying to put a method to do so into the challenge!!! He will likely do it a different way.
Remember, this started with YOU saying the ONLY way to get a casino check was through verified winnings. Why not let Axel prove you wrong the way HE wants to? Or are you afraid he will be able produce that check?
Quote: darkozBTW the Baccarat incident you mentioned was at the Golden Nugget in Atlantic city.
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Perhaps it happened there too. I play in Vegas only and referred to an incident in Vegas.
Quote: MDawgQuote: darkozBTW the Baccarat incident you mentioned was at the Golden Nugget in Atlantic city.
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Perhaps it happened there too. I play in Vegas only and referred to an incident in Vegas.
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I'm intrigued and would like to know more.
I've heard a bit about the GNAC incident, but I don't know about a similar strip incident.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: MDawgThe fact that you say that, shows me how little you know about how casinos work.
How about if you go deposit $9000. cash at the cage at Wynn, go play a few hands of whatever, such that your win or loss is in the hundreds of dollars only, and then go back to the cage and get one check for the entire withdrawal - the $9000. plus or minus the few hundred.
If you can do that, I'll give you $25,000.
If you cannot, you will give me $25,000.
At least you should know what you need to do or not do to even get the cage to accept your money. But you won't get a check for other than the few hundred you might win, no matter what.
A check will never be issued for other than verified winnings, or for return of non-cash deposit. Until you understand that, waste of time to debate with you.
I'll leave this Challenge offer open until tomorrow. If you accept it we can figure out how to police it, but we really need little policing because you cannot get it done.
And for a credit only player like me, any check I get is for winnings only. Simple.
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Now I see YOU moved the goalposts MDawg! YOU said the ONLY way to get a check from a casino is through verified winnings. And thus your checks YOU believe are proof of your winnings. Axel is saying that he can get a check without verified winnings. He has NOT said HOW he would do so. You are trying to put a method to do so into the challenge!!! He will likely do it a different way.
Remember, this started with YOU saying the ONLY way to get a casino check was through verified winnings. Why not let Axel prove you wrong the way HE wants to? Or are you afraid he will be able produce that check?
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What are you talking about, I posted one Challenge only, two days ago, the same one that Wizard said he would back.
Quote: WizardAs to the one about the $9,000 and getting a check, I think Mdawg is right on that one. There are strict regulations against laundering cash for checks and the Vegas casinos I find are strict about following them, to varying degrees. I would like to bet on Mdawg's side of that challenge.
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Then AWolf started posting about "I can get a check without winning" without specifying anything about what kind of check or what he would do to get it. He could start working as a short order cook to get a casino check. He could try to sell the kitchen some Shun knives
(got a million of 'em, we love them) and get a check that way.
He could deposit a cashier's check at the cage and then ask to withdraw it.
I am talking about how a person cannot buy in for cash (or be a credit player, like me), play at a table game and get a casino cage check without winning. End of story. And that story is relevant to me. I'm interested in demonstrating that money laundering is not allowed by Vegas casinos, and that when I get checks, it means that I won. The fact that AWolf doesn't seem to know a thing about how it works vis a vis casino play and Casino Compliance is what is at play here. Ya' follow?
Maybe someone like DRich could chime in again here, he seems to have worked behind the scenes at the casinos. He already commented on this very sort of thing before. People who don't know what they are talking about think that you could just buy chips at the table for cash and then run to the cage and convert them to a check. Not happening.
Let's just leave it at:
Quote: MDawgQuote: AxelWolfI will say it again, just showing a check does not mean you are winning.
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For a credit only player like me, that's precisely what it means.
Why don't you just admit that you've never gotten a casino cage check for a table game win your entire life? If you had, especially anytime recently, you'd know what is involved.
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Quote: DieterQuote: MDawgQuote: darkozBTW the Baccarat incident you mentioned was at the Golden Nugget in Atlantic city.
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Perhaps it happened there too. I play in Vegas only and referred to an incident in Vegas.
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I'm intrigued and would like to know more.
I've heard a bit about the GNAC incident, but I don't know about a similar strip incident.
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Neither of you are in Vegas, which would explain why you have not heard of this, but I found out about it just because I play a lot in Vegas. I first heard about it, what was it, four years ago. I heard it again, and then again, and then eventually one day I was talking to the crew that was there when it happened.
Incidentally in Vegas the players got to keep whatever they won. The whole incident probably the casino just wanted it to be forgotten.
Some of these guys who claim to play a lot in Vegas are probably just staying at home a lot and not in the casinos much because if they were, they'd have heard about something like this too. And a lot of other things.
Not everything makes the papers, for obvious reasons. I actually had not heard of the Atlantic City incident. I get a lot of my casino news by living it not reading about it.
