The Adventures of MDawg

Back then I applied via FAX, nowadays all online.

DRich, do they even accept in person applications any longer? I don't know. I'd always want to know if I had my line set before I arrived on property so I would always apply before arrival.

Let me take a minute just to say what a wealth of information you are.

Sincerely lots of us thank you for your time and truly unselfish contributions you make.

A perfect role model in every way.

Quote: MDawg

Back then I applied via FAX, nowadays all online.

DRich, do they even accept in person applications any longer? I don't know. I'd always want to know if I had my line set before I arrived on property so I would always apply before arrival.

I believe most still do in person credit lines. It is probably the same application that you would fill out online. The last one I got was about two years ago at Cosmo and the credit manager Wayne handled it.

Quote: MDawg

3 - Sufficient average balances in your bank accounts - and they look back it appears as far back as nine months - to justify whatever credit line you are requesting.

Let me get this straight MDawg.... Are you saying that Experian can access your current and historical bank balance? Why would you give Experian permission to do that? If you don't, I suppose that would stymie your credit line application, but I sure as hell wouldn't
I understand that The IRS can access such details, but I'm shocked that you would give a private enterprise permission to do so.

Quote: OnceDear

Let me get this straight MDawg.... Are you saying that Experian can access your current and historical bank balance? Why would you give Experian permission to do that? If you don't, I suppose that would stymie your credit line application, but I sure as hell wouldn't
I understand that The IRS can access such details, but I'm shocked that you would give a private enterprise permission to do so.

Yes, this was interesting, as 30 years ago, if a casino said "we're checking with your bank," I always interpreted it as they were calling the bank directly to verify the information you gave them. I would not have agreed to a third party interlocutor, but I never read the medium print, much less the fine print, so I really don't know. The only line of credit I maintained was at the old Imperial Palace, as that was where I'd watch Sunday football and I didn't want to have to cash Saturday tickets.

I really doubt that the credit agencies have access to bank accounts. In the old days you would give the casino your bank account numbers and they would call the bank to get your average balance.

Quote: OnceDear

Are you saying that Experian can access your current and historical bank balance?

Quote: MDawg

Again, to get casino credit you must have:
1 - Good personal credit
2 - Good casino credit (past history of casino marker payments)
3 - Sufficient average balances in your bank accounts - and they look back it appears as far back as nine months - to justify whatever credit line you are requesting.

Three separate things.

1 - Personal credit - for most casinos, which as mentioned work through NCC Reports, this is pulled through Experian. All Experian has access to is your personal consumer credit (payment history on credit cards, credit lines, auto & real estate loans, record of any judgments, liens, bankruptcies, etc.).
Experian has no access to your bank accounts whatsoever, other than, I suppose if you were a deadbeat and in ChexSystems and stiffed a bank, the record of this judgement for a bad check might appear in your consumer credit profile.

2 - Casino Credit. NCC Reports actually DOES have access to your bank accounts - you give them permission to a check on your bank accounts when you make the application for casino credit. Within your NCC Report you will find the type of bank account (personal, business, etc.) and a numerical rating for its average balance (Low 5, High 5, Low 6, Mid 6, High 6, etc.) which is where I figured out that the casinos look back nine months.
The most recent application system via NCC asks you login to your bank accounts via your bank account username login ID and PW, which is further verified via a text that comes from your bank to verify your login, and when you do that, this gives NCC a full rating on your bank account. However, you're not logging in via NCC, it's more like you are logging in via a portal that appears within the NCC application, where that portal is actually run by your bank itself.
If you have a PayPal or stock trading account and have ever Confirmed it by linking it to a bank account, you will remember that there are two ways to do this usually...one is by having them send two tiny little deposits to your bank account and having you Confirm the amounts later, to prove that you have access to the account meaning that it is yours, OR by logging in via a portal on the PayPal, eTrade, TDAmeritrade, etc. with your bank account username and PW to verify instantly. If you are familiar with this instant verification process you understand what I describe via the NCC portal.

3 - Sufficient average balances in your bank accounts. As noted, whether you Confirm this directly by logging into your bank accounts via the bank's portal as it appears within the NCC application, or simply present your bank account routing number and account number, NCC is able to do a bank check and get a rating on your bank accounts and turns over all this information to the casino.

By the way, whether you self-verify directly by login or just by submitting your bank account(s) and routing number(s), all NCC obtains are your numerical ratings for average bank balances, whether the accounts are business or personal, and how long the accounts have been open - basic numeric stuff. They do not (cannot) view any of your transactions. This sort of "bank check" may be done at any time by a number of casino staff - not just casino credit but also shift managers, pit bosses even hosts. Walk up to a pit and ask for a draw on your line and if the pit boss so chooses, he may look up your bank balance(s) or run your casino credit right then and there to determine how much you have outstanding owed at other casinos before handing you any chips against your line.

I have never seen exactly what the report that comes from NCC that is presented to the casino looks like, but I assume it includes your application itself, your Experian consumer credit profile, your NCC casino credit profile, and your bank account(s) rating(s). I have seen my NCC report as disclosed to me by NCC more than once (you have a right to a free copy once each year) and it does include my casino credit and my various bank account ratings.

I may not be Ace Rothstein (nor would particularly want to be), but whatever I get involved with, I eat, sleep and breath until I understand it fully.

Quote: MDawg

I may not be Ace Rothstein (nor would particularly want to be), but whatever I get involved with, I eat, sleep and breath until I understand it fully.

^ That’s me ^

I never understood the point of gambling on credit.

Then again, I don’t use credit for anything. Not even to buy a house

Quote: MDawg

...or simply present your bank account routing number and account number, NCC is able to do a bank check and get a rating on your bank accounts and turns over all this information to the casino.

Get outta here!
Name, sort code and account number does not constitute permission for any entity to enquire your historic bank balance. If it were, you would be giving your permission away with every cheque you write.

Quote:

I have seen my NCC report as disclosed to me by NCC more than once (you have a right to a free copy once each year) and it does include my casino credit and my various bank account ratings.

Quote: NCC Bank Operative to Mybank

Hello, I have Mr OnceDear here. He says it's ok for you to tell me his bank balance for the last nine months. I have his account number

Quote: Mybank

Yeah sure. That sounds legit. ROFLMAO

Quote: Ace2

I never understood the point of gambling on credit.

If I had a 5-figure bankroll with which to play, I would consider a line of credit, just so I wasn't carrying around a big wad of cash. I realize this could also be accomplished via wiring front money, but I think I would rather do credit.

Quote:

Then again, I don’t use credit for anything. Not even to buy a house

Props for the discipline to do this. I won't buy a car on credit, but I have no problems with obtaining a mortgage to buy a house. Plus, I put just about all of my daily expenses on my cc. Especially now with Covid and the coin shortage, I don't do cash anymore. I also don't make purchases on my debit card. Call me old school, but if a problem should arise, I'd rather tell the cc company that I won't pay a charge than have to fight with a bank to get my money back.

I assume things like renting a car, staying in a hotel, buying airline tickets, etc. can all be done via debit card now, but wasn't it difficult to do these things 15-20 years ago without a credit card?

I see credit as a tool, like a chainsaw. Used for the right reasons and with the right precautions, it is particularly useful and valuable. Or you can cut your foot off with it! So, I can get if you don't want to use it. As for me, I like power tools!

OnceDear have you ever applied for a credit card issued by a bank where you have bank accounts? Or a credit line increase on a credit card issued by a bank where you have bank accounts? When you do either whether you are aware or not you give the bank permission to check the balances on your accounts - referred to as "deposit accounts" in the fine print. Banks turn down credit line increase requests all the time for failure to maintain sufficient funds on deposit.

When you apply for casino credit OF COURSE you're giving NCC or whatever entity is packaging the application for the casino the right to look at your bank balances.

You don't ever read what you sign? Here's one for Cosmopolitan, and the verbiage is virtually identical for all casino credit applications (and this is just paragraph 1 the disclosures go on for a full page of fine print):

I, the undersigned, hereby give Nevada Property 1 LLC dba The Cosmopolitan of Las Vegas and its affiliates ("CLV") authorization to obtain and verify my financial information (including but not limited to account balance information) from any source, obtain my financial and employment history, and exchange information with others about my financial and account experience with CLV. I agree not to hold CLV responsible or liable for the information released or for its use of any such information. I agree that CLV may retain and use the information on this application and any information it receives based on my authorization whether or not I am granted marker signing privileges.

Quote: MDawg

I applied last week for another line at a casino in Vegas, for an upcoming trip (basically because one of the major casinos in Vegas I play at remains closed, so I explored another option)

This was approved. Once you get one line and handle it responsible, as long as you remain both personal and casino credit worthy, and maintain the balances in your bank accounts, casinos are happy to extend more.

In my case, I have more than enough in my bank accounts at all times to cover a full blowout of all of my lines, but as I mentioned before, I don't think it's right the way casinos will issue a new line just based on having enough to cover just that one line in the bank.

Ace2 you asked why bother with casino credit - well, for one thing, when you get into mid to high five figure credit lines, or for some people (not me) - even seven figure lines - wielding that much cash, gets, well, unwieldy! The casinos extend you interest free loans, so - why not?

Quote: MDawg

The casinos extend you interest free loans, so - why not?

I think anyone that passes on interest free loans is foolish. I almost always have a 0% credit card with a balance on it. I recently put $15,000 in new flooring in my house and put it all on a 0% credit card. In my case it was 18 months of 0% so I am maximizing it.

Quote: DRich

I think anyone that passes on interest free loans is foolish. I almost always have a 0% credit card with a balance on it. I recently put $15,000 in new flooring in my house and put it all on a 0% credit card. In my case it was 18 months of 0% so I am maximizing it.

What’s the benefit of zero interest financing these days? It’s not like you can earn any interest on the cash you hold during that time

It’s a better deal to put that on you regular credit card. At least you get 15,000 miles which is better than nothing

Incidentally, I’ve read that there is no such thing as zero interest car financing. Makes sense since everyone has a cost of capital. If a car can be bought for $30,000 cash then the “zero interest” finance price will be more like $35,000

Quote: Ace2

What’s the benefit of zero interest financing these days? It’s not like you can earn any interest on the cash you hold during that time

You can still make money by investing the money or even putting it in a savings account. Right now companies have savings accounts around 2% if you shop around. I think my main bank only pays 0.1%

I stay away from credit cards.

I don't like owing anyone.

I keep a prepaid for hotel and online purchases

Credit cards offer free protections that you don't get paying cash or debit or prepaid. Additional insurances, warranties, fraud protections, etc. You can literally pay the credit card bill the same day you make the purchase so you "owe" someone for a matter of minutes or hours.

Moved to investment thread.

DRich and sabre are both right - and the buyer protection you get from a credit card is superior to that of a debit card. While a debit card might SAY "Visa" or "MC" on it, you won't have as easy a time disputing a charge or reporting it as unauthorized if ever necessary with a debit versus credit card.

My preferred credit cards give me a straight 2 - 5% cash back, depending on the category. No card will consistently give you more than 2% cash back for ALL categories, but some will give you up to 5% for certain categories or at certain times.

Quote: MDawg

DRich and sabre are both right - and the buyer protection you get from a credit card is superior to that of a debit card. While a debit card might SAY "Visa" or "MC" on it, you won't have as easy a time disputing a charge or reporting it as unauthorized if ever necessary with a debit versus credit card.

My preferred credit cards give me a straight 2 - 5% cash back, depending on the category. No card will consistently give you more than 2% cash back for ALL categories, but some will give you up to 5% for certain categories or at certain times.

I trust credit card companies like anti-vaxxers trust vaccines.

Even my debit card I keep loaded with very small amounts.

And I have had to dispute charges 2x on my debit with no problems. The money was credited back to me

Have you ever stopped to think - noticed - that the way your mind works is
"If it worked like this for me, this must be the way it is."

Quote: darkoz

I trust credit card companies like anti-vaxxers trust vaccines.

What don't you trust about them?

Quote: coachbelly

What don't you trust about them?

Credit cards give you umbrellas when it's sunny outside.

And throw you in the river when it's pouring.

Wish I could take credit for that homily but I read it years ago somewhere.

Quote: darkoz

Credit cards give you umbrellas when it's sunny outside.

And throw you in the river when it's pouring.

Anything tangible that you don't trust?...an example of the umbrella homily?

Quote: coachbelly

Anything tangible that you don't trust?...an example of the umbrella homily?

Low interest rates because you are doing well.

Then lose your job, miss a few payment's and they kick you in the popcorns.

I'm doing quite well without them. But who knows when my rainy day comes.

Just lost four months due to a worldwide shutdown. It was quite satisfying knowing I owed no interest on any loans

Quote: darkoz

It was quite satisfying knowing I owed no interest on any loans

You can charge virtually all household and living expenses to credit cards, and never pay interest.

You don't need to carry a balance on credit cards month-to-month, there's no necessary exposure to the popcorn circumstances you wrote about.

Quote: coachbelly

You can charge virtually all household and living expenses to credit cards, and never pay interest.

You don't need to carry a balance on credit cards month-to-month, there's no necessary exposure to the popcorn circumstances you wrote about.

Technically I achieve that without credit cards lol

Quote: darkoz

Technically I achieve that without credit cards lol

Yeah, but you're missing out on all the comps, freeplay and bounceback.

That still doesn't explain your trust issue.

You don't trust credit cards because they enforce the terms of an agreement that the cardholder accepted?

Quote: coachbelly

Yeah, but you're missing out on all the comps, freeplay and bounceback.

That still doesn't explain your trust issue.

You don't trust credit cards because they enforce the terms of an agreement that the cardholder accepted?

Well I am not a cardholder so I didn't accept anything.

My gas and electric is like $300 a month. What Am I missing out on like $9 cash back

Whoop de doo

I suspect the real reason most of America was in dire financial straits when the pandemic hit is because most of America was over extended on their credit.

Nobody wants to pay now. They all want to pay later

As for using credit cards as an AP play there are plenty of AP plays I don't do. Credit cards are one of them.

Interestingly those people (bossy) saying I don't do this play and asking why happen to be the same people who can't do the plays I do

If people want to do the CC play fine. I got quite lucrative plays that no one else does as well

Quote: darkoz

I got quite lucrative plays that no one else does as well

Still doesn't explain why you don't trust credit cards.

Maybe you mean that you don't trust the cardholder to comply with the revolving credit agreement.

You must have living expenses that push your monthly nut beyond $300...right?

There's more to life than gas & electric.

Quote: coachbelly

Still doesn't explain why you don't trust credit cards.

Maybe you mean that you don't trust the cardholder to comply with the revolving credit agreement.

You must have living expenses that push your monthly nut beyond $300...right?

There's more to life than gas & electric.

Yeah I guess I'm just not into that agreement thing.

I also have a prepaid phone because I don't want any contractual agreement.

I don't have cable (watch everything on Blu-ray or YouTube) so no contract there.

No Wi-Fi (just do everything from my prepaid phone)

I have three laptops and they are all kept offline lol. Drives my grandkids crazy

Quote: darkoz

Yeah I guess I'm just not into that agreement thing.

No...not you

You do all your forum stuff from your phone? All emails, internet, etc is phone-only?

How sophisticated are the pre-paid phones these days? How big is the screen?

It's giving me a squint-headache just thinking about it.

Quote: darkoz

I'm doing quite well without them. But who knows when my rainy day comes.

Just lost four months due to a worldwide shutdown. It was quite satisfying knowing I owed no interest on any loans

Do you understand that it doesn't cost any interest if you pay them off each month? Credit cards offer so many benefits if you read up on them.

DarkOz,

Here is my credit card analogy. You cite to all the people with too much credit card debt, that is at a high interest rate and that they have trouble paying back (especially in the rain).

Those are the ploppies in the casino. Losing to the -EV game.

Then there are those that get free money and other perks like insurance from a credit card. Those are the APs taking money from the casino regularly.

You could crazy AP a credit card and maybe that juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

But there’s an easy AP. Get a good no annual fee card that pays 2%. Pay it off every month. Use it instead of cash and get 2% off almost everything in this world that you purchase.

The unspoken elephant in the room is the fact that buying something with cash often eliminates sales taxes and many small business owners will provide cash discounts. On a $2,000 purchase, would you prefer to save $180 in sales tax or get 2,000 "miles"?
When I was getting quotes on my bathroom project, contractors often let me know there was a price and then there was a cash price.
My largest supplier accepts credit cards but also does in house billing and offers a 3.5% discount if paid by cash or check within 30 days.

You seem to be following DarkOz's thinking and example of "if it worked out this way for me once, this must be the way it is." How many times are you going to repeat that same contractor's story? Most contractors don't even accept credit cards so the difference between presenting a check or cash is nothing to the homeowner, but an obvious advantage to the contractor who may just pocket the cash and not declare it.

But when you get into real remodeling jobs, not just little dinky projects, paying with a credit card (or cash) isn't an option.

My family has done million + dollar upgrades to their homes at times - they're going to pay with a credit card? or cash? Even a small remodeling job is often going to run into at least fifty or a hundred grand, so again, a credit card is usually not going to be an option - nor is cash.

Paying a contractor has not much relevance to what we are discussing here.

If you want to discuss this sort of thing - talk about say, the world of luxury goods and watch resales. When I buy, say, a fifty or hundred or even quarter million dollar watch (which that is about what my tourbillons cost each), if I bank wire the money I get at least 5% off and may also exploit a loophole that avoids sales tax even from a sales tax destination-based state, which saves me another 9% or so. So yes, there are situations where paying with a cash or cash equivalent might be beneficial, but at least discuss vendors who always accept credit cards - contractors generally do not, and even if they do, for real jobs a credit card payment is not feasible. A contractor that is big enough to take credit cards is not going to play games with avoiding tax via a cash payment anyway.

Quote: MDawg

You seem to be following DarkOz's thinking and example of "if it worked out this way for me once, this must be the way it is." How many times are you going to repeat that same contractor's story? Most contractors don't even accept credit cards so the difference between presenting a check or cash is nothing to the homeowner, but an obvious advantage to the contractor who may just pocket the cash and not declare it.

But when you get into real remodeling jobs, not just little dinky projects, paying with a credit card (or cash) isn't an option.

My family has done million + dollar upgrades to their homes at times - they're going to pay with a credit card? or cash? Even a small remodeling job is often going to run into at least fifty or a hundred grand, so again, a credit card is usually not going to be an option - nor is cash.

Paying a contractor has not much relevance to what we are discussing here.

If you want to discuss this sort of thing - talk about say, the world of luxury goods and watch resales. When I buy, say, a fifty or hundred or even quarter million dollar watch (which that is about what my tourbillons cost each), if I bank wire the money I get at least 5% off and may also exploit a loophole that avoids sales tax even from a sales tax destination-based state, which saves me another 9% or so. So yes, there are situations where paying with a cash or cash equivalent might be beneficial, but at least discuss vendors who always accept credit cards - contractors generally do not, and even if they do, for real jobs a credit card payment is not feasible. A contractor that is big enough to take credit cards is not going to play games with avoiding tax via a cash payment anyway.

Perhaps it's simply this.

I am frugal and would not bother with large ticket items for the most part.

Quarter million dollars for a watch? Does it tell time?

I can afford first class on planes. When I fly I go coach. To me the point of flying is to get to a destination. How I get there (luxury or not) is immaterial.

I have a $90 cell phone. It makes phones calls and goes on the internet. That's what a phone is for.

My friends and family have iPhones. They brag they spent $400 - $800 on them. They also make phone calls and go on the internet.

My girlfriend's always want to use Uber or Lyft. I force them to take the subway for $2 75. They both get them to the same destination (I will cave if it's bad weather or they are doing my laundry or shopping)

I'm a cheapskate unless it's something I don't care about the cost. When I spent $30,000 on a one week DISNEYLAND vacation a year ago my family nearly dropped dead in shock lol.

If I get to that large living MDawg claims then I probably will see the value of 2-5% savings per purchase

Speaking specifically to timepieces...I don't buy them retail. There is a market where brand new unworn watches are sold at below retail, such that if you buy them you'll always get back at least what you paid. I'd get into exactly how these watches come to bear in the market, but that's for another day.

Also sometimes I will buy used watches that are in perfect condition. Ironically (ironically in that this is a gambling forum), there was a local guy I knew who one by one sold me all of his top watches, no Rolexes but a lot of other very valuable and nice watches, and headed straight to the local Indian casinos every time I handed him the cash. He ended up with no cash, and I ended up with all his best watches.

As far as vintage timepieces, such as my pre-Automatic (wind up) Rolex Cosmographs, all of these are worth far more than what I paid for them, and their value increases steadily. Collecting these vintage Rolexes is actually quite commonplace.

So, I consider them all to be investments. Now, who is going to benefit from that investment? Not me, I'll be dead and gone and my heirs will be selling my watches (and a lot of other art) off I am sure. I don't sell collectibles, I just keep buying.

Some people say that by the time they die they hope that everything they own will fit in a backpack. And others....

We all spend a lot on our hobbies.

I won't spend more than $20 on a watch.

However I have spent well over a $1000 for a ten cents comic book from the 1950's.

You are spending money on what you enjoy which is all that counts

Agreed.

And I am sure that those comic books of yours are worth a lot more now than what you paid for them. I understand that you lost some of them or they were damaged. I commiserate. I've lost some collectibles over the years too. Who hasn't?

Quote: MDawg

Agreed.

And I am sure that those comic books of yours are worth a lot more now than what you paid for them. I understand that you lost some of them or they were damaged. I commiserate. I've lost some collectibles over the years too. Who hasn't?

Yes in Hurricane Sandy.

I replaced most all of them now.

There was one comic book irreplaceable. It was the unpublished issue of a long running title. I had reached out to the author and he created a color home printed version of the last issue as the artwork and layouts, dialogue had all been completed before the company pulled the plug (so never went to the printers)

The author passed away in 2008.

Pretty certain I had the only copy in the world.

It was absolutely at the bottom of my 3000 comics underwater from hurricane Sandy!

As I removed waterlogged and black molded comic after comic I knew they were all replaceable except that one. I had zero hope for it's survival.

When I finally took it out from under the others (of course they were all in plastic protectors but not enough to keep out water submersion) I found a miracle (of physics at least)

It was bone dry!!!

I'm guessing the different type of paper and it's smaller size relative to the professionally printed books and the weight of a thousand comics above flattened the book so much not s drop of water entered the plastic protector.

I still Marvel at that and now more than ever that book is priceless to me.

Wow. Well at least the best one was saved.

We booked two back to back stays in Vegas, not for exactly next week, more like...for when the weather cools considerably. The trip will probably end up being in the range of 2 - 3 weeks long.

So, there will be more Adventures content and play by play Coming Soon!

Some still ask, why anyone posts at an internet forum.

The topic here is gambling!

Once one books a trip to Vegas, or any vacation really, the juices of thought start flowing.

I don't just mean in respect of John Lennon's "Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans." - but also in respect of the anticipation and excitement as the date comes closer. This prolepsis is fun too, not as much as the trip itself, but not to be discounted.

And posting, talking about gambling while a trip is on the horizon, adds to the juice flow!

Never did I think that my gambling career would get nipped in the bud by a pandemic. I heard there's a declared civil war out there now, so avoid the gun-toting caravans.

Anybody notice this shootout in the craps pit in the Black Panther movie?

@MDawg

What kind of shoes go with an ice-blue dial platinum Daytona ?

I was thinking Berluti alligator oxfords in blue. There’s a Berluti store right next to the Cosmopolitan

Quote: Ace2

@MDawg

What kind of shoes go with an ice-blue dial platinum Daytona ?

Ace I don't like to talk about what I don't have yet. It gets into the "coveting" category. lol

But just to indulge...for a minute only...I dunno, I suppose you could match at least your belt to the chocolate dials and bezel? I'm not so into brown belts and shoes though more black all the way.

The alligator blue shoes you mention are pretty f'ing nice tho.

Actually - the extent to which I match my watches to my clothing is more along the lines of...platinum or white gold (or stainless steel) watch, wear sterling silver buckle. Yellow or rose gold watch, wear brass / gold tone buckle.

They have 186 platinum Daytonas listed on http://chrono24.com/. Starting at $69,888