Bankrolling with Credit cards - an "advantage" for players?
February 22nd, 2014 at 2:05:07 PM
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It did not occur to me this was already possible (Credit to "C-SRT8" on another board for posting ):
" Atlantic City casinos already allow prepaid access cards for slot machines."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/vegas-slots-soon-will-accept-pre-paid-debit-cards
It appears, in fact, that you can, already, fund, not just online gaming, but on site casino gaming, indirectly @ Borgata & Golden Nugget in AC.
You sign up for a debit card (fees sound nominal), "load it" with your credit card, & you can access the cash without fees, at the cage.
Many major credit card issuers, with the exception of Citibank, normally treat the funding of debit cards (in general) as a "purchase" (vs. a cash advance w/fees).
I have credit cards that rebate me 2% or more in travel & other benefits.
All things being equal, seems like you could add 2%- or more* -"advantage" by using a cc to fund your normal Bankroll?
*if you have a new cc spending bonus , or one with a progressive spending bonus, could be a lot more valuable
Borgata & Golden Nugget cards:
https://borgata.mycardplace.com/cholder/welcome.action#
https://goldennugget.mycardplace.com/cholder/
Any thoughts?
" Atlantic City casinos already allow prepaid access cards for slot machines."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/vegas-slots-soon-will-accept-pre-paid-debit-cards
It appears, in fact, that you can, already, fund, not just online gaming, but on site casino gaming, indirectly @ Borgata & Golden Nugget in AC.
You sign up for a debit card (fees sound nominal), "load it" with your credit card, & you can access the cash without fees, at the cage.
Many major credit card issuers, with the exception of Citibank, normally treat the funding of debit cards (in general) as a "purchase" (vs. a cash advance w/fees).
I have credit cards that rebate me 2% or more in travel & other benefits.
All things being equal, seems like you could add 2%- or more* -"advantage" by using a cc to fund your normal Bankroll?
*if you have a new cc spending bonus , or one with a progressive spending bonus, could be a lot more valuable
Borgata & Golden Nugget cards:
https://borgata.mycardplace.com/cholder/welcome.action#
https://goldennugget.mycardplace.com/cholder/
Any thoughts?
February 22nd, 2014 at 2:23:55 PM
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Don't forget to divide any gain on rebate by the number of times you'll play through your bankroll. If you fund a debit card with $10,000, and get $200 cash back, but you then play blackjack with a 0.5% house edge for $40,000 worth of bets, you're theoretically even. +2% / 4x playthrough = +0.5%, wiped out by the -0.5% edge on the game.
Also, consider:
1) Fund debit card with $1,000 credit card charge, earn $10 (say) in cash reward
2) Withdraw cash from debit card at casino
3) Don't gamble; deposit cash in bank.
4) Pay off credit card
Net +$10 with no effort other than moving money around. Rinse and repeat.
I have a feeling there are safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen, but I could be wrong.
Also, consider:
1) Fund debit card with $1,000 credit card charge, earn $10 (say) in cash reward
2) Withdraw cash from debit card at casino
3) Don't gamble; deposit cash in bank.
4) Pay off credit card
Net +$10 with no effort other than moving money around. Rinse and repeat.
I have a feeling there are safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen, but I could be wrong.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
February 22nd, 2014 at 2:34:01 PM
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Quote: MathExtremistI have a feeling there are safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen, but I could be wrong.
Also consider the fact that many cash-back cards have an annual limit. The best one I have [Citi] provides no accounting whatsoever on how they derive how much cash I am to get back. It never makes sense. Nonetheless I put up with it since it is the most generous one I have.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
February 22nd, 2014 at 2:49:39 PM
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1."Don't gamble; deposit cash in bank"
Absolutely correct- but no fun!
2. "I have a feeling there are safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen, but I could be wrong."
Maybe, but I am one of those who travels the world free buying debit cards with credit cards- for ex:
http://boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/2013/04/24/the-bluebird-metric/
3."Don't forget to divide any gain on rebate by the number of times you'll play through your bankroll. If you fund a debit card with $10,000, and get $200 cash back, but you then play blackjack with a 0.5% house edge for $40,000 worth of bets, you're theoretically even. +2% / 4x playthrough = +0.5%, wiped out by the -0.5% edge on the game."
Actually, great point, my premise was flawed (can't use same bankroll amt)!
So chew on this:
Let's say my normal bankroll is $1k & i am prepared to to play thru my bankroll 10X ($10k coin in?)
Instead, I bankroll $10k via cc, stop after $10k, guarantee $200 in rebates...how would my expected return look vs playing thru 1k 10X?
Absolutely correct- but no fun!
2. "I have a feeling there are safeguards in place to ensure this doesn't happen, but I could be wrong."
Maybe, but I am one of those who travels the world free buying debit cards with credit cards- for ex:
http://boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/2013/04/24/the-bluebird-metric/
3."Don't forget to divide any gain on rebate by the number of times you'll play through your bankroll. If you fund a debit card with $10,000, and get $200 cash back, but you then play blackjack with a 0.5% house edge for $40,000 worth of bets, you're theoretically even. +2% / 4x playthrough = +0.5%, wiped out by the -0.5% edge on the game."
Actually, great point, my premise was flawed (can't use same bankroll amt)!
So chew on this:
Let's say my normal bankroll is $1k & i am prepared to to play thru my bankroll 10X ($10k coin in?)
Instead, I bankroll $10k via cc, stop after $10k, guarantee $200 in rebates...how would my expected return look vs playing thru 1k 10X?
February 22nd, 2014 at 2:52:44 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitAlso consider the fact that many cash-back cards have an annual limit. The best one I have [Citi] provides no accounting whatsoever on how they derive how much cash I am to get back. It never makes sense. Nonetheless I put up with it since it is the most generous one I have.
A number of travel rebate cards do not have limits.
February 22nd, 2014 at 3:09:44 PM
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I have the amazon credit card through chase, which has no annual fee, cash back for rewards (min 1%; 2 or 3% for some categories) and no limit to the amount of cash back that you can get.
Having said that, the money is coming from somewhere. If the credit card is counting the reload as a purchase, that means that they are getting swipe fees. ie, the company that issues the debit card is paying the credit card company. The means that the casino also pays a fee when you withdraw the money from the debit card. I seriously doubt that they will keep paying these fees if you don't gamble enough with them. There is no way that they will let you repeatedly go to the cage, buy chips with the card, cash those chips in, and eat the 3% or whatever they will end up paying.
Having said that, the money is coming from somewhere. If the credit card is counting the reload as a purchase, that means that they are getting swipe fees. ie, the company that issues the debit card is paying the credit card company. The means that the casino also pays a fee when you withdraw the money from the debit card. I seriously doubt that they will keep paying these fees if you don't gamble enough with them. There is no way that they will let you repeatedly go to the cage, buy chips with the card, cash those chips in, and eat the 3% or whatever they will end up paying.
February 22nd, 2014 at 3:23:21 PM
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On a related note the Paypal debit card pays 1.5% cash back for any purchases but not for debit transactions that require a PIN number. For quite a long time they would also pay the 1.5% on cash withdrawal transactions at a bank using a teller, not ATM. Limit of withdrawal using the card is $400. per day. I had two accounts, so could do $800 per day giving me $12. cash back per day. Then you could deposit the $800 back into the account and repeat daily. If you did this every day you would have over $4000 for the year just for making the stop at the bank. After a year or two they not only stopped the cash back on withdrawals involving a teller, but now charge a dollar or two for those transactions. It was good while it lasted though.
February 22nd, 2014 at 5:05:22 PM
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I do this too. I have the MileagePlus Club Card which earns me 1.5 point per $1. But it costs me $39.50 to buy $5,000 worth of Vanilla, plus the hassle of going to the store and entering the info in Bluebird. I think it is still worth it to get 7500 miles per month. But United miles are not worth that much anymore. What do you do?Quote: 7star4nowMaybe, but I am one of those who travels the world free buying debit cards with credit cards- for ex:
http://boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/2013/04/24/the-bluebird-metric/
I never considered what you're proposing. Credit cards and casinos do not mix. But I find it intriguing.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
February 22nd, 2014 at 6:01:44 PM
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"Credit cards and casinos do not mix. But I find it intriguing."
Bullseye.
My gut feeling also.
However, I have "traveled around the world" (including 1st class air & 1st class hotels), no gambling reqd., many times for free, & still have 100s of thousands of miles in reserve for future trips ,by following the math done by those smarter than I who write "how to travel free blogs" & "flyertalk"- all based on optimizing credit card spend.
My instinct tells me, since gambling has an even lower demographic market share than travel, "finer minds" than I may find even more lucrative loopholes as "manufactured spending"' et al, can be applied to gaming.
I am just providing "food for thought".
Bullseye.
My gut feeling also.
However, I have "traveled around the world" (including 1st class air & 1st class hotels), no gambling reqd., many times for free, & still have 100s of thousands of miles in reserve for future trips ,by following the math done by those smarter than I who write "how to travel free blogs" & "flyertalk"- all based on optimizing credit card spend.
My instinct tells me, since gambling has an even lower demographic market share than travel, "finer minds" than I may find even more lucrative loopholes as "manufactured spending"' et al, can be applied to gaming.
I am just providing "food for thought".
February 22nd, 2014 at 6:22:23 PM
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I just want to know, is this good, how much can we/I make and when/how can I start?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
February 22nd, 2014 at 6:40:56 PM
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I've never actually used a card in this way, but I've always thought there was a fee for cash advance type purchases. Does this get around this?
February 22nd, 2014 at 7:02:33 PM
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Quote: geoffI've never actually used a card in this way, but I've always thought there was a fee for cash advance type purchases. Does this get around this?
1.YMMV..(your mileage may vary) -as no reported results yet w/ BG & GN cards
2. as far as I can see, I potentially gain $20 per thousand in bankroll funded this way & it comes out of the Credit card "Vig", ie cost casinos nothing, I think may be perpetual advantage (cc's still make $ on vig, lower % but , higher volume)
ex here:
Q: Will Chase treat the purchase of a Vanilla Reload (debit) card as a cash advance, or is it treated like any other Office Depot purchase?
A: It will be treated as a normal purchase, with no sales tax.
Read more: http://thepointsguy.com/2012/11/maximizing-american-express-bluebird-to-earn-miles-and-points-faq/#ixzz2u6sSAmza
Follow us: @thepointsguy on Twitter | thepointsguy on Facebook
March 3rd, 2014 at 6:21:48 AM
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Quote: 7star4nowIt did not occur to me this was already possible (Credit to "C-SRT8" on another board for posting ):
" Atlantic City casinos already allow prepaid access cards for slot machines."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/vegas-slots-soon-will-accept-pre-paid-debit-cards
It appears, in fact, that you can, already, fund, not just online gaming, but on site casino gaming, indirectly @ Borgata & Golden Nugget in AC.
You sign up for a debit card (fees sound nominal), "load it" with your credit card, & you can access the cash without fees, at the cage.
Many major credit card issuers, with the exception of Citibank, normally treat the funding of debit cards (in general) as a "purchase" (vs. a cash advance w/fees).
I have credit cards that rebate me 2% or more in travel & other benefits.
All things being equal, seems like you could add 2%- or more* -"advantage" by using a cc to fund your normal Bankroll?
*if you have a new cc spending bonus , or one with a progressive spending bonus, could be a lot more valuable
Borgata & Golden Nugget cards:
https://borgata.mycardplace.com/cholder/welcome.action#
https://goldennugget.mycardplace.com/cholder/
Any thoughts?
Why not just open a "Front Line" account at the cashier. It's like having a personal bank account at the casino. "Perks" do follow.
8 more years till retirement.
June 12th, 2015 at 3:38:45 AM
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I know some more. You can filter this list to see casinos in your country.
(link removed by moderator)
(link removed by moderator)
June 12th, 2015 at 6:26:03 AM
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Quote: MilamaI know some more. You can filter this list to see casinos in your country.
(link removed by moderator)
Judging by the links you have provided in you first two posts upon joining this site you seem to be a fan of online casinos. Can you tell us of your experience with them?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
June 12th, 2015 at 7:20:33 AM
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The casino is only hobby for me. With the help of the site I only elect interesting prepositions and participate in it.
June 12th, 2015 at 8:45:35 AM
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Milama, thanks for providing a link to my site, I have seen some people came through it, that's how I found it. However, I am afraid this may be viewed as a spam, which I do not endorse. Please do not do it anymore on this forum.
June 12th, 2015 at 12:39:37 PM
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Quote: 1BBJudging by the links you have provided in you first two posts upon joining this site you seem to be a fan of online casinos. Can you tell us of your experience with them?
1BB, I can tell you everything you want to know about online casinos (even without providing any links :)) but please ask more specifically. In general, there are many of them, there a bad ones, and good ones, and some very good ones. As I understand, this is a forum of betting system players. Mathematically, any betting system works just as fine in an online casino as it does in a land-based one, although some people do not believe in mathematics :) However, most good casinos now offer live deal (web cam) games which brings your online experience even closer to that in a B&M casino.
June 12th, 2015 at 3:00:51 PM
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Quote: KeyToCasinoMilama, thanks for providing a link to my site, I have seen some people came through it, that's how I found it. However, I am afraid this may be viewed as a spam, which I do not endorse. Please do not do it anymore on this forum.
Key,
Thanks very much for respecting the rules of this forum, and welcome. I'll be removing his link from this thread and any others. I'm sure that if you'd like to sponsor a link to your site here, your inquiry would be heard. Please Private Message (light blue menu above) Zuga if you're interested.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
June 12th, 2015 at 3:07:29 PM
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Quote: MilamaThe casino is only hobby for me. With the help of the site I only elect interesting prepositions and participate in it.
I'm going to assume Milama was attempting to be helpful as opposed to spamming, and stop short with a warning, due to this response and KeyToCasino's reply above, as well as 7star having posted numerous links (it appears Milama was posting as additional information to that). Milama, please take the time to read the forum rules via this link, especially rule 3, before posting again. I have deleted the links you included in your first two posts. Thank you!
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
