Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
• Posts: 1567
February 17th, 2014 at 2:31:13 PM permalink
Is card counting technically a betting system?
From my understanding a basic definition of a betting system is adjusting your bets based on previous events.
Card Counting is the process of adjusting or not adjusting your bet based on the cards that exit the shoe so I would argue based on the technical definition it would be considered a betting system.
Would anyone on here agree with this?
Also, in case you are wondering why I ask, I got into a debate the other night and attempted to argue that counting is a betting system, so I was hoping somebody on here would validate my view (also I am very aware of the differences between counting and adjusting bets based purely on bets won or lost. I am arguing strictly from a definitional point of view)?
sodawater
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 3321
February 17th, 2014 at 2:35:06 PM permalink
Counting cards can provide information to be used in both betting decisions and playing decisions. In shoe games especially, advantages from proper betting far outweigh the advantages from playing deviations.

I would call card counting a hybrid betting/playing system.
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012
• Posts: 1348
February 17th, 2014 at 2:52:41 PM permalink
A betting system is varying your bet size based on previous events. Card counting is varying your bet size based on the present state of the cards. That's the difference.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
Gandler
Joined: Jan 27, 2014
• Posts: 1567
February 17th, 2014 at 3:06:20 PM permalink
Quote: 24Bingo

A betting system is varying your bet size based on previous events. Card counting is varying your bet size based on the present state of the cards. That's the difference.

Right, but that is based on previous events. The only reason there is a present state is because of what exited the shoe?
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
February 17th, 2014 at 3:21:55 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Is card counting technically a betting system?
From my understanding a basic definition of a betting system is adjusting your bets based on previous events.

Nope, not at all. Here, "previous events" means previous bet outcomes, not any arbitrary thing that happened in the past. A betting system calculates the amount of the next bet based on some function of the outcome of one or more prior bets. Card counting calculates the amount of the next bet based on the estimated deck distribution and associated house or player edge (estimated via the count). The count of a remaining blackjack shoe is effectively independent of whether the previous hand won or lost.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
gpac1377
Joined: Apr 7, 2013
• Posts: 676
February 17th, 2014 at 3:29:50 PM permalink
Wikipedia agrees with you Gandler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_Systems

(Card counting is listed as an example of a well-known betting system.)

I agree that if you define the term broadly enough, it would seem to include card counting.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
February 17th, 2014 at 3:38:20 PM permalink
Quote: gpac1377

Wikipedia agrees with you Gandler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_Systems

(Card counting is listed as an example of a well-known betting system.)

I agree that if you define the term broadly enough, it would seem to include card counting.

It also says "A betting strategy or betting system is a structured approach to gambling intended to counter the inherent house edge in casino and card games," and then lists "Roulette - Martingale."
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
gpac1377
Joined: Apr 7, 2013
• Posts: 676
February 17th, 2014 at 3:52:47 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

It also says "A betting strategy or betting system is a structured approach to gambling intended to counter the inherent house edge in casino and card games," and then lists "Roulette - Martingale."

LOLwikipedia :)

I think "betting system" is an unavoidably ambiguous term, so I declare everyone in this thread correct, except myself.
"Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter."
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 11933
February 17th, 2014 at 3:55:01 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
February 17th, 2014 at 4:15:08 PM permalink
Quote: gpac1377

LOLwikipedia :)

I think "betting system" is an unavoidably ambiguous term, so I declare everyone in this thread correct, except myself.

I like the phrase "insolubly ambiguous" myself.

http://patentlyo.com/patent/2005/08/claims_definite.html
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563