Do you have Win/Loss Goals and Limits?
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 | 11 votes (28.2%) | ||
| | 23 votes (58.97%) | ||
| | 4 votes (10.25%) | ||
| | 4 votes (10.25%) | ||
| | 6 votes (15.38%) |
39 members have voted
June 23rd, 2013 at 2:11:46 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesOh hell. Here we go again with the false analogy of winning in a casino to being a thief.
And here we go with the personal redefinition of "winning" to mean self-righteously attempting to subvert the nature of the casino transaction.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 2:14:30 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2013 at 2:39:54 PM
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Funny, that seems like more a response to the highfalutin speeches about how the "predatory" casinos have no right to complain about patrons attempting to change the assumptions underlying the game while playing with everything funded under those assumptions, and the euphemistic reference to such an attitude as "winning" and its opposite as "ploppiedom" or "anorexia."
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 2:53:28 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2013 at 3:02:05 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI don't think casinos are predatory. Others may but I don't.
Really? You think they're charities or performing a public
service? Or worse yet, they're an 'entertainment venue'?
(god I hate that phrase) Of course they're predatory,
they want your money, and thats all they want. They
don't give fair value, they don't give any value at all. You
lose, as most do, and you have what to show for it? A
rosy memory of losing? Most people go back not because
its such a grand time, its because they're chasing
their losses. Oh boy..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 3:07:04 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2013 at 3:34:39 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesWalmart does the same thing. All your essentials hidden in back or at the ends of the store with all the crap and junk you don't need right up front in plain view. All businesses rely on these tricks. Doesn't make them predatory.
.
But when you buy something at Walmart, you
leave with something of VALUE for your money.
When you leave the casino you have NOTHING
of value for your money, unless you won, which
most people don't. When you get nothing of
value for your money, thats a predatory environment.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 5:43:13 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThey don't give fair value, they don't give any value at all. You
lose, as most do, and you have what to show for it? A rosy memory of losing?
This is completely wrong. The fact that you have "nothing to show for it" is beside the point. What do you have to show for attending an NFL game? Or hiking Yellowstone? Or attending Disneyland? Disney is about $100 a day for admission alone, and then there is the captive audience food prices, parking, etc.
Value is completely subjective. One man's trash is another man's treasure. You say that you think casinos provide no value yet you also play Baccarat. Your words are one thing but your actions another. Clearly you feel that the casinos DO provide value or you would not spend your money there. Even if you hated gambling it would be beside the point. The thought of hunting, fishing, camping, etc sounds like hell to me. Sitting in the outdoors and waiting waiting waiting is radically boring and I can't imagine doing it again. To me there is a negative value to these actions. However others spend a great deal of time and money to participate in these same activities. The only way we can measure the value of X is by asking how much money is somebody willing to pay for X. Can you offer a better system of measuring value?
Vote for Nobody 2020!
June 23rd, 2013 at 5:56:19 PM
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Quote: bigfoot66This is completely wrong. The fact that you have "nothing to show for it" is beside the point.
The fact that it provides no value is the point.
At Disneyland you go on rides, you leave with
fond memories. At an NFL game you get to see
it in person, to experience the game right in
front of you. In the casino you get to play a
game that you have no chance of beating in
the long run. No value.
So what. If thats what people want, so what.
Just don't try and tell me its something it isn't.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 6:05:37 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesI don't think casinos are predatory. Others may but I don't.
In fact, in the Casino Gaming Handbook, written for
casino execs, they recommend not letting skilled
players into your casino. Not AP's, just people who
are knowledgeable about the games and can play
close to even and know when to quit. This doesn't
sound predatory? They might as well come
right out and say all they want are clueless losers.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 6:07:57 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2013 at 6:53:05 PM
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Quote: EvenBobThe fact that it provides no value is the point.
At Disneyland you go on rides, you leave with
fond memories. At an NFL game you get to see
it in person, to experience the game right in
front of you. In the casino you get to play a
game that you have no chance of beating in
the long run. No value.
So what. If thats what people want, so what.
Just don't try and tell me its something it isn't.
You did not really address the points I made Bob, especially the fact that value is subjective and there is not a better to way to measure value than money. The whole point of the examples was that some people value NFL games or camping or Disneyland and others do not. There are people that you couldn't pay to ride the rides at Disneyland. Likewise, some people value the opportunity to gamble and others don't. You say that you are in one camp but in fact you are in the other.
Vote for Nobody 2020!
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:09:55 PM
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Quote: IbeatyouracesIts just a legal form of discrimination. I sure as hell wouldn't bet against someone that has the edge on me either.
Also, I doubt it's true. How often are you at a full blackjack table where there aren't several players, "civilians," who know and follow basic strategy, and in many cases castigate those who don't? If they draw the line anywhere short of AP, surely a .37% edge is behind it. Either that book isn't popular (I have a sneaking suspicion EvenBob is delving into the mob days, although the only result I've found for "Casino Gaming Handbook" suggests recency, albeit not popularity), or its advice is being misstated.
(In any case, I'll usually set only a loss limit - typically, where I'm at right now, $200 in poker, $100 in table games, $20 in slots brick and mortar, $100 Bovada poker, maybe both a win and loss goal if I play their casino or poker-client Blackjack, of $30-50. I'll usually get out of online NL games - don't really play NL brick and mortar - if I and others are up to about 2.5-3 stacks, because "gambler's ruin.")
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:14:54 PM
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Quote: 24BingoEither that book isn't popular)
http://www.amazon.com/Casino-Security-Gaming-Surveillance-Derk/dp/1420087827/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372040052&sr=8-1&keywords=casino+security+and+gaming+surveillance
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:24:11 PM
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I see now that a book, which may or may not be popular, which may or may not say what you say it says, which isn't named what you called it but something similar, exists.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:40:52 PM
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Quote: 24BingoI see now that a book, which may or may not be popular, which may or may not say what you say it says, which isn't named what you called it but something similar, exists.
So lets not talk about the quote, which you obviously
don't like, lets demean the source. Everybody knows
all casinos want is your money. And if you can beat
them, or even stay even with them and know when
to quit, they want nothing to do with you.
pred·a·to·ry
/ˈpredəˌtôrē/
Adjective
1. Seeking to exploit or oppress others.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:40:56 PM
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2013 at 7:55:08 PM
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Quote: EvenBobSo lets not talk about the quote, which you obviously
don't like, lets demean the source. Everybody knows
all casinos want is your money. And if you can beat
them, or even stay even with them and know when
to quit, they want nothing to do with you.
I don't see a quote; I see a paraphrase, that if both true and general practice, would mean a casino environment not much like that which I see in reality.
Casinos want your money, just like everyone else. For your money, they give a venue in which to gamble, something some people value - even if you don't - and are willing to pay for. For that venue, they reasonably expect a cut. To get that cut, either they take it explicitly (pai gow, poker, sports/race book, buy bets, banker bets), or they set up the game so that they end up with a net win, and disallow practices that subvert that setup. Is it exploitation? Sure, but so is everything else. Oppression, predation? Hardly.
(And if you think they give a damn who "knows when to quit," I must say you're in the right subforum.)
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 8:12:34 PM
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Quote: 24BingoI don't see a quote; I see a paraphrase, that if both true and general practice, would mean a casino environment not much like that which I see in reality.
You see what they want you to see. You obviously
aren't a threat to them, or you would know the
truth. You're the happy guy wandering around
the carnival with the chalk mark on his back that
was put there by a carnie. Happy as a clam you
are. Everything is right with the world..
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 23rd, 2013 at 8:16:15 PM
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If you say so. But you have said that it is common practice for casinos to kick out non-AP players who play at a low edge (and "know when to quit," as if that makes a difference). This is an extraordinary claim, given how loudly some proclaim basic strategy at the blackjack table, and I'd like to see the scantest evidence.
The trick to poker is learning not to beat yourself up for your mistakes too much, and certainly not too little, but just the right amount.
June 23rd, 2013 at 8:43:13 PM
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Quote: 24BingoIf you say so. But you have said that it is common practice for casinos to kick out .
Holy crap, I never said they kick anybody out. I said
they recommended that those players not be allowed
there. Go back and read it again. I have no idea if
they get kicked out and and never said they were.
Its the casino ATTITUDE that makes them predatory.
They only want your money, they only want suckers
if they can get them, and if you have any skill at all you
aren't welcome.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 24th, 2013 at 6:12:47 AM
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Quote: EvenBobThe fact that it provides no value is the point.
At Disneyland you go on rides, you leave with
fond memories. At an NFL game you get to see
it in person, to experience the game right in
front of you. In the casino you get to play a
game that you have no chance of beating in
the long run. No value.
So what. If thats what people want, so what.
Just don't try and tell me its something it isn't.
I have difficulty with this argument, because it seems that one also leaves the casino with memories, perhaps fond, perhaps not. I went to Disney years ago, stayed at Coronado Springs, most of my memories of that trip aren't fond. They're of my blood boiling with the tremendous heat...in May...waiting in long lines, and paying too much for food.
What does it cost to go to Disney or any other activity? Just make it your bankroll. If the Table Minimums are too high for someone, then they shouldn't play. They also shouldn't lose more than they can afford, or even any more than their loss limit, just because of the psychological impact.
Hell, though, they have free concerts, sometimes, and the pop/coffee are always free. I can go in there with $5.00 or $10.00 and play Video Keno, if I were so inclined, drink free beverages and listen to a live band. I have trouble seeing that there is no value there.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
August 5th, 2013 at 7:39:54 AM
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Casino games always trick us with some small winning or showing the best symbol of the game but not making a line with it.
Important thing when playing is not to take all the money or the credit cards with you because at the end, one day, you will finish to lose it all.
I always start playing with a small bet and continue with raising until I reach a point that I see that the machine is not paying more then that limit.
in the link bellow check how does a random slot machine pays us!
www.novomaticgames.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-does-slot-pays-us.html
Important thing when playing is not to take all the money or the credit cards with you because at the end, one day, you will finish to lose it all.
I always start playing with a small bet and continue with raising until I reach a point that I see that the machine is not paying more then that limit.
in the link bellow check how does a random slot machine pays us!
www.novomaticgames.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-does-slot-pays-us.html
