Nevada’s casinos decline for the third straight month.

Nevada’s casino industry experiences a revenue decline for the third straight month. http://bit.ly/2Gwy0iO

* At least the declines are getting smaller.
For the third time in three months, Nevada’s statewide casino industry experienced a monthly gaming revenue decrease, although March’s 0.12 percent wasn’t much of a decline – $1,201,154 to be exact. The figures were released Thursday by the Gaming Control Board. http://bit.ly/2Gwy0iO

Too many horrific baccarat side bets scared the players away.

I’d be interested in seeing amount of visitors from so-cal vs 10 years ago. I think the San Diego casinos and San Manuel/Morongo are probably crushing Vegas and they know it. They do almost everything but the shows as good or better without having to deal with all the ticky tack bs and bad games that have cropped up in LV in that timespan.

Which of these do you think drives more players away?

1) Bad games
2) Charging for parking, overpriced food and beverage, general nickel and diming


I would say #2 would chase the average player away more often than the bad paytables, or 6:5 blackjack.

1) Most tourists are unable to tell a good game from a bad one, nor do they really care. They are looking for the lucky table.
2) parking affects a minority of patrons, and a lot of people are either comped or on expense accounts. I'd list nickel and diming as #3 and say all three affect a small minority but add up to a significant total.

Quote: FCBLComish

Which of these do you think drives more players away?

1) Bad games
2) Charging for parking, overpriced food and beverage, general nickel and diming


I would say #2 would chase the average player away more often than the bad paytables, or 6:5 blackjack.

I agree, #2. Regarding bad games, we see many don’t notice and I think many of the casinos that offer poor games would say don’t care if they lose the customers that notice or care what the paytables are. The ones that do notice can still find more reasonable games off strip and sometimes a better selection using the So-Cal comparison but only maybe three of the off strip casinos have a comparable resort type property as say pechanga, viejas, pala or barona.

#2 affects more people as far as how they perceive they are being treated, almost everyone notices that especially if they experienced LV before that. When you see a charge for ice or condiments on your restaurant receipt, it’s not about the 0.50, it’s about how it makes you feel.

I haven't been to Vegas for ages but I felt in the old days the customer was put first - if you're enjoying being here with cheap food etc., then you'll gamble more and/or come back.

The aim now seems to be to grab as much money off the punters as possible - besides there must be plenty more to fleece later. (That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but you understand the idea.)

With online gambling easily available, land based casinos are less important to "punters. The geographical factor that other places are now available, means Las Vegas needs to try harder to attract people rather than just wait for punters to show up.

Stories, such as charging for parking, don't help their cause. I'm not so sure about bad games, as they always kept to double-zero Roulette, but eventually if they go too far then people will begin to notice.

Quote: FCBLComish

Which of these do you think drives more players away?

1) Bad games
2) Charging for parking, overpriced food and beverage, general nickel and diming


I would say #2 would chase the average player away more often than the bad paytables, or 6:5 blackjack.

Agree with 2 over 1. I would add disappearance of cheap eats at odd hours, less free music places, and word getting around about $500 bottle clubs and other ridiculous pricing. Grouping all that under 2, similar but it's gotten that unattractive reputation.

But I really think 3. Might be the biggest factor - the preponderance of closer gaming and recent opening of sports betting nationwide.

One pet peeve is the fact some places are comped, and some aren't. CET is a big offender of this. They have a brochure as to what's owned by them or not, but why not put a sign at each restaurant if it is or not owned by CET. It's a PITA to decipher. I'm sitting on like 150k reward credits and the lack of transparency makes it not worth going to the casinos.

Also the nickel and diming before you even sit at a game makes people gamble less. Resort fees, parking fees, etc. I think that ploppies don't care too much about paytables, but they do realize that their money doesn't last as long as years past. They don't understand it, but they can see it.

Agree with the other states getting casinos. On top of that, they aren't just random gambling joints with a few slots and bingo games, some casinos in Southern California are on par, if not better than the megaresorts on the strip. When California gets sportsbetting legalized, Vegas might suffer a lot.

I think I've said this before, but if someone were coming out to Vegas to visit and they are gamblers, I would tell them to stay at South Point. Stay off the strip, or just visit there and not stay or play at all. I can't think of any other casino that does food and gambling better than them. Maybe not the best in all categories, but South Point covers the important things at a level not found in one casino anywhere else. I suppose if the visitor is a "high roller" the strip is still great for them, but most people are coming out with a thousand at most to gamble. They have a high level steakhouse (Micheal's), middle of the road pricing joints (Primarily Prime Rib, Silverado's), Asian food (Zenshin), Mexican (Baja Grill), late night (forgot the name of the place but they have $5.99 steak specials), and a buffet. Most 99%+ VP games. Not sure about their slots but I assume that they are pretty loose. Cocktail waitresses that aren't like 69+ years old. Great sportsbook that's 24/7 and from what I heard they don't sweat big bets that much.

One bad thing is their table games are horrible in terms of odds (Euro BJ, 2x craps odds).

Go to some LOCAL casinos. They offer better pricing. Better odds. Such as Stations.

Since I play a lot of poker, I talk to a lot of them.

Interestingly, poker is one area where Vegas offers a better to vastly superior deal compared to regional casinos. The rake is lower than most places and it is FAR lower than in california. In California, they take $7 out of every pot and $1 or $2 more for promotions. AND it is legal for the casinos to skim the promotional pool.

Here, they usually take a maximum of $5, and that only occurs when the pot reaches a certain size, where they take it immediately in CA. Of course, promotional money must be returned to players. So, I'd say it's a difference of at least $3 a hand, i.e. $90 an hour being pulled from the game.

Additionally, Vegas casinos give poker players $1-$2/hr in comps, while other places give between $0 and $1.

I'd say at least half are completely oblivious to this. When discussing promotions, a lot of them are unaware that promotional drops even exist.

However, they DO bitch about the fees, paying $15 for a pedestrian bagel and a coffee, etc.

My #1 tip to tourists is to stop at a grocery or convenience store, even if you have to pay extra for an Uber from the airport. You'll easily save $100 on snacks and drinks over a few days. This is the sort of thing where greed can become self defeating. More people will realize this. You already see many checking in with coolers. Now, instead of selling them 10 sodas at $2.50 each you're selling them zero at $4.00.

IMUninformedO, the Venetian is a lot smarter about this. Free parking, obv. But they offer fair value on the smaller stuff. A slice of pizza or a piece of fruit is usually pretty reasonable, for the strip. People need a break. OK, we splurged on a nice dinner last night. We'd like to have a small, quick lunch for maybe $10-12. Most CET and MGM places are like, "nope! $25 for a burger, fries and drink at a take out place."

The Bouchon bakery isn't cheap, but it's at least it is super high quality. I wouldn't expect dramatically lower prices at such a place off the strip. I'm happy to pay $4 for the best cheese danish on earth. A lot of the other joints are pushing stuff that looks and tastes like something from 7-11 for higher prices.

I personally feel that Nevada Casinos are in decline because Nevada is no longer one of the few places in US to gamble anymore. IINM, not too long ago, only Nevada(Las Vegas/Reno) and New Jersey(Atlantic City) were the only places to go to a Casino and gamble. As of 2019, MANY States now have their own Casinos, so there really is no longer a need to go to Nevada or New Jersey anymore to gamble in Casinos. Heck, in just my County(Miami-Dade,) and the next County over(Broward), combined, there are currently like 10 different Casinos, and about 37 Casinos in the state of Florida itself, furthering my point.

#2 Many don't notice which games are bad. But they notice that they lose more. And they may feel the game is rigged. more noticeable for high stakes players.

Quote: Rigondeaux

IMUninformedO, the Venetian is a lot smarter about this. Free parking, obv.

Offering free parking now would be a bad idea on the strip. Now everyone will just park at the free parking spots and avoid paying the fee to go to the casino where there's an event on. I'm not sure how strict Venetian is on making sure people actually park and stay at the casino, but I know downtown had a huge problem with freeloaders that parked at Binions to panhandle all day.

Quote: djatc

I think I've said this before, but if someone were coming out to Vegas to visit and they are gamblers, I would tell them to stay at South Point. Stay off the strip, or just visit there and not stay or play at all. I can't think of any other casino that does food and gambling better than them. Maybe not the best in all categories, but South Point covers the important things at a level not found in one casino anywhere else. I suppose if the visitor is a "high roller" the strip is still great for them, but most people are coming out with a thousand at most to gamble. They have a high level steakhouse (Micheal's), middle of the road pricing joints (Primarily Prime Rib, Silverado's), Asian food (Zenshin), Mexican (Baja Grill), late night (forgot the name of the place but they have $5.99 steak specials), and a buffet. Most 99%+ VP games. Not sure about their slots but I assume that they are pretty loose. Cocktail waitresses that aren't like 69+ years old. Great sportsbook that's 24/7 and from what I heard they don't sweat big bets that much.

How can you forget Steak and Shake?????

Quote: SM777

Too many horrific baccarat side bets scared the players away.

Do you mind specifying which baccarat side bets are bad? How do you define "bad"? Normally bad bets do not survive. They are replaced by others quickly.

I have found in business it is often just as, if not more important, to find out why someone doesn't do business with you than it is to find out why someone does.

I find that Vegas and AC basically had a monopoly on gaming institutions like 30 years ago, and as their competition for the gaming dollar has increased the quality of the gaming has decreased. I can find a BJ table at $10 limits within a half hour of me at 3 separate locations with good rules. I cannot find that on the strip except for maybe at TI. and yes, I know I can get better rules at Station Casinos but when I bring my wife on a Vegas vacation she doesnt wanna stay out there she wants to stay on the strip.

Quote: Gabes22

I have found in business it is often just as, if not more important, to find out why someone doesn't do business with you than it is to find out why someone does.

I find that Vegas and AC basically had a monopoly on gaming institutions like 30 years ago, and as their competition for the gaming dollar has increased the quality of the gaming has decreased. I can find a BJ table at $10 limits within a half hour of me at 3 separate locations with good rules. I cannot find that on the strip except for maybe at TI. and yes, I know I can get better rules at Station Casinos but when I bring my wife on a Vegas vacation she doesnt wanna stay out there she wants to stay on the strip.

So you stay there and play in spite of knowing better games elsewhere in Vegas. In fact, you vacation and play where the games are inferior to your home casinos. Perhaps vegas is doing a better job marketing itself than you give it credit for. Your wife doesn't care about stuff you take care of, and the casino takes advantage of it. Passenger traffic at the airport is at record levels so people are coming in spite of worsening conditions.

I think you misunderstood my underlying point. My point is I do not go to Vegas anymore as a result of it. If I were to come on my own, I would have no problem staying at say Boulder Station. But if I were to bring her it would not happen, so we just do not go.

Quote: billryan

So you stay there and play in spite of knowing better games elsewhere in Vegas. In fact, you vacation and play where the games are inferior to your home casinos. Perhaps vegas is doing a better job marketing itself than you give it credit for. Your wife doesn't care about stuff you take care of, and the casino takes advantage of it. Passenger traffic at the airport is at record levels so people are coming in spite of worsening conditions.

Gambling in Vegas is on the decline. Alot of those people are coming for meetings, tradeshows, and conventions. Hence the Lucky Dragon being bought for meeting space.
When the economy has its next downturn Vegas is going to get a beatdown like never before.

Quote: MaxPen

Gambling in Vegas is on the decline. Alot of those people are coming for meetings, tradeshows, and conventions. Hence the Lucky Dragon being bought for meeting space.
When the economy has its next downturn Vegas is going to get a beatdown like never before.

Let's hope we are all well situated to take advantage of it. I'm a buyer at 2010 prices.

Quote: djatc

Offering free parking now would be a bad idea on the strip. Now everyone will just park at the free parking spots and avoid paying the fee to go to the casino where there's an event on. I'm not sure how strict Venetian is on making sure people actually park and stay at the casino, but I know downtown had a huge problem with freeloaders that parked at Binions to panhandle all day.

Sample size of 1.

However, I sometimes park at Venetian to go other places. Sometimes I wind up playing poker there. It's not the best room, but it's OK and it's right there and I can say hi to some dealers with whom I am friendly. If I am off keto, sometimes I'll go to the juice press and buy some overpriced, but awesome juice.

If I'm way off keto, I'll hit the bouchon bakery for one of those aforementioned danishes. Then wind up buying more stuff for later. Occasionally I'll have dinner some place.

Long story short, the free parking at Venetian results in me spending a few hundred bucks a year there in rake and carbs.




Damn, that's a long URL.

I go to Wynn sometimes because they validate the parking, as do the downtown casinos. If they didn't, I would never go.


On the other hand, I almost never play at MGM properties. I used to play there a lot. Belagio has my favorite 2/5 game, because it is $500 max buy in which keeps a lot of the better local players out of the game. But I'd have to park at CP (where I can park for free because I'm a big shot high roller), and walk over. It's not the walk, so much as the time spent walking.

Also, MGM did a nice move a few years ago where they zeroed out all poker comps over a year old without warning. Some people lost thousands. I probably lost $100-200. So whenever I'm contemplating going, that sort of tips me to not going. I like having my little stashes of comps around town without having to worry about them being stolen.

So by nickel and diming, and $100ing me to death, MGM has conservatively lost $1,000-$2,000 of my rake and food spending per year.

Let's see 42.12 million Vegas visitors in 2018
39.01 million in 2017
42.94 million 2016
42.31 million 2015
41.13 million 2014
39.67 million 2013
https://www.statista.com/statistics/221042/visitors-to-las-vegas/

Those numbers for 2018 don't look bad?

And here are the gaming revenue figures

Year # Loc # Games Game Rev % Δ # Slots Slot Rev % Δ Total Rev % Δ
2013 339 5,315 4,265,270 7.86% 156,766 6,753,755 -0.43% 11,142,915 2.60%
2014 339 5,373 4,151,949 -2.66% 153,491 6,746,835 -0.10% 11,018,688 -1.11%
2015 335 6,027 4,110,597 -1.00% 149,364 7,003,484 3.80% 11,114,081 0.87%
2016 334 5,881 4,093,991 -0.40% 145,813 7,163,156 2.28% 11,257,147 1.29%
2017 336 5,767 4,139,272 1.11% 142,309 7,431,841 3.75% 11,571,114 2.79%
2018 446 5,688 4,204,479 1.58% 141,051 7,712,891 3.78% 11,917,370 2.99%
https://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/NV_1984_present.pdf

Again, 2018 doesn't look bad at all at 4,204,479

Quote: Rigondeaux

Sample size of 1.

100% confirmation rate tho

This has probably been posted here before but it might be relevant to this thread:

Table games on the Strip from 1985 to 2018

BJ has been on a steady decline for the last 35 years. Baccarat revenue overtook BJ revenue around 2008. Great Recession related somehow? Lots of other interesting numbers in there.

Quote: djatc

I'm not sure how strict Venetian is on making sure people actually park and stay at the casino, but I know downtown had a huge problem with freeloaders that parked at Binions to panhandle all day.

That's probably a big fat lie/excuse. Name one panhandler that even owns a car. My stereotypical thinking is that All panhandlers ride the bus, all bus riders panhandle.

Quote: mcallister3200

I’d be interested in seeing amount of visitors from so-cal vs 10 years ago. I think the San Diego casinos and San Manuel/Morongo are probably crushing Vegas and they know it. They do almost everything but the shows as good or better without having to deal with all the ticky tack bs and bad games that have cropped up in LV in that timespan.

I don't like to gamble where I live. When would it stop? Every day could be a day to "hit the casino."

I tend to win but I play only in Vegas (used to play in Tahoe too, but the BJ odds aren't that great and they don't have much of any midi-Bacc. any longer). A focused hit and run trip and then leave a winner seems to work for me. I don't think I could do it open-ended with NO departure date AT ALL in sight, hence I don't even try.

But, as you point out, many do play in their backyards. I think part of the reason for Tahoe's decline is all of the Indian casinos around the bottom of the mountain.

Quote: AxelWolf

That's probably a big fat lie/excuse. Name one panhandler that even owns a car. My stereotypical thinking is that All panhandlers ride the bus, all bus riders panhandle.

Here's just one example. It happens all the time. Panhandlers can make tons of money.

Quote: TigerWu

Here's just one example. It happens all the time. Panhandlers can make tons of money.

Should franchute ir.

Hmm... Casinos in both Macau and Australia have shown revenue declines this year as well. I wonder how Europe is doing.