Philly casino Sugarhouse fined for short decks

Can't paste the link here but the casino had been fined for short decks. Does this happen often?


philly/business/tourism_casinos/state-fines-sugarhouse-100k-dealing-short-decks-20181003

Quote: blick

Can't paste the link here but the casino had been fined for short decks. Does this happen often?


philly/business/tourism_casinos/state-fines-sugarhouse-100k-dealing-short-decks-20181003

http://www2.philly.com/philly/business/tourism_casinos/state-fines-sugarhouse-100k-dealing-short-decks-20181003.html

Awww you broke the news. I was waiting for the suspension of zenking to be up before posting.

Quote: GWAE

Awww you broke the news. I was waiting for the suspension of zenking to be up before posting.

Tomorrow. Tomorrow. He'll gloat-rant tomorrow. It's only a day away.

The story sounds like a mistake, and supervisors just not doing their job rather than taking specific cards out to cheat.

I once had a card room in Washington state with an auto shuffler red lighting every shoe for 3-4 shoes and dealer hand shuffling instead, meanwhile they had two different colors of decks mixed together and about 20 cards sitting in the shuffler. I had to point it out, I thought it looked closer to 5.5 decks than 6. Supervisor didn’t see a problem with the constant red light. Once I point it out and they found the problem he immediately had the dealer cut two decks off and flat bet me, lol. Never let the casino supervisor know you’re sharper than them, should have just walked away and called gaming I guess.

here's a great quote from the story:

"In some cases, dealers used decks of cards that contained too many cards; too few cards; or in one poker tournament, 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐝𝐬 𝐬𝐨𝐫𝐭𝐞𝐝 𝐢𝐧 𝐬𝐞𝐪𝐮𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐢𝐚𝐥 𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐞𝐫 𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫 𝐭𝐡𝐚𝐧 𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐨𝐦𝐥𝐲 𝐬𝐡𝐮𝐟𝐟𝐥𝐞𝐝."



sound familiar?

FIRST INCIDENT

The 16 cards missing from the 6 BJ deck shoe were:

AD, 7D
7S, 8S, 10S, KS
AC, AC, 4C, 6C, QC
2H, 6H, 8H, 8H, AH

Apparently they got stuck in a shuffler and the dealers/pit bosses ignored the warning lights.

122 hands in total were dealt with the illegitimate deck

SECOND INCIDENT
1 card missing from 6 deck BJ shoe. The report does not indicate which card was missing.

60 hands dealt in total

Also apparently got stuck in the shuffler.

THIRD INCIDENT
A shufflmaster at a poker table was set to sort instead of shuffle.

16 hands of poker were dealt from the sorted shoe

FOURTH INCIDENT
One Mini-Bacc shoe was 4 cards short, and the other had 4 cards extra.

The report did not indicate which cards were out of place.

155 hands in total were dealt with the incorrect decks.

FIFTH INCIDENT
7 Hands of Poker were dealt with an 8C missing from the deck

SIXTH INCIDENT
17 hands of BJ dealt from a shoe with 1 missing card.

The report did not indicate which card was missing

SEVENTH INCIDENT
42 hands of blackhjack were dealt from two shoe's - one with an extra card and the other missing a card.

The report did not indicate which card had been swapped.

Quote: gamerfreak

A shufflemaster at a poker table was set to sort instead of shuffle.

16 hands of poker were dealt from the sorted shoe

Can someone explain what a "sort" is please?

I bet this suspension has been the most painful for zk. He is probably pounding at his keyboard as we speak wanting to type. Should give him a reprieve of 1 day, or add it to his next suspension since I would bet one gets created over this thread.

Quote: rsactuary

Can someone explain what a "sort" is please?

Shufflemasters have a sort mode that will scan/identify the cards electronically and sort the deck/shoe back to the order they would be when new from the factory

The cleverest part is that the lizard men from the moon investigated the case, found the problem and fined the casino so that we'd think they aren't all in on it.

The worst part is they only got fined $100k.

Quote: RS

The worst part is they only got fined $100k.

The worst part is they know who the players were but did not refund any money

One of the articles I read said they dealt several hands of Spanish 21 with the 10’s included. The paragraph ended with them saying no players complained about the dealt cards. I’m sure they didn’t!

Quote: Sandybestdog

One of the articles I read said they dealt several hands of Spanish 21 with the 10’s included. The paragraph ended with them saying no players complained about the dealt cards. I’m sure they didn’t!

One of them lost $150 on the bad shoe.

My rough gustimate is that Spanish 21 w/10's would be around a 1.6% player edge ... but it would be cool if someone did the math

Quote: gamerfreak

One of them lost $150 on the bad shoe.

My rough gustimate is that Spanish 21 w/10's would be around a 1.6% player edge ... but it would be cool if someone did the math

Your guess is close. 1.49% according to Ask the Wizard.

Quote:

What advantage (%) would a player have if the 10’s were used in a stand on all 17, 8-deck spanish 21 game?

Quote:

Keeping all the tens in the deck is worth 1.89% to the player. The house edge under those rules is normally 0.40%. So with all the tens in the shoe, the player edge would be 1.89%-0.40% = 1.49%.

Quote: blick

Can't paste the link here but the casino had been fined for short decks. Does this happen often?


philly/business/tourism_casinos/state-fines-sugarhouse-100k-dealing-short-decks-20181003

now we just need to figure out what sands beth is doing

Well, well, well... The truth is starting to come out nice and slowly. I can only imagine what Harrahs in Chester has been doing for the past 2 years, as well as Sands in Bethlehem. And guess what? It's happening right now in Vegas as well. Just go to Ballys, Planet Hollywood, Bellagio, Harrahs, and Caesars. Also so much for a casino losing their license like the Gaming Commission likes to say if they were using short shoes. Like I said, slap on the wrist each time. You wanna know why? Too much tax revenue lost for the state. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, huh? More corruption in this pathetic society. For only 100k, how many casinos out there are short shoeing the hell out of the blackjack games as we speak? 100k to a casino is like picking up a penny off the floor. Do the math. An extra 0.5% more than makes up for the 100k penalty in less than a week perhaps.

Also for those saying, this wasn't about cheating. How naive are you guys really? Quit giving the benefit of the doubt to everything you hear in the media. So much crap goes on behind closed doors with these corrupt billionaires. You actually think pit bosses and employees were just ignoring red lights or whatever they said in the story? Tell me the last time you saw someone ignore a red light on the ASM. You don't think the casino paid off the media to cover up the story in some fashion? Welcome to the real world. You actually think those were the exact cards missing? More like 10s, Aces, and 9s missing, but probably just the 10s and Aces because casinos are too stupid to realize the 9's also help the player. Massive cover-up story and it's happening right here in Vegas as we speak at several properties.

Let's also not forget what Ken Uston said many decades ago. There was a big casino in Vegas that he would not name that was using short shoes. Go figure.

Quote: ZenKinG

Well, well, well... The truth is starting to come out nice and slowly. I can only imagine what Harrahs in Chester has been doing for the past 2 years, as well as Sands in Bethlehem. And guess what? It's happening right now in Vegas as well. Just go to Ballys, Planet Hollywood, Bellagio, Harrahs, and Caesars. Also so much for a casino losing their license like the Gaming Commission likes to say if they were using short shoes. Like I said, slap on the wrist each time. You wanna know why? Too much tax revenue lost for the state. Don't bite the hand that feeds you, huh? More corruption in this pathetic society. For only 100k, how many casinos out there are short shoeing the hell out of the blackjack games as we speak? 100k to a casino is like picking up a penny off the floor. Do the math. An extra 0.5% more than makes up for the 100k penalty in less than a week perhaps.

Also for those saying, this wasn't about cheating. How naive are you guys really? Quit giving the benefit of the doubt to everything you hear in the media. So much crap goes on behind closed doors with these corrupt billionaires. You actually think pit bosses and employees were just ignoring red lights or whatever they said in the story? Tell me the last time you saw someone ignore a red light on the ASM. You don't think the casino paid off the media to cover up the story in some fashion? Welcome to the real world. You actually think those were the exact cards missing? More like 10s, Aces, and 9s missing, but probably just the 10s and Aces because casinos are too stupid to realize the 9's also help the player. Massive cover-up story and it's happening right here in Vegas as we speak at several properties.

Let's also not forget what Ken Uston said many decades ago. There was a big casino in Vegas that he would not name that was using short shoes. Go figure.

You heard it here first, months ago. Thanks ZK

I've never been so happy to have ZK back!

Quote: gamerfreak

FIRST INCIDENT

The 16 cards missing from the 6 BJ deck shoe were:

AD, 7D
7S, 8S, 10S, KS
AC, AC, 4C, 6C, QC
2H, 6H, 8H, 8H, AH

Apparently they got stuck in a shuffler and the dealers/pit bosses ignored the warning lights.

122 hands in total were dealt with the illegitimate deck

Assuming 6D,H17,DOA,DAS the House Edge of this game is normally 0.6154%, but with those 16 cards missing the house edge was 0.8499%. Note that 4 of the 16 cards were Aces!

Quote: gordonm888

Quote: gamerfreak

FIRST INCIDENT

The 16 cards missing from the 6 BJ deck shoe were:

AD, 7D
7S, 8S, 10S, KS
AC, AC, 4C, 6C, QC
2H, 6H, 8H, 8H, AH

Apparently they got stuck in a shuffler and the dealers/pit bosses ignored the warning lights.

122 hands in total were dealt with the illegitimate deck

Assuming 6D,H17,DOA,DAS the House Edge of this game is normally 0.6154%, but with those 16 cards missing the house edge was 0.8499%. Note that 4 of the 16 cards were Aces!

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most PA games are 0.43%. So they nearly doubled their house edge.

Given that the other incidents were fairly benign, or even in favor of the player, I am thinking this is more incompetence than malice.

But I believe the fine for offering an illegitimate table game should be much higher than 100K.

The fact that they didn’t offer the affected players a reimbursement is pathetic.

I mean we've all seen a dealer and pit boss opening a table and preparing the cards. Pretty routine process where they probably just overlooked something they've done a hundred times. Those shuffle machines take a lot of abuse and signal warning lights all the time. They just reset them and they usually work but maybe they didn't a couple of times. I don't suspect any foul play. I was at Chester, Sugarhouse and Parx yesterday. They were all packed. Nobody cares.

Quote: Sandybestdog

I mean we've all seen a dealer and pit boss opening a table and preparing the cards. Pretty routine process where they probably just overlooked something they've done a hundred times. Those shuffle machines take a lot of abuse and signal warning lights all the time. They just reset them and they usually work but maybe they didn't a couple of times. I don't suspect any foul play. I was at Chester, Sugarhouse and Parx yesterday. They were all packed. Nobody cares.

Most other businesses I would agree may simply be prone to mistakes but casinos are incredible micromanagers and sticklers for details

Any dealer not doing a proper shuffle or ignoring warnings would more likely be watched by surveillance to uncover a possible scam

Unless the casino was in on it to scam the players

I could see a casino believing it was a legit card counter anti-ap move and not cough twice

Quote: Sandybestdog

I mean we've all seen a dealer and pit boss opening a table and preparing the cards. Pretty routine process where they probably just overlooked something they've done a hundred times. Those shuffle machines take a lot of abuse and signal warning lights all the time. They just reset them and they usually work but maybe they didn't a couple of times. I don't suspect any foul play. I was at Chester, Sugarhouse and Parx yesterday. They were all packed. Nobody cares.

Nobody cares cause theyre all degnerates and drones. Less than 1% of the world even know how to utilize proper basic strategy, let alone the people who even know counting exists, let alone the ones who even know how to count proficiently, let alone the ones who understand risk and bankroll management, let alone the ones who can count proficiently, understand risk and bankroll management AND have the discipline to make money at it.

Now do you understand why it's still packed? We're living in a society full of robots. Artificial intelligence has been here all along. Just look around you for a change. Staring right at you. I cant do it all myself. If everyone was like me, preshuffled cards wouldnt exist and the need for ASMs. These 'errors' by the casino would never happen. You wanna know why? Because all of the cards would come in order and easily inspected before the table opens for EVERYONE to see. But because everyone is droned out of their minds, no one 'cares' ot even cares to question anything. No one 'cares' about anything unless it's getting drunk, kim kardadhians ass, music, entertainment, and bullshit celebrity gossip. Ask how many people in the casinos yesterday or anyone around you for that matter, "How many of them know and understand their Constitution." ZERO

Quote: ZenKinG

Nobody cares cause theyre all degnerates and drones. Less than 1% of the world even know how to utilize proper basic strategy, let alone the people who even know counting exists, let alone the ones who even know how to count proficiently, let alone the ones who understand risk and bankroll management, let alone the ones who can count proficiently, understand risk and bankroll management AND have the discipline to make money at it.

Isn't that true for most occupations? What percentage of the world population are able to earn a living as farmers, lawyers, surgeons, painters, or movie stars?

Quote: zinking

If everyone was like me . . .

It's obvious you know so clearly that they aren't like you and never will be. So the important question is, why are you letting this diversity cause you so many problems instead of using it to your benefit?

Quote: ZenKinG

Nobody cares cause theyre all degnerates and drones. Less than 1% of the world even know how to utilize proper basic strategy, let alone the people who even know counting exists, let alone the ones who even know how to count proficiently, let alone the ones who understand risk and bankroll management, let alone the ones who can count proficiently, understand risk and bankroll management AND have the discipline to make money at it.

Now do you understand why it's still packed? We're living in a society full of robots. Artificial intelligence has been here all along. Just look around you for a change. Staring right at you. I cant do it all myself. If everyone was like me, preshuffled cards wouldnt exist and the need for ASMs. These 'errors' by the casino would never happen. You wanna know why? Because all of the cards would come in order and easily inspected before the table opens for EVERYONE to see. But because everyone is droned out of their minds, no one 'cares' ot even cares to question anything. No one 'cares' about anything unless it's getting drunk, kim kardadhians ass, music, entertainment, and bullshit celebrity gossip. Ask how many people in the casinos yesterday or anyone around you for that matter, "How many of them know and understand their Constitution." ZERO

So I played at Parx, SH and Chester yesterday and actually made money. So am I a degenerate? Am I a drone?

Or is the guy who starts with 50K, “Exists” a year in crummy rentals and still has 50K?
The guy who asks how to deal with bedbugs, he is better than me?
The guy who can’t even double his bankroll in a year in Vegas?
The guys that knows more than everyone on here. Just ask him.

ZK, most of us on here made far more than you are worth in the Stock Market since you have been in Vegas on investment money alone in the last year.

But we are just tools in the system. Meanwhile I’ll keep making money in the crooked casinos like many do on here here while you tread water. Look at the bright side, at least you are not Kendry, where ever she may be. I do wish you well!

Damn it sucks to be the King sonetimes it does seem. The Bud Light guy has it much easier. Then again so does the Burger King. Do they still give those crowns out for free?

Quote: Boz

So I played at Parx, SH and Chester yesterday and actually made money. So am I a degenerate? Am I a drone?

Or is the guy who starts with 50K, “Exists” a year in crummy rentals and still has 50K?
The guy who asks how to deal with bedbugs, he is better than me?
The guy who can’t even double his bankroll in a year in Vegas?
The guys that knows more than everyone on here. Just ask him.

ZK, most of us on here made far more than you are worth in the Stock Market since you have been in Vegas on investment money alone in the last year.

But we are just tools in the system. Meanwhile I’ll keep making money in the crooked casinos like many do on here here while you tread water. Look at the bright side, at least you are not Kendry, where ever she may be. I do wish you well!

Damn it sucks to be the King sonetimes it does seem. The Bud Light guy has it much easier. Then again so does the Burger King. Do they still give those crowns out for free?

I dont care if you and whoever else make 5 million a year. You and everyone's uneducated economic, selfish, and impatient mindsets have destroyed this country. All I see are droned out 'satisfied' citizens doing anything they can for a dollar regardless if it's immoral and unethical, taking out massive loans for instant gratification, and not standing up for anything they believe in because they're happy and satisified where they're at so why fight city hall? Why fight govt. Why march on washington? You guys don't desrve to live in this country. Our founding fathers died for our freedom and economic prosperity that you guys are just throwing away like it's a piece of trash. You can make all the money in the world, but when you're 90 years old looking back at your life, just know that you contributed to the destruction of this country along with 99% of society. If that makes you happy, to each their own.

Just keep taking out loans, credit cards, and handouts. What makes me laugh is how people talk about AP'ing the credit cards and what not, but the funny thing is you're being raped on the back end through inflation. Everyone just cares about tomorrow and 'what's in it for them', but don't realize each day your dollar is becoming less and less valuable. Soon 5 million will be worth 500 dollars. All thanks to the mindset in place by every citizen in this country. 99.9% of people in this country dont truly understand how a economy truly grows or the value of a dollar. How can they, if they can just take out a 30 year 500k loan from a bank. The same bank that also got 'money' out of thin air.

Generations after us are completely fucked and it's not just because of these banks, government, and the federal reserve system, but by every single one of you contributing to it that keeps the system in place. If everyone was like me, you wouldn't need to make 5 million a year. You can still make 20k a year and buy a mansion within 5-10 years because inflation wouldnt exist. You work for what you want, every single dollar that you get. All loans and handouts would be abolished. If you want a house, you dont get a house until you can pay it off on the spot just like the good old days. This would naturally fix the economy and boost job growth like you've never seen before.

But of course, now it's too late. Only way to fix it now is to bite the bullet and start over and suffer for 50 years until it resets. Might as well start now cause all we're doing is prolonging the inevitable. All of you impatient droned out people fell for the government's trap of printing money out of thin air and thus the country has been destroyed even if you physically cant see it. This country is living in a massive illusion and eventually it will go bust just like in the 1920's, but this time it's going to be much more severe. You and everyone else's great great grandkids will unfortunately be suffering the consequences of all of your economic mistakes. All because none of you know how an economy works. On my tombstone, im just gonna write 'Sorry future generations, I had nothing to do with this, thank my fellow droned out citizens, banks, government, and droned out billion dollar businesses who didnt have the capital to get started who just end up filing for bankruptcy protection when it goes bust.'

Only way this country can be saved is if America becomes a dictatorship for 4 years and I become President so I can over rule Congress. Sure, the foreign bankers will try to kill me, but luckily im a step ahead of them unlike JFK. I will wear a hazmat suit with 3 shields of body armor, bulletproof glasses, and a helmet to protect me from any attempt by them to get rid of me at any of my Presidential speeches.

First and foremost, all handouts and loans like I said would be abolished for good. No one gets a dollar from the govt, not even big businesses. The Federal Reserve will also be removed. The Constitution gives the government the right to create it's own money INTEREST FREE, so why the hell do we have a private central bank printing money out of thin air and charging the goverbment interest? Nonetheless, the government will be restricted from printing any money ever again. All unconstitutional socialist programs like welfare, food stamps, social security will also be abolished. All imports will be banned from entering this country. No more taking advantage of slave children in Bangladesh to manufacture your clothes. Everything will be made in America (Goodbye WalMart).

Additionally, practicing law for profit will cease to exist and the lawyer trade will be eradicated. If you want to defend yourself, you do exactly like that, you defend YOURSELF. Apply your 6th amendment rights, be your own counsel, and learn to not be a drone and educate yourself on law and the Constitution or go to prison and suffer the consequences. No more corrupt lawyers with their own agendas. Any Supreme Court Justice or District Court judge not upholding the Constitution will get life behind bars. All military spending will cease to exist other than the bare minimum to protect our borders and no more money agenda based wars invading the rest of the world.

God i would fix this country in a heartbeat. I could write a book on how exactly how i would do everything.

Quote: ZenKinG

Generations after us are completely f**ked

Thank you for your eloquently put opinion. See you in 14 days.[edit]I'm reducing to 7 after someone put an appeal in. However, rule 6 is clear. No profanity. No f-word. Not even for articulating strength of feeling. If ZK does it on his next release, I'm inclined to be pretty harsh.
Please ZK. You know how to be eloquent without swearing. It's just a few letters to leave out, star out etc.

Thanks for nice thread, does this scheme really works?

Zen, you really need to be institutionalized. Perhaps not long term, but you do need to be evaluated. I think medication and therapy would do you wonders. Aside from your mental well being, the combination would probably increase your life span by decreasing the stress on your heart from what appears to be constant unbridled anger. Good Luck to your sir.

Zenking for President, obviously!

Quote: WatchMeWin

Zenking for President, obviously!

MAKE AMAERICA CASINO AGAIN!

Quote: heatmap

MAKE AMAERICA CASINO AGAIN!

'Ask not how your Casino can screw you, ask how you can screw your casino!'

anyone here work at the sugarhouse? I wonder what the employees are saying about the scandal.

They don’t give a shit. Don’t have to ask them. In the brief time I worked for casinos (bad idea, and bad economy time in LV) I learned that around 90% of casino employees (table games) care precisely about only four things.
1) tips
2) breaks
3) avoiding work
4) avoiding or passing off blame or responsibilities

Quote: mcallister3200

They don’t give a shit. Don’t have to ask them. In the brief time I worked for casinos (bad idea, and bad economy time in LV) I learned that around 90% of casino employees (table games) care precisely about only four things.
1) tips
2) breaks
3) avoiding work
4) avoiding or passing off blame or responsibilities

I think this is the case in most employment. I try my hardest to keep my 3 employees from feeling this way since I know that I have in the past.

Quote: gordonm888

Assuming 6D,H17,DOA,DAS the House Edge of this game is normally 0.6154%, but with those 16 cards missing the house edge was 0.8499%. Note that 4 of the 16 cards were Aces!

The truly sad thing is that even with the casino cheating like that, it still has a better house edge than almost every other game in the casino...!!

Also, *eyeroll* at ZK's rants.

It makes me believe that the guy who told me that they are fixing the dice game has some validity to it. They apparently have a group of people investigating it. Can't wait till they spell those beans.

If they can make machines that can short cards at lightning speed and disseminate which cards to pull out, Etc , I'm sure they could create dice with liquid magnets in it and sensors on the tables, Etc. I'm not saying I fully subscribe to that but I'm saying I don't think it is implausible.

Quote: WatchMeWin

It makes me believe that the guy who told me that they are fixing the dice game has some validity to it. They apparently have a group of people investigating it. Can't wait till they spell those beans.

If they can make machines that can short cards at lightning speed and disseminate which cards to pull out, Etc , I'm sure they could create dice with liquid magnets in it and sensors on the tables, Etc. I'm not saying I fully subscribe to that but I'm saying I don't think it is implausible.

you should look into an older company called H.C. Evans

they no longer exist, but you can see remnants of their company today, if you have ever seen the "capones restored rigged roulette wheel"

i have what i think is all of their catalogs, and in their catalog they sell what we might consider to be rigged or gaffed equipment, to allow casino operators a way to thwart high rollers.

the dice were exactly what you are thinking, they knew how to make plastic mixed with metals, and sold a magnet that could throw the dice in another direction.

they also sold gaffed dice as well as in if you hit them in a certain way, they would return to being fair, and this is accomplished by having a liquid in the middle of the dice that is offset by bubble of air (i think thats pretty close)

Quote: heatmap

you should look into an older company called H.C. Evans

they no longer exist, but you can see remnants of their company today, if you have ever seen the "capones restored rigged roulette wheel"

i have what i think is all of their catalogs, and in their catalog they sell what we might consider to be rigged or gaffed equipment, to allow casino operators a way to thwart high rollers.

the dice were exactly what you are thinking, they knew how to make plastic mixed with metals, and sold a magnet that could throw the dice in another direction.

they also sold gaffed dice as well as in if you hit them in a certain way, they would return to being fair, and this is accomplished by having a liquid in the middle of the dice that is offset by bubble of air (i think thats pretty close)

Thanks for the info. I'll take a look.

Quote: mcallister3200

They don’t give a shit. Don’t have to ask them. In the brief time I worked for casinos (bad idea, and bad economy time in LV) I learned that around 90% of casino employees (table games) care precisely about only four things.
1) tips
2) breaks
3) avoiding work
4) avoiding or passing off blame or responsibilities

No mention of what to eat for dinner? I think about that all the time

Quote: djatc

No mention of what to eat for dinner? I think about that all the time

Included in breaks #2. Employee dining room.

Uh oh. Is ZK firing back?

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/05/23/sugarhouse-lawsuit/

Quote: GWAE

Uh oh. Is ZK firing back?

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2019/05/23/sugarhouse-lawsuit/

I would have liked to play their Spanish 21 with the 10's not removed.