Posted by RaleighCraps
Aug 07, 2012

New favorite spot on craps table

For years I have always wanted to stand next to the base dealers on a craps table, and throw the dice into the front corner of the table, close to the mirror. Lately though, I am noticing I am getting more dice that are leaving the table. Not sure if it is due to different tables (not playing in Vegas now), or if the rubber bands in my arm are spazzing out. In any event, in an effort to keep the dice in play, and keep the table flowing, I have decided to play from either stick left (preferred) or stick right.
This spot makes for a nice easy toss right down the pass line, and it is close enough that I can miss any chip stacks that are on the pass or DP. And since it is close, I can also toss them lite enough to keep them in that front corner 90% of the time.

On my latest trip, I swear nearly every 7 out occurred when one of the dice got happy feet and ran into the back corner, and into the dealer's working stacks. I didn't 7 out every time a die got back there, but almost every one of my 7 outs happened back there. The one 7 out exception that I remember was when I landed a die on the only odds stack in the corner. Hit the stack one time, and it was a 7 out. :-( I do not believe in this, but c'mon.... LOL
It was also interesting this trip that I was not once admonished to make sure my dice hit the wall, even though there were a few throws where one die would fall just short. Most of the time both dice would just kiss the wall, but not always.

Of course, making me hit the back wall was pretty irrelevant anyway, since, per my request, the stick was sending me the dice with any 2 numbers on them, and I was not even looking at the dice. Just picking them up, nice little backflip, and into the corner. It is fun when there are only a couple of players on each side to watch the stick try to run over the base dealers by sending the dice back to the shooter as fast as possible


Ayecarumba Aug 07, 2012

Are you right handed? I think most right handed shooters prefer the position on the Stick's right so that they don't have to "backhand" the dice. However, to each his own...

RaleighCraps Aug 07, 2012

I am RH. I find it easier to flip the dice with a slight backhand, rather than trying to shovel them down the table.

I used to pitch fast pitch softball, and threw a riser that was a hard backhand flip motion. Maybe that is why I like it better? who knows

odiousgambit Aug 08, 2012

do you ever try dice control?

RaleighCraps Aug 08, 2012

I throw the 2-2 set, and the flying vee set (3-3) at times, but it is just for something different. I much prefer to keep the dice moving as fast as possible, especially if there are only a couple of us on the table.

I do believe that with A LOT of practice, I could make the dice hit the table nearly on the same face each time, but after they bounce and hit the wall, there is zero control involved, and thus there is no way to influence the dice on a casino craps table.

Posted by RaleighCraps
Aug 05, 2012

Hollywood WV and Hollywood PA this past Friday

I visited Hollywood in Charles Town, WV on Friday morning, 7:30 AM. I had heard they had high minimums there, but they were fine at that time of day. There was only one craps table open, a $10 table, at 2x odds. Only time I have played 2x odds was when I was floating in the Caribbean on a cruise ship. 3 card, 4 card, and BJ all had $10 tables. Only Pai Gow Poker had a $25 minimum, and from what I understand, that minimum is $50 as soon as prime time starts.
Five players were at the table, with a missing player with a nice supply of green chips in the rack. I take that as a good sign. Dice are being shot into my end, and the shooter has just made the point as I step up to the table. So I take out a single $100 bill, and ask for $10 Pass. This transaction is completed without interruption, and I am on the Pass for the shooter's next point of 8, which he makes for my $25 odds bet. The only FUN thing about a $25 table is trying to figure out how much to bet on the passline, so you can take advantage of the odds grace. Bet $10 and you can but odds of $25 on the 6/8. But, bet $15 on the PL, and you can bet $50 on the 6/8, effectively getting you 3x odds. And you can bet $40 odds on the 5/9, if you bet $15 PL.
Alas, they announce the table is closing for maintenance, and we need to move to the other side. The regulars are all grumbling about the other table, and sure enough, the other table is brutal. Nobody could make a point, nor could anyone repeat a number. But the come out roll 7/11 made DP expensive as well. I never got ahead, and had a steady bleed of my smallish buy-in. At 2x odds I decided I was not going to risk my BR here.

Bottom line. Charles Town is 5 hours from me, but in the future, I would continue to drive 2 more hours and play at Hollywood, PA, which is where we headed to at 9:00 AM

Got on the craps table in Hollywood, PA at 12:20PM. Took a spot one to the left of the stick. I used to always head to the spots next to the base dealers, but I like the shorter throw from next to the stick. Easier to make the dice stay in the front corner of the table, which is where I like them. I stepped up to the table, and 2 throws later, the shooter outs, and the dice pass to me. I buy in for $1k, and notice it is a $5 table. I open with a nice 5 points made roll, but I had 3 come bets with over $200 in odds get wiped out on a come out 7, and then later, lost 2 more come bets with odds to another come out 7. Lost $350 on those two 7s, so my profit for the 5 made points was not what it should have been. That also pretty much soured me on any more Come Betting. I am trying to convince myself to start playing the CB, and not place bet as much, and I know the math says to play that way, but I have so little luck that way..............
My buddy shows up about 2:30, and I'm around even. We both go down a couple of hundred, get even, and back down. Get a couple of shooters that make a couple of points, but can't get 2 in a row. These tables have a large number of horn bettors, and they just make the table SO CHOPPY! There is continual arguments over how the bet was placed, that;s not what I called, etc. They are basically forced to verify every bet, every time, with every shooter, and when there are 4 or 5 people playing it, it takes forever. Compounding the issue was 2 new break-in dealers. They were struggling with the payoffs on the horn bets, and even with the chip mechanics, like when you press an $18 place 6 to $30 (put 1 green, 1 white on the felt, take 1 $5 to the bank, put 1 $5 on the $25 chip to make the bet, and return the other $5 and the 4 $1 chips to the player).
Our side of the table was making a few points, but the right side of the table was really struggling, so we finally started $25 DC betting when the dice were coming our way. I would get 3 DC bets active, only laid odds on the 4 or 10. Lost 2 of my odds bets (ouch), but overall ended up even by the time the dice came back to our end of the table. My buddy finally had one of his patented rolls on the 4 or 10! He rolled the 4 and the 10 SIX times each! I buy $25, press to $50, press to $100, press to $150, press to $200, so I made some nice money on the 4. Alas, I was not on the 10 at all :-(
Went to supper at 5:30, up $50. Was able to get a $25 food voucher from the notoriously stingy comps (They rated me at $100 avg for 5 hours of play and that was all they would cough up). And the only reason I got that was because I said I would not be around the next day, and they expire the comps after 90 days or so. That plus no free alcohol = cheapskates.

My history here has been to have winning sessions before dinner, and then lose after dinner, so I was prepared to leave right after dinner. Our friends wanted to stay a bit longer, so I stuck $40 in about the only slot I will play, Texas Tea. I was getting NOTHING. Got down around $25 and decided to start max betting, 180 or 220, I don't recall which now. Anyway, I hit my last max bet, which left me $.86 and I got a $45 Dividend Check. WHOOT ! I said I would play back to my $40 buy-in. Yeah right! I also said I was leaving after dinner! I REALLY NEED TO LEARN SOME DISCIPLINE WHEN IT COMES TO CASINOS, as you will see. So, if you haven't figured out I don't stop at $40, you must be skim reading. I get down to $25 ,when I get 4 oil rigs. I only got 2 dividend checks bonuses and got the oil rig bonus 2x as well, but the 4th rig means I get an extra pick. I get the first and fourth best rigs, and make $70 on the bonus game. I play a couple more spins and cash out for $90. I find my wife and give her the ticket, and state I am headed back to craps.

They have 4 tables there, but I have only ever seen 2 of them open, and 1 of them I will never play on again (yeah right). One of the new tables has no one playing, so I figure it is a $25 table, but I like to play by myself (or at least on a table with little to no middle action). Keep the dice moving. I ask the stick to just bring the dice right back to me, don't bother to flip them, and I could care less what they send me. Anyway, the table is $10! Shocked me. I make $10 PL, full odds, and place $85 inside. Hit a few inside numbers, then make my point. Takes about 1 minute, and I am up $100. I get a new point, press my inside to $170 and add a $25 4 and 10.

And we are off to the races! I only made 2 points on this roll, but I beat the crap out of the place bets. When I outed, I had over $600 in bets on the table, and my rack was +700. Took about 5 minutes, and 2 others had joined during the roll. One on my end, one on the other. No middle bettors! I felt bad as I had not been betting for the dealers during my roll (so we could keep the dice moving). So when the dice move to the next guy, I bet $5 PL for dealers, and give them full odds. He hits 4 points, and the dealers pulled in a nice little $140. By now, I had jumped to $15 PL bets, so I was getting paid nicely. I counted +1700 after our 2 rolls, and once again, I lost about $600 when he outed. Total time on table at this point? About 20 minutes. Man I LOVE a fast rolling table! This would be a great story, IF I HAD LEFT THEN, or even, IF I HAD POCKETED all but $500. I REALLY NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PROTECT MY WINNINGS. I lost back about 1g, and then joined my friend at Pai Gow Poker, a game that has not been kind to me. I played $20 or $40 a hand for 30 minutes with them, and ended up $90, first Pai Gow win there for me. Back to craps table where I played for another 1.5 hours, but ended up giving them back almost all of the 1,700. A lot of that though was in the last two rolls. I had been shooting pretty well, so I went heavy on my last roll. $25 PL bet and $220 across. One pay and Out :-( The next shooter was the guy that had been shooting good too, so I played $15 PL with him and $160 inside, but he too had a short roll. I ended up positive on the craps table, but since I gave my wife more than I won for slots, Hollywood still came out slightly ahead on us this time.

Next craps will probably be Beau Rivage in Nov

Final note. I have been looking at a long shot home run play of Buy the 4 for $500. (4s and 10s hit a lot in this casino). On one of my rolls, I threw 3-1 three straight rolls! Oh to have been playing my long shot then. Anyway, Buy the 4 for $500, on first hit, press to $1K, take the 2k on hit number 2, and then on hit number 3 take the 2k and take the bet down. $4,875 won. I didn't keep track of all of the shooters, but I was tracking the number of times I would have won the bet if I had played it, and there were 12 times that the shooter rolled at least 3 fours before they went 7 out. I want to play this on a vig after win table though. No sense giving the house the extra $25 and $50 vig if the bet losses.


odiousgambit Aug 07, 2012

Funny how at Charles Town things seem to be improving, yet the conclusion always seems to be: "ain't going back"

Wonder if they can measure how much Maryland Live is hurting them. In slots I bet they can.

RaleighCraps Aug 07, 2012

It may be completely unfair, but the vibe I got was 'totally sweat the money' joint.

Pai Gow Poker table minimum at $25 when every other game is $10/$15. I have heard from numerous people that Pai Gow Poker is $50 minimum otherwise.

2x odds on the craps game is terrible.

I did not see a waitress, but I only played craps for one hour at 7:30AM, so I won't knock them on that.

My wife reported that the slots were all mixed, penny slot next to nickel slot, etc. She had to be careful when moving to the next seat, as it may be another denomination. Wonder if that is intentional?

I would give them another try if they fix their craps game, and create reasonable Pai Gow Poker minimums.

toastcmu Aug 08, 2012

I can vouch that Pai Gow rarely stays at $25. Plus the last time I played there I played for 90 minutes, tied 4 hands, and won 1. I have never had a waitress when at the tables (and I play during the week). I would do the 2x craps if it was $5, but most of my play there is strictly poker.


Posted by RaleighCraps
Apr 28, 2012

Hollywood Casino, PA 3 day event

So I decided to take a mini 3 day break to stay with my buddy and his family. We worked during the day and headed to Hollywood each night. Had the same theme all 3 nights. Up some after the first shooter, still up just a bit when we would break for supper, and then lose after supper. First night I shot so so. First 3 or 4 rolls was not great, but then I had a couple of 3 point rolls. Tuesday night was a good night for me. It started off with one of the strangest rolls I have thrown. 7,11,2,8,2,12,3,11, 7out. The dealers were making a lot of noise about how I had just hit for the craps cycle, all 4 numbers in a row. Of course, no one was playing the horn, and I never do, so those rolls were just pathetic to me. But I turned to my buddy and said that was bad, but I am feeling it tonight.

Next roll I made 4 points and hit at least 12 or more box numbers. The 10 was especially good to me on this roll. I started at 10, bought it for 25 on hit 1, pressed to 50 on hit 2, pressed to 75 on hit 3, pressed to 100 on hit 4, and then hit it once again for 200. The 4 I had up to 75. For the night, I had NO PSO rolls. I only had one roll where I did not make one point, and most of the rolls were 2 or 3 points, with a few box numbers. If anyone else on the tables had been helping at all, it would have been a profitable night.

Since we couldn't get anything going back to back, the DP and DC became an option. One guy on the table was playing 300 DP, with a 20 YO cover, and then he would bet a 300 DC with 20 YO cover 2x. If anything got knocked down, he would put another one up, so always trying to have 3 bets in play for the 7out, and a 900 pay. Man did he have some wild BR swings. I decided to try it, but at a 30 level, and with no YO cover. Smart play by the math, but bad play by the dice. I lost so many DP and DC bets to Yo's it wasn't even close to being right. At one point, all 7 players were playing the DP. At one point, the shooter rolls a couple of numbers, then 7 out, and one of the guys yells, "Hey shooter, you SUCK. Way to go, dude." It was pretty funny.

On day 2 when I was up before dinner, I decided to try and preserve my winnings by playing Pai Gow Poker. First hand pair of 7s with nada up top. LOSE. Next hand pair of 4s, nada up top. LOSE. Third hand, pair of 3s, QJ up top, which beat the dealer's Q9 top. PUSH. After that it was just one Pai Gow after another. I quit about 10 minutes later after I played 2 hands, AND BOTH of them Pai Gow'd. Gimme a freakin break already. I had trips a couple of times, and both times the dealer had a Pai Gow. I'm seeing a lot less Pai Gow in my future. The cards seem to hate me too often.

Had fun, rolled the bones pretty well, and was definitely ahead on my rolls. Would have finished the 3 days ahead, but in the last hour I tried to strike it big by betting 15 PL with full odds, and then betting 150 across. I did not have a good roll, and then the next shooter I did it with went PSO, so I lost 400 in 15 minutes, which proved to be the end result.


odiousgambit Apr 29, 2012

'had fun' works for me, wish I was there

Posted by RaleighCraps
Apr 18, 2012

Random craps musings

I make an occasional come bet, maybe 2 or 3 times on one lap of the dice around the table. About a year ago, I decided to work my come bet odds after a made point. I was seeing so many of my Come bets get hit on the next roll. This worked out pretty good for me for the first couple of trips, but the past 4 trips have been pure torture. In the Mohegan Sun trip on 4/12, I had come bets working 5 times. The first 3 times I lost to a 7, the 4th was a no event, and the 5th was again a come out 7. Off the top of my head, I think I have lost to 7s about 15 out of the last 20 Come out rolls. Talk about mean streaks!

Saw another new thing. Around 4:30 AM the dealers brought out a huge clear plastic bag full of chips (toke money). They dumped it on an empty craps table and 5 dealers spent the next 20 minutes sorting out the chips. I would love to know how much they counted up............

Played a few $5 hardways bets. Hit three of them, parlayed each one, never got paid on the parlay. Next time I would take the win, but I KNOW it is CERTAIN FACT that will be the time the hardway comes right back. Now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place...............Would I like to kick my ass now, or later?

Toked the dealers by placing $6 across, player control. Box let them pay the 5/9 $2 on the first win, so $1 was pressed, and then they paid $3 for the $2 bet. Pressed each bet by $1 when they hit. 4 and 10 was quite lively, so dealers seemed to be enjoying the bet..............


rudeboy99 Apr 20, 2012

If the dealers were tallying up the chips at the Mohegan Sun I would presume that they're on a 24 hour split. I'm sure it was a substantial amount, but you've gotta take into consideration the ungodly number of dealers, vacation tokes, etc. Using the strategy of working your Come bet odds after a pass is generally correct odds-wise (depending on how many and which #'s are involved), but you'll get bit regularly with the come-out 7...you can't have it both ways. I love your method of toking, (I'm a Nevada dice dealer), the player control allows you and the "boys" to have some fun, make a few $, while circumventing the protocol of most major casinos that insist the crew takes down every winning toke bet. It sounds like you've just run into a bad bit of luck on the working Come bets...keep track and you'll be able to tell if it's profitable or not in the long haul. Best of luck.

RaleighCraps Apr 20, 2012

When I first started working the odds, it was hugely in my favor. I was constantly getting my Come number rolled, making me look like a genius. It was probably running 75% in my favor, and the other 25% of the time it was usually a push (not my number, but not a 7). Now the unbalance is running the other way. Stupid streaks. :-)

Ayecarumba Apr 20, 2012

Instead of full pressure on your hardway parlays, put them up for half the winnings. At least you'd show a modest win, and get to play with "house" money.

Posted by RaleighCraps
Apr 18, 2012

Mohegan Sun PA trip on 4/12

Okay, I am not willing to say I have a problem, but I will admit to being quite irrational when it comes to playing craps.

I had a two day business trip to upstate NY, and it worked best if I flew into JFK. This left me with work over on Wed. night, and a 1:00 PM flight out of JFK on Thurs.
I was faced with a 3.5 hr drive to JFK from the work location, OR, I could drive to Mohegan Sun, and then have 2.5 hrs from there! This is a no brainer :-)
So, I call it an early night on Wed., in bed by 9:30, up at 12:15 AM, checkout, and drive to Mohegan Sun, pulling in at 02:15 AM. Play craps until 8:15AM, drive to JFK, grab some lunch, board the plane, fall asleep before cabin door is closed, and sleep until plane lands 1:40 later. You call it crazy, I call it Time Optimization.

Craps table had 6 or 7 people on it for first 2 hours, but only 5 of us were throwing the dice. Two right side bettors would not touch the dice. For the first 2 hours I would have been better off not touching the dice as well. I made 1 point on each of my first two rolls, but then I went PSO, three straight times. I noticed the 2 old guys at the other end of the table grumbling about my lack of dice prowess after the third time, and then the one guy says, "you would think he would know enough to not shoot and just pass the dice." He was betting $10/15 PL with max odds. On occasion I have passed the dice, but when no one is throwing any numbers, I'm going to throw. So when the dice come around, I grab them again. This time, I manage 2 inside numbers before I SO. This causes the 1 guy to beat himself up for being so stupid as to bet on my roll once again. In a great huff, he announces he cannot play under these conditions, colors up, and heads off to the BJ table nearby.

I'm down about 350 of my 500 buy in, and over the next hour get up to even once but play most of the time in the negative. We have a couple of decent rolls, where I get I decent amount on the table, but then just can't get that one or two extra hits that would make it a very profitable roll. It was a $5, 3-4-5x, table, and I was betting $5 with max odds, and then mostly betting $16/17 inside with an occasional $32/34 inside. Lots of points of 4 and 10. In fact, my best haul of the night was when my dealer, Mary Beth, suggested that 4s had been hot, so I bought the 4 for a quarter, vig up front :-(. The 4 hit, I pressed it to 50, and it hit 3 more times. Sweet

Then a guy enters the game to my direct left. Nice guy, but let's just say he had gotten his money's worth of free drinks. He had just come from Roulette where he said he played a $5 13 for two spins, and it hit on the second try. With luck like that I decided to bet PL $10 on his roll, and it paid off! He made 3 points on first pass, 4 points on the next pass, and at least 2 points the next couple of times. Perhaps he pulled me out of my funk, as I managed to start making numbers too, FINALLY! Unfortunately the shooters in between were costing me what I was getting back on our 2 passes. At this point, my friend from the other end of the table buys back into the game, just as the dice come to me. I grab the dice and I hear him say to the other guy, "He's still here and still throwing?" I throw 4 or 5 numbers and make my point. He looks at me with a wry smile and says "Finally". I laugh and say, "My last roll was 3 points and quite a few numbers". This starts some good mojo and we have a good lap around the table. I make $900 or so, which puts me +400 for the night. I lose off 200 of that and decide to give Pai Gow Tiles a go.

In Feb., I spent a week learning tiles, but was not able to find a game in Biloxi, so I never got to play it. Since then, I have not looked at the game at all. No one was playing, so I decided to give it a try. I told the dealer I had done a crash course in tiles, but I really couldn't remember much, including the strength of the tiles. I was hoping it would come back to me after I played a few hands. Unfortunately, it never did. I couldn't even remember the order I was looking at the hands, and even worse, I couldn't figure out if I had won or lost the hand. I was banking every other hand, but needing the dealer to set almost every hand. I did set a few correctly, but mostly I was lost. I lost 100 in about 20 minutes time, and gave up, thoroughly disgusted with myself for not having been able to study the game again before I got there. A little better planning will make for a much better next time.

It is now 7:00AM, too early to leave for airport, so I head back to craps table for an hour of play. Table is empty. I play solo for 15 minutes, and then another guy joins me, but he can't shoot due to arm damage. Normally I love shooting on a table by myself, but I could never get in that zone where you just know you are going to make numbers. I play until 8:15AM, ending up -240.

Being up 400 on a 500 buy in was a good result. It would have made a nice walking away point, IF I had been staying near by. But this trip had me staying at the casino until a certain time, so leaving when I was up was not really an option. Not a very good strategy I guess.


toastcmu Apr 18, 2012

Sorry to hear the Tiles experience didn't work out. Keep at it - I found that once you figure out the ranks, then things get slightly easier..

RaleighCraps Apr 18, 2012

I had it all down cold in Feb., but it was a crash course and not burned into my memory core. I was most frustrated with my inability to recall the tile strength. There will be another time, and I WILL be better prepared next time. This business trip was a last minute thing, no time to plan anytihng.

DrJohn Apr 19, 2012

Raleigh Craps, what part of Raleigh do you live in? I'm over by Rex and fancy myself an expert in tiles if you ever need a quick lesson.

TIMSPEED Apr 19, 2012

Damn man, you're more of a diehard craps player than even me! Of course, in Reno during those hours ALL the tables in town would be DEAD and I HATE playing solo...at least you didn't give them the entire $500...

RaleighCraps Apr 19, 2012

DrJohn, I am near Lake Lynn in nw Raleigh, just a couple of miles from Rexx. If you have a set of tiles, it might be fun to get together and play. I have a couple of other friends who want to learn the game too. PM me.

TS, I am learning my style of play is destined for more losing than winning sessions. I just like to play, and play for LONG periods. This is not in my favor. If I had easy access to a casino, then perhaps I would be able to set a win stop and if I hit it even 15 minutes in, I could walk, knowing I would be back next week, or next day, whatever the case. How it works for me now is play until I run out of money for that day, or it is time to leave

TIMSPEED Apr 19, 2012

LOL, I'm only three hours away and I usually go with the same strategy, hahaha.

Dealers usually will ask me "What's your goal?!?"..I just like to PLAY...

winmonkeyspit3 May 18, 2012

Should you ever find yourself in Upstate NY for work again, let me suggest Turning Stone Casino. I've been shooting great my last few trips, would love to play with you.