Posted by RaleighCraps
Jan 15, 2013

Vegas - 12/30 to 01/02/2013

Normally I would have blogged my casino trip much earlier, but I caught the stupid flu on the flight back, and have not felt much like typing a blog.
The good news is, I have forgotten a lot of what happened, so this will probably be the Reader's Digest version.

We left Sunday east coast time of 3:00 PM. The flight is usually 5.5 hours, but a 170 (not sure if it was Knot or MPH) headwind caused the flight to be over 6 hours. That is A LONG time cramped in a plane. Love Vegas, Hate the flight. I had been trying to make plans to meet up with teddys and superrick each sometime during this trip, and teddys got to me first with an offer to play good craps at Main Street Station. My wife and I were travelling on our typical junket, so we had a shuttle ride to Paris, and express check-in via the Diamond check-in. As soon as the shuttle hit Paris, my wife stayed behind to collect our luggage, and I made a bee line to check in, since teddy and friends were waiting on us at The Palms.
Check in was a snap, and my wife was walking up with our luggage as I exited the lobby. We were on the 8th floor, right off the elevator. Another nice room at Paris, yet again. Quick taxi ride to the Palms, meet up with teddy, and off to Main Street Station. My wife was quite taken with teddy and friends. :-) A very nice group of guys.
Bought in for $1K. The first 4 or 5 shooters did little, but I had a nice 25 minute roll out of the gate. I was up $1300. I was doing my typical betting across, while the others were doing all Come bets. I thought this was interesting, given the hot debates on these two betting styles. Tonight, my across betting was the winner. I outlasted the Come bettors, and booked a small ($125 or so) win, while the others finished down. I think this was primarily caused by a couple of Come out 7s that I threw during my roll, where I knocked down a lot of Come bets with Odds working. I really felt bad about that, but at least it's not like I was trying to throw a 7.
I like MSS, and will make it a point to go back down there to play. And since it is Boyd, it goes with my IP Casino play at Biloxi. My wife played the slots, and said there was a good selection she would like to go through, so a winner all the way around.

I was hearing bad things about gambling limits in Vegas for NYE, so I was already planning that 12/31 during the day would be my time to play, before the table mins got crazy and all the idiots hit the tables. I ended up playing craps at $15, and Pai Gow Poker at $25, which I did not consider to be too bad. Alas, Paris was not kind to me, and my wife was getting sadder by the minute as the slots were not giving her ANYTHING. I went to bed around 1 AM Vegas time, down $600 or so for the trip. We played through the early day at Paris and Bally's but the day ended with me down about $1800. Get a good roll, and then have losers for 30 minutes. Rinse and Repeat. Finally tired of the craps grind so got my wife and we headed to Pai Gow Poker. I bought in for $600, and decided to play $100 a hand, to see how long I could last. I played for about 3 hours, getting as low as $100. Cashed out $300 ahead! Paris put on a nice Kobe Ribeye steak with Lobster salad NYE party for us with champagne and a few Jacks and Coke for me. At 11:00 PM we decided to head outside for the fireworks.
It was 37* outside. I came from the mountains in PA, but 37* in the desert is COLD. Not mind numbing cold, but get your attention cold. The show was great, and so were the fireworks (insert rim shot here). Three cheers to the inventors of the micro mini and the LBD, and to the young thangs brave enough to wear them! I then proved how old I was by going in and heading to bed. Something at the dinner had not agreed with me, so I was not totally being an old duddy.
About 7:00 AM I ventured down to the craps table to see what was available. I got on a table that was okay. It was good, but some slower bettors jumped in, and ruined the flow of the table. As the morning dice setters started to show up, we all jumped to a new table. Unfortunately that table was taking forever to get going, and I noticed a friend I had just met (we both were playing the same very aggressive press across style) jumped to another table by himself. So I decided to cast my lot with him, and left the dice setter table. There were 3 of us playing, and we all were having okay rolls. Nothing great, but no PSO rolls. My Canadian friend and I decide we are going to do a max press to try and hit the table maximum of $5000.
6/8 bets were going to be $30, 60, 90, 150, 300, 600, 900, 1800, 3000, 4800.

He went on a very good roll, and we got the 6 up to $900, and the 9 was up to 500 or 600. When he finally went out, I had just under 2Gs on the table, but I had enough in my rack to put me plus $200 or so for the trip. I quit shortly after with a nice $2200 or so win, positive for the trip. My wife and I then made an ill fated decision to walk down the strip and see a few other casinos. I started off by stopping in Ballys, and immediately losing $1000. It was the epitome of the dangers of Across betting on a table with a box of carbon dioxide under it. I should have sued them for not providing a parka to the craps suckers that bought in. With that beating fresh in my mind, we headed down to Mirage to log a little M-Life time. Found a $15 table with 2 other players which is the way I like them. Alas, someone at the table was bad luck (ME), and once again we could not make anything happen. I was up for a little bit, but ended up dropping $500 or so. By now we are hungry, but just wanting something lite. We ended up at TI, and ate at Senor Frogs. Surprisingly, that was a good meal. I decided to give the TI craps game a try. Let's just say not all strip games are equal. That game was a dive joint. Some of the dealers were nice, some were asses. I won't ever go back. Again, I played for quite a while, but once again, could not get ahead and ended up dropping another few hundred.
By now it is getting to be 4:00 PM and the temp is starting to drop. We need to get back to Paris. On the walk back, 5 Vegas Police cars are making a frenzied trip down the strip. It did not seem to be the normal get out of my way. It was more like GET THE F... OUT OF MY WAY NOW . At one red light with the cop stuck behind the first car in line, the green light traffic came to a halt, and the front car then drove through the red light, with the cop right on his ass, and a second police car right behind. Very odd.
We ended up stopping in Flamingo, and I decided to give craps a try there. Very friendly crew, and a table with one other player. While in there, the pit was talking about a dozen cops that had just come running through the casino WITH SHOTGUNS! I never did hear anything more on this story, so I have no idea what it was all about. And continuing with the theme, I was able to play for a while, but could not get anything going, and gave up the remaining 300 I had left. I woke up that morning 1800 in the hole, was back to positive, in the morning, and then managed to piss away 2000 on the strip. Played craps that night, until 2 AM, but just could not get anything going. I was able to finally get a table by myself, where I proceeded to make 6 straight points, and got a few chips in my rail, but as soon as people saw I was winning, they would come running to the table and screw it up. A military guy and his wife/gf were playing on the opposite end of the table from me, and he was playing DP. I was killing him with come out 7/11s. I would yell down to him that he should teach her the RIGHT way to play, and he would reply he was trying to teach her to WIN. He would never shoot, but when it was just he and I, I would just kill him. Finally, he decided to shoot, so I joined him on the DP. He set a 4, so I decided to lay small odds. I also made a $25 DC bet. Of course, he rolls the 4. This wipes him out. As he is leaving I say, "Sorry about that man. I hated killing you like that." He came over, shook my hand, as said, "It's all good. It could have just as easily gone the other way."

Since he left after making a point, the dice come to me to finish his roll. I pick them up, and throw a winner 7. The base dealer, the stick, and I all realize at the same time, that we just made a big mistake. I have a $25 DC bet on the 5, but I have NO Pass line bet, nor do I have a Don't Pass bet. This means that the throw could be disallowed. There was no box on the game. I think they were thinking they would just pay me the $25 DC bet, but I wanted to do it right, so they called the Pit over. I explained how the previous roller had shot from the Don't and when he left the dice passed to me, but none of noticed that I had not put a Pass Line bet out. She says, "Well you need a Pass Line bet, as you know, so put one out there." I make my $10 bet. She then says to the stick, "What was the roll." the stick replies, "7 Winner." the floor then addresses the dealer, and says, "Pay the Pass Line, and then pay the DC." She then gives me a wink and says, "Does that take care of everything? Are you good to go now?" I replied, "Well as soon as I get this $5 dealer bet down, we will be good to go." Unfortunately, even this karma was not enough to change my fortune, and I go to bed down 3 gs for the trip.
I have plans to possibly meet supperick on Wed morning. He is supposed to call at 7:00 AM, and it is past 2 when I head to bed. I put the phone on charge and head to bed. Fortunately an upset stomach gets me up at 6:30, since it turns out while I did charge the phone, I forgot to take the phone off vibrate. Rick calls and I make arrangements to meet him outside Ballys for a trip to casinos off strip. We leave for the airport at 1:30 PM, so the clock is constantly on my mind. Rick likes an empty table as well, so we head to Sam's Town.
One table, and it has 6 or so players, so we head to Boulder Station. We get an empty table, and start playing. I am down to my last 1,000, so I buy in for $500. STUPID MOVE. Buying in low just means I play with scared money for longer. Rick was tracking all the rolls, and I rolled 5 sixes on my first roll. I should have made good money on that roll, but I didn't, since I was playing scared. My 2nd and 3rd rolls weren't much, but then I had a 17 throw roll (4 fours, 4 nines, 3 sixes) It was a roll I should have made $1000 on. I made some, but not what I should have. Ended up losing money at Boulder. We then tried Sunset Station where the table was full, so we left to try Green Valley. I really liked GVR. I stopped at the ATM to get a bit more buy in, but it was not to be. The tables there are VERY bouncy. I had to really alter my throw to keep the dice on the table, but I just did not have any luck going my way. We played for a while, with time getting shorter for me. With time about out, and nothing good happening, I consulted with Rick and decided that this shooter was throwing a lot of field repeaters. So I make a few field bets, double my remaining money, cash out, and head back to Paris, bankroll utterly decimated.
I would like to thank teddys and supperrick for their hospitality to my wife and I while we were in vegas. This was our 14th trip I think, and we both enjoyed it greatly. I really want to get my wife out to GVR for a couple of days.

I get back to Paris, where my wife has already checked us out, and has the bags with the travel agent. I find her at the slot, and we decide to go hit my Texas Tea slot, which has been very good to me again on this trip. This is when she notices she left her leather jacket at the previous slot, by the front door. Panicked she heads back there, and of course, it is not there. The final straw. Losing money stinks, but it expected. Losing a new jacket is not expected, and is very upsetting. I stop a waitress and ask her what happens if a jacket is left at a slot. She replied that if cleaning notices it, they will take it to lost and found. I got there, but they are out for 30 minutes. I notice a security guard so I take a chance and try to ask him if security would look at tape so we would know if the jacket walked out the front door and we could stop looking for it. He replies that security will not discuss what they can or can't see. I laughed and replied I wasn't asking for a discussion, as he and I both know they can see slots at the front door. I then mention the leather jacket, and he says, "Hey, I think they have that in lost and found. there was radio traffic about that jacket in the last 15 minutes." He calls lost and found, and sure enough, they have the jacket. That cheered the MRS back up a bit.

Long flight home. We get in early (tailwind), and are home by 11:30 PM, but then the flu gets me two days later. I have booked my Beau Rivage trip for March, along with another round at their Fallen Oak casino course. The Gulf Coast Champion's Tour event is there a couple of weeks later, so I am expecting the course to be in fabulous condition, and probably very tough.


ahiromu Jan 16, 2013

Loved the trip report... especially with the way the Pit responded to your situation at the craps table. I wish more supervisors responded to problems that way.

I went back home to Seattle from DC over x-mas so I know how that flight can be. I caught that stomach bug going around and started feeling it about halfway through the flight (and was sick as a dog for the next 24 hours)... feeling nauseous for three hours on a plane makes it much worse.

odiousgambit Jan 17, 2013

>the Reader's Digest version.

good thing, the full version evidently would have made my computer crash loading it [jk]

>the pit was talking about a dozen cops that had just come running through the casino WITH SHOTGUNS

still nothing in the news about this?

good post! a lot of craps sessions, I am envious. In fact I'm pretty sure I 'couldn't hang' with you guys, you'd wear me out.

RaleighCraps Jan 17, 2013

Perhaps the locals can comment, but what I have been told is a lot of what happens on the strip never makes the news. Which I think is pretty normal for every place that counts heavily on tourist traffic.

If my bankroll could survive, I could easily shoot craps for 16 hours straight. It is my curse, since there are many times where I get up during a session, but much fewer times where I can end a session a big winner.

superrick Jan 27, 2013


RaleighCraps turned out to be a really nice guy, when he PM me I didnít have any idea what I would be in for, I knew that he was not a DI, but that didnít bother me as I often write that before there were DIís there were only random rollers or what others called rhythm rollers. After a conversation with RaleighCraps, it was decided that I would pick him up on the strip and we would hit a few of the local casinos, early in the morning. As it turned out this was not the time that I would normally play, because I had been out meteorite hunting, the day before and needed to get some sleep and to add to my lack of sleep I had to stay up to ring in the New Year with my wife, oh the price of having fun when you get older!

I read a lot of the stuff that RaleighCraps had written and had a good feeling about him even before I met him; I think he has a unique perspective on the game of craps! When we hit the tables I found a very confident rhythm shooter. When he first started shooting he wasnít setting the dice just picking them up and shooting, it reminded me of some of my old shooting buddies that were all locals, they never set the dice! Now that was before they started writing about anybody being a so-called DI.

Back then everybody was just a shooter, you bet on some guys and some of them you wouldnít bet on! Players taught themselves who to bet on. I track everybody on the table and by doing so; can see things that are happening on the table. RaleighCraps took my advice, when I told him to bet the field on one of the shooters, that Iíve seen before throwing field numbers, every time Iíve seen this shooter shoot! GVR isnít a casino that I hit to often but this guy stuck out the last time I saw him shooting and he was just what everybody calls a random shooter. If it wasnít for the fact that I had to get RaleighCraps back to the strip so he could catch his plane, I think that he would have been made whole at GVR, and walked with a profit.

The incident with all the cops did make the news but there is a lot of stuff that never make it into the news here in Vegas or any other tourist destination around the world.

If I remember correctly it had something to do with a shooting that was in Vegas away from the strip, and the cops got a tip, that they could find the guy that did the shooting in one of the strip casinos.

I would be glad to pick up RaleighCraps the next time he and his wife comes into Vegas, maybe the next time when he does come in, we could plan it out better, I wouldnít have been even playing because of the large crowds that were in town for the New Years, I hate playing on crowded tables!

When you guys are reading anything that RaleighCraps writes, you should be able to take it to the bank; the guy does know what he is doing. I think that I might have change his way of thinking a little, on what time of the day to play and tracking the tables.

Posted by RaleighCraps
Dec 05, 2012

Beau Rivage 11/30 - 12/3 trip

New Resolution - Use my smartphone to keep track of my sessions, so I have an ACCURATE accounting.

Here is the Cliff's note edition for short attention spans:
Arrived Beau Rivage 11:00PM. Played craps until 9:30 AM. Down about 1800, then great comeback to finish plus 1600. Meet friend for breakfast. Travel to IP casino. Win $66 slots, $100 on Pai Gow poker. No craps. Back to Beau Rivage. Win $100 at Pai Gow poker. Play craps for 3 hours, up $200. Dinner at BR Prime. Play craps until 9:30 PM. Can't think straight, been awake for 40 hours, so tired. Up $1800 more. Go to bed at 10:00PM, positive almost $4k.
Sunday go to Harrah's Grand and Palace casino. $200 in $1 Texas Tea slot, plus $80 in slot freeplay. Cash out for $166 (-$34). Lose 500 on craps. Lose 200 on Pai Gow. Now HATE GRAND. Move to Palace. First time there. Non smoking casino, nice, but craps dealers are rude. Sweat the money. Admonish shooter EVERY time any dice does not touch back wall. Up at the start but table turns cold, lose 500. -1400 for this side trip. Back to Beau, still up 2400 for trip (feeding wife 500 for slots along way, so math is off). Play craps from 9:30 PM to 4:30 AM. At one point, am back to up around 4-5k for trip, but two bets of $1000 across get wiped, and bad timing on other bets results in loss. Now at plus 1100. 3 hours sleep, then back on table. Range from $400 up to $800 down. Finish trip plus $860. Gave wife $700 for slots, so really a $1500 craps win, racked up $450 in comps, good trip. I Continue to win craps sessions at Beau, and lose at every other casino in Biloxi. I must quit playing at Grand. I have already vowed to never play craps at IP, and so far, I have been in there 10x and I have not even looked at a craps table.
Unhappy that I did not bank more of the +4k, but I had a plan going in to play the big bet strategy if I got up 4k. I stuck to my plan. I was unlucky with my big bet timing. It happens, and I can live with that. Next time I will get the positive variance, and book a 10k win.

Interesting Highlights
It was a weird trip for me as a shooter. I played a lot by myself, or with only a couple of people, so I had a large number of first rolls as a new shooter. Only 10 or so were PSO. But many of my rolls were short. I would make 2 quick points, and out. Or I would throw 5 box numbers, but make no point. Had a few 4 point rolls, but again, not many box numbers in between made points. I kept saying I had a big roll coming, and I was right.
I hit my monster roll Sunday night, about midnight, with my wife watching (her first time seeing me get on a hot roll).
I had moved back to my old position next to base dealer, and was doing my old favorite sweeping motion with the dice. My buddy was on my right, making $5 PL bets for dealers, and I would add $5 shoes. As I started hitting points I was soon adding $10, $20, $40 for shoes. I made 8 or 9 points in a 30 minute roll. Ironically, the table next to us also went on a monster roll at the same time(2 shooters had the dice for 1:15). I had my 10 pressed to $400 when I finally 7'd out.

There was a Don't player at the other end of the table, betting 100, 200, 400, 800, and taking odds at times. I had hit him pretty hard early in the roll, and he decided he was getting his money back, so he took out a $5k marker, all on DP. I made the point. He took another 5k marker, down on DP, and I rolled a natural. He takes another 5k marker, lays the 5, and then also starts arguing about how many markers he has taken. Stops the game. I hate to cost anyone money, but at this point, he is seriously trying to disrupt me. As the dice would go out, he would restart his argument, so they would pull the dice back. He did this twice. Finally as the dice come out, he says $5000 Lay the 5. I roll a FIVE. He then argues his Lay bet was not working, and that he only had 2 markers, not three. I proceed to make the 5 point. He then takes a 4th $5k marker, and again puts $5000 down on the DP. I roll an 8, and come back with an 8. He walked away. So I know he lost $20k in markers, and probably had lost 2-3k before he took the markers. I felt bad, up until he tried to ice me, then I no longer cared. Not sure why he was so insistent on getting his win on my shoot, when it was obvious I was on a heater.

Beau has added the All Small / All Tall / and ALL bet to their craps tables. I shot the all Tall and all Small once each on other rolls. No one was playing it on my heater, so I have no idea if I rolled any during that shoot. I got paid five times on those bets, $175 each time, $875 total. I bet it maybe 40x, if that, so that would have been $600, for at least a $275 profit, but I suspect it was much more. I really screwed up though. Initially I was only betting the Small and Tall for $5 each, but not the All. On the Saturday morning heater, the shooter rolled the Tall (I got $175), and the Small (I got $175), but that also meant he had the ALL (I did not get paid the $880. DAMN). We then put the bets back up, and he hits the TALL AGAIN (another $175). He had the 2 left to complete the SMALL when he 7'd out.
This is a fun bet. I hope it sticks around, but it seemed to be paying out A LOT. Some of the dealers think it is going to get pulled. I hope not.

I got to play on my dream table. I was on a full table, and it had some players slowing the game down. Table behind me opens with 2 women players, one on each end. So I join them. HOLY CRAP! I don't make fancy bets. PL w/odds, bet across, press, VERY occasional hard way, and now the SMALL/TALL, if I remember. I barley had my PL bet down when the dice came flying down the table. I barley had announced my amount ACROSS when the dice came flying back down! OH, IT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE OVERRUN THE BASE DEALER GAMES! I love a game like that. We were able to play for about 15 minutes, just the 3 of us. players and crew all laughing, having a good time, and the dice were just a flying. I bet we were close to 180 rolls per hour, maybe even 200. It was fun.

The BIG BET scheme. I had been doing a lot of work in WinCraps, looking at playing $1040 or $1080 across, FOR 2 HITS, or 4 rolls, whichever comes first. Then regress it to $52 across or $104, etc. and press from there. A way to get an early profit locked in, but yet still have action if a heater should develop. WinCrpas was indicating anything less than $4k bankroll would bust out >50% of the time. So I had a plan that if I could get up $4k, I would try the big bet. I DID, and I DID.

My first time, I put $1080 across, and hit a 9 and then a 4, and regressed to $150 across. I 7'd out a few throws later.
The next time, I put $1040 across, on an 8 point, and went PSO.
The next time, I put $1040 across, and got paid once before I went 7 out.
That was pretty much an unqualified disaster. I didn't get a chance to really see how that would play out, as it ended so fast. I am not capable of working the math out, but I am pretty sure the chances of going PSO, and then one number, and PSO, has got to be pretty low. I knew it was possible, but felt it not likely.
I'll get it next time! I did get OVERLY nervous though with the bets on the table. I am not a DI, so I can't say that if affects my shooting, but I do usually throw best when I am in a nice calm, almost trance like state, and these bets, most certainly, do not let me get in that state. I will need to figure out how to get around this.

I struggled with that damn 8 point again this trip. At one stretch, I failed to make the 8, four times in a row. I was pounding the five though, so I was holding even with my rack. Then the next roll, I set the FIVE for the point. YIPPEE. I bump the PL bet by 5 and take my odds to $150. After throwing 2 EIGHTS, I seven out. No FIVE. ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH

After getting screwed on my ratings in Feb., I resolved to pay closer attention prior to shift changes, to make sure my ratings were accurate. The first time I checked, the rating was in range. I explained I had been incorrectly rated last time, and that I wanted to check early on this time. When I asked him just before shift change how I was looking, he had me on the higher end of the range :-D. This pattern held true for each box I dealt with, until the Sunday morning session. I started out at $52 across for a few shooters, and I knew the box was not adjusting when I went to >$120 across. I also had a couple of times where I tried >$300 across, with no regression. I was not expecting the box changeover when it occurred, so I did not get to address my rating with him. The new box was visibly ticked with the mess she stepped into. Whatever he was supposed to be doing had not been getting done, or at least not the way she wanted it to look. It was time for me to leave, so I cashed out, and then asked what my rating was. He had me at $80. I apologized for making this her problem, but I stated that was way off the mark. I had been playing at least $150 rating for the past 2 hours, and my base dealer and stick both chimed in and supported that claim. The stick stated that I had played >$300 across a couple of times too, which I had. It pays to tip the crew well! She said she would take care of it, and I left. I did not follow up with the host to see if she made any adjustment.
My session Sunday night was with a box who remembers me from past trips, and I think knows I like to tip good when I am winning. I was telling him about the morning snafu with my rating, and so he said he would try to be sure to keep me on the high side of my range. He was fair to the casino, but generous to me. We discussed a bit how the $1080 bet, followed by the regression, would factor into a rating. Everything considered, I was much happier with the ratings from this trip. All but one were in line, or even a bit higher, than I was expecting. I am thinking it pays to let them know early you are interested in your rating. Of course, it also helps if you can get up early, tip like a fool, and be able to bet higher amounts at the start. The tipping is a factor. I have had more than one box say my tipping was taken into account when he did my rating.


odiousgambit Dec 05, 2012

>I would throw 5 box numbers, but make no point

If you ask me, this is the most maddening scenario in craps, at least when a player is determined to only bet the line with odds [that's my MO entirely]

>[small/tall/all] is a fun bet. I hope it sticks around, but it seemed to be paying out A LOT. Some of the dealers think it is going to get pulled.

I am always amazed to hear this. I think this is the bet Harrington DE has ditched since they were getting 'killed'. Please. I had my doubts it was even true. But recently at Harrington I heard the Box emphasize the maximum allowed wager on the fire bet was $5. Really? The casino, backed by the state, has a bet players like with an edge of around 20% [if I am reading that right at WoO] and they want to limit the action lest variance gets them a bad day once in a while?

In the case of small/tall/all, the edge is about 8%, so there is the argument that it gets bet instead of the hardways. Still, I can hardly see what the casino has to complain about. Players like something with an edge like that and you don't want their action?

RaleighCraps Dec 05, 2012

I am only looking at a 3 day snapshot, and about 22 hours of craps play, but I can most certainly say that the tables I played at LOST money on that bet over those 22 hours. They paid out A LOT of money. I got paid 5x, but I saw another 5 or 6 payouts on my tables when I was not playing the bet.

Admittedly, I witnessed 4 really good rolls. One by me and 3 others. So maybe I just happened to see the high point on the wave. But to hear the dealers say they felt the bet might not stay, was surprising. Maybe Beau is just getting bit by a lot of positive variance benefiting the players right now.

odiousgambit Dec 05, 2012

>Maybe Beau is just getting bit

Maybe they need a mathematician on board who can tell them what to expect. Like, how many days out of the month will be losers, and how much money they are actually making in spite of it. And how good the publicity is to have winners once in a while!

Posted by RaleighCraps
Oct 10, 2012

Order your Wizard of Odds Shirts

See the Wizard of Odds Shirts thread, under Announcements


RaleighCraps Oct 11, 2012

thanks DJ !

Posted by RaleighCraps
Oct 03, 2012

Fire bet

In my trip report, I forgot the single most fascinating thing about the fire bet that was hit.
The shooter had been rolling pretty good. He had made the 9, 6, and 8, and then the 9 again. He then sets the point of 5, so he needs to make this for us to get paid a minimum of $125. He had good control of the dice, in that he landed them near the wall every time, and they never bounced out, or into the dealer bank, etc. So he has thrown about 5 or 6 times for the 5 and has not made it. Out of the blue, he requests new dice! WTH? Who requests new dice in the middle of a roll, especially when you are shooting at your 4th Fire bet point?
He selects 2 new dice, throws them down the table, and the stick call was "Five, winner five." On his first throw with the new dice.

And, it just occurred to me that I did not have a single die leave the table in all of my craps play this past weekend. I attribute that to throwing from stick left as often as I did, plus the shorter tables.


Juyemura Oct 03, 2012

Obviously he was a pro who sensed the dice were dirty or sticky. Grin.

midwestgb Oct 03, 2012

Great finale to the story. I intend to change dice when stuck on making a Fire point sometime soon... ;-)

EvenBob Oct 11, 2012

How much for just the patch? I have a jacket to

put it on.

Posted by RaleighCraps
Sep 30, 2012

Harrah's Cherokee Trip 9/29-930/12

My wife, I, and another couple decided to make a Saturday over night trip to Cherokee. 311 miles, 5 hour trip. We left at 10:00 AM Sat. morning. It rained most of the drive out there, sometimes heavy. Four miles from our exit off the highway, traffic slows to a crawl, and a police car and ambulance are making their way up the middle of the stalled traffic, to the accident scene a mile in front of us. Fortunately, they did not stop traffic, and the cars did not seem to be too damaged. Added maybe 15 minutes travel time. We stayed at the Holiday Inn Express, which allowed me to claim I was not a craps expert, but I had stayed at HI Express last night. :-D. It is a 7 minute walk to the front door of the casino. As it turned out, my wife and I went back to our room at 2:00 AM. I woke up at 3:30 AM, and after not being able to get back to sleep, dressed and walked back across the street to the craps table. I never saw the room again. $130 for 2 hours. LOL My wife did stay until 8:00 AM and ended up checking us out. She was very happy with their breakfast.
Cherokee had SIX $10 tables, all full, and a $25 table, also full. They are the shorter tables, six people to a side. After 10 minutes, I was able to squeeze into a corner spot. I have previously decided I really want the spot directly to stick left, or stick right as option #2, but that was not going to be likely with the crush of players. The thread on NC Casinos ... has details about the games and the dealers. Suffice it to say, new dealers + new players = s l o w mistake filled games. I buy in for $1K and immediately go down $200. By the time we go to dinner at 7:00 PM I am down about $700. We had some stretches of no points, but no one made more than one point. Some of my bests profits came from playing the Lay 4 for $50 and $100. I played a few DCs, with rather unspectacular results. I would get 2 $25 DCs on numbers, then one would get knocked down, and a 7 out would come on the next roll with my next DC wager up, meaning that loss offest my remaining DC win. I got down to my last hundred, then made a great run back from the right side, to $1000, only to lose about $300 to the 7 out. Then back to cold tables, and I was not helping. At one point, three straight PSO rolls was my contribution. It sucked, or rather, I sucked. Ended up getting down to last hundred, bought in for $400 more, but around midnight, I ended up hitting the ATM for $400. $5.96 fee. Ouch. I am at $1800 cashed and looking to be about out of fun. A spot opens to stick left on a table that was cold and pretty much dissolved all at once. I like shooting by myself, so I changed to that table.
I started making a good run, which of course, meant here come the dolts. I managed to get my BR back up to $1400 before the table became full of slow play and mistake riddled. At 1:45 AM my wife and I head with the other couple across the street to the Holiday Inn. I have $1100, down $700.
I sleep from 2:00 to 3:30AM, wake up, and cannot get back to sleep. At 4:00 AM I get dressed and head back to the craps table. (I had only slept about 3 hours on Friday night before the trip, so I was already dragging). Much to my delight, I find three $10 tables in play. I pick the one with the fewest players, and grab my spot at immediate stick left. I am rolling 2 or 3 points EVERY time now. On one of my rolls, I set the 10 as point 1, hit it on roll 2, set the 9 as a point on roll 3, hit the 9 on roll 4, set the 8 on roll #5, and hit the 8 on roll #6. I had forgotten the fire bet!! Alas, I repeated the 9, and could not hit it. But 3 points on 6 rolls was nice. This table was running good, but then some horn jerks showed up. I don't mind the horn bets, but damn it, know what the bet is, and how it works. Arguments about payouts and whether a bet was active started ensuing. We had 3 good shooters on this table, but the length and stupidity of the arguments finally caused me to color in and go to another table that was empty (all these idiots had come from that table).
I am rolling by myself. Immediate loss, then I make a point, lose, make 2 points, lose. I am slowly gaining bankroll back. A guy shows up on other end of table, 2 Asian players take the corner on my left. I have a good roll, and both Asian's have good rolls. I am finally on the plus side for the first time of this trip. By now, the other end of the table has filled in. The good player on that end has a good roll. The next 3 shooters are duds. The dice come back to me, I make 2 points again, and so does the first Asian. After the dice pass, his buddy makes a weird throw and the first guy is cracking on his buddy about not trying, or being a terrible player. He then does a 40 minute Roll !!! He makes the 9 three times for his first 3 points. In between he is hitting the 10s. I mention this next part in the NC Casino thread, but he hits the 10 seven times. I made the following bet sequence on that 10 during his roll (25, press to 50, press to 100, press to 150, press to 200, press to 500, press to 1000). HE HIT MY 1000 BET ONCE! I tipped the shooter, $10 on the 200 hit, $25 on the 500 hit, and $100 on the 1000 hit. I have to tell you, getting 4 purples for a pay, and having to throw $50 down as the vig was exciting! Losing the $1000 bet to the 7 out, not so much. LOL But it did its job. The shooter made the 4# fire, but only one person from the other end of the table was on the bet. But he made a number of repeat points, so it was a big payday for me. I was playing $10 and $15 passline, with $100 to $150 odds on most of the points. So the dice move to the other end of the table, and the bullshit starts. By now, people have flocked to the table. How the shooter stayed focus is beyond me. The good shooter on the other end, 7s out, and the next 4 shooters only make 1 point combined. But it took more than 1/2 hour of them screwing around to get the dice back to me. As I roll the dice to set the 9 point, the other end of the table gets completely bogged down as a new dealer cannot figure out what the moron players want. 3 minutes later they are still discussing it. The two Asians grab their chips and step to the newly opened table next to this one. CRAP! I want to play with them! The arguing is STILL going on! I say frigg it. I tell my dealer to color me up, or I am just walking. (the bank was down to just one row of colors. We had really clipped them hard.) I am close to $4k. They say you can't walk, you have a Pass line bet, and you are the shooter. I tell the box, no one is the shooter with all the arguing going on at the other end. My $15 pass line bet is now a dealer bet, and I am passing the dice. I then join the Asians at the other table.
So if you are keeping track, I have now had to leave 2 tables that were running okay to great, because of bickering and arguing over Don'ts, buys, and those damn horn bets. I am getting calls from my wife. They are checked out and headed to the casino. We each try another roll, but nothing spectacular, so I color up and head to the cashier. $4325, but my wife had been by earlier and I had given her $400 total. So I am just shy of +3k. I meet up with the other 3 on some new Dean Martin, cowboy slot game. I am on cloud 9. I join them on this game. It has a minor Jackpot at $21, and a major at $211. I put in $100, play max bet of $4 and 3 spins later hit a payout of ~$260. It was NOT the major. I am running HOT! I cash out at $200 having doubled my money. We all move over to the Playboy slots. I watch but don't play. I am heading for the high dollar slots! My wife and my buddy go with me. I end up playing a $5 Double Bonus 9-6 JoB. It has a progressive Jackpot of $25,000 and change. I don't know the strategy that well, so I decide I am going to play for the Royal at every chance. I put in $100, and hit enough winners to keep playing for 15 to 20 spins. I hit a flush and 2 full houses, but only one time did I have 3 to the Royal. It was fun, and I cashed out at $201, so another $101 win. Back to watch the other wife play some slots. We are leaving in about 1.5 hours. My wife is getting killed in slots, so I say let's go play BJ and kill some time. She agrees so off to the table pit we head.
Of course, it takes us past the craps pit, and the $25 table, with ONE player at the end opposite of my stick left position. A SIGN. My wife says NO. I say, WTH, I am so far up. I'll cash 500, and see what I can do with it. She agrees. The other guy is a FREAK. He is hitting points like crazy. And now I am playing $25 Pass and $100 to $250 in odds. Initially I did not have much in odds, but as I won, I was putting it in play. I have about $2K. I shoot and make 2 points, but get too much on the box numbers and end up breaking even. My wife decides she wants to throw. The other 2 players say hell yes. She makes her first point, has made a couple of box number, and is looking strong. Dice are in her hand and as she goes to throw, some ploppy with $10 in his hand tries to bet it on a $25 table. I see her flinch as she sees the hands. I KNOW it has nothing to do with it, but EVERY craps player here KNOWS the next call. SEVEN OUT, LINE AWAY. I thought she was going to go after the guy! I played for about 30 minutes, and cashed out 1725 (dealer tips were $5 PL bets with $20 odds that got paid at least 4x). I had $5 on the fire which the other shooter hit for four numbers. He was shooting at the 5th number( the four) when he 7'd out. That was the first time my wife say a fire bet paid. When I told her we could have had $1,250 if he had made the four, and $5,000 if he had then made the 10, she was shocked. As I walked away from the cashier cage with my $1725, I hear the manager, who has to approve the purples, say, "he is sure having a good day". By now we find that our friends have moved to the 3 card poker tables, and it is apparent they are going to be there for another 30 minutes. Back to the $25 craps table. LOL Buy in for $500. Same guys on the table . I get up to about $1k this time, but 2 bad rolls in a row knocks me back, so I color up at $650. ANOTHER $150 win!
Best thing about the $25 table? NOT A SINGLE PROP BET was made, other than hardways! NONE! Have I mentioned how much I hate that damn horn?
$5500 back into the account. Looks like my Beau Rivage trip in November is now fully funded! AND, I got to make my $500 Buy bet with the press to $1000 AND got paid! I did try the $500 bet once more, but lost that one after 4 throws.


RaleighCraps Sep 30, 2012

Sorry for the length.

When I was stick left, I only had 1 PSO that I can recall. The rest of them came from the ends of the table. Additionally, only 1 7 out came when I kept the dice in the front right corner of the table, next to the mirror. All the rest of my 7 outs came about when I let the dice get back around to the dealer's working stack! I got away with it a few times, but other than one time, all of my 7 outs happened that way. I am a believer now.

TIMSPEED Oct 01, 2012


I got absolutely OBLITERATED at Silver Legacy in Reno ($900 Fri Night, $700 Saturday Night). Guess I should have been in NC...haha

ten2win Oct 01, 2012

Excellent review.

I was in Gatlinburg 7 years ago for a conference and we drove over to Harrah's on a cold, rainy, unhikeable day. It was kind of shithole then. Glad to see it's improved with the addition of table games.

RaleighCraps Oct 01, 2012

The couple we were with were there a couple of years ago, and they could not even figure out where they were in the old casino. It has been completely redone. I never made it upstairs to the shops and whatever else is up there. The layout is fairly confusing. A map would be a help.

Headlock Oct 01, 2012

That is awesome, RC, the kind of day craps players dream about! You could have been writing my story! I don't know if you ever consider it, but I'm a proponent of hedging the fire bet on the 5th and 6th point. I know it's great getting the big payday but I almost always regret not laying the 5th point. On the 4 and 10 I lay $150 for every dollar on the fire bet, so $750 for a $5 fire (I'm ignoring the vig). If the shooter makes the 4 you win $500, $1,250 minus the $750 lay. If the shooter sevens out you win $375 on the lay bet and $125 on the fire, same $500. Win or lose, I'm usually glad I made the lay bet. I love the idea of begin a winner either way.

RaleighCraps Oct 02, 2012

There was a big thread on this site last year I think, that was dedicated to the very discussion of whether or not it made sense to hedge the Fire bet.

I considered it at the time, but decided not to, for the following:

The shooter was throwing the dice to my end of the table.

The 5th point was the 4, so it was closest to the wall.

The shooter was also on the Fire.

There were only 2 bettors on my end, so my $750 Lay would have been obvious.

Finally, I was running so hot I was sure he was going to get all 6! It was that kind of a run.

None of these are important in the math of the game, but at the time, they were important in the social part of the game.

For this particular occasion, I decided to go with the social aspect, but yes, the hedge was considered. I do think it is a good play, and in fact, about 2 hours earlier had been discussing it with a fellow player when a shooter hit 4 points and I was not on the Fire bet.

RaleighCraps Oct 02, 2012

Sorry all for the poor writing style. I wrote this after having slept for 3 hours Fri night, 5 hr car ride on Sat. morning, 10 hrs of craps play, 1.5 hrs of sleep , 8 more hrs of gambling, 5 hr car ride, some TV, and then decide to blog about the trip at midnight! I'm kind of surprised I was even that coherent.