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egalite
egalite
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December 30th, 2011 at 3:59:58 PM permalink
This variation has been introduced at one of the provincial Gala chain of casinos and I've heard is also on offer at the Empire London.

Aimed at the Chinese clientèle, basically when the Banker wins and the Banker hand includes a RED EIGHT, you pay no commission (score doesn't matter). I was surprised how often this can happen in a six deck game (I had four "red eight" Banker wins in one shoe).

My question is, how does this "nice little promotion" affect the -1.056% HE on the Banker side (6 deck games).

Thanks in anticipation.
Goethe
Goethe
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May 8th, 2012 at 10:07:40 AM permalink
Just found this thread . . . .

At Napoleon's in Leicester Square, one of the guys on the floor told me of a regular promo they ran (a couple of years back now, true) where after midnight they would offer commission free wagers on the Banker hand on their Baccarat games. I never worked out the reduction on the HE, as an out-of-Towner it was unlikely I'd ever be there to take advantage - and even if I was, I think the chances of getting a seat at a table over one of the local Chinese regulars would be extremely slim.
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WongBo
WongBo
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May 8th, 2012 at 11:01:36 AM permalink
Quote: Goethe

Just found this thread . . . .

At Napoleon's in Leicester Square, one of the guys on the floor told me of a regular promo they ran (a couple of years back now, true) where after midnight they would offer commission free wagers on the Banker hand on their Baccarat games. I never worked out the reduction on the HE, .


this would have the same effect as giving the normal house edge on the PLAYER wager bet to the person wagering on BANKER.
in an eight deck game, this would be approx.1.235%.
perhaps they were compensating for this with some other variation in the rules?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
egalite
egalite
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July 18th, 2012 at 2:25:28 AM permalink
Why would the HE be the same as the Player (increased) in a commission free game?
heather
heather
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July 18th, 2012 at 3:49:10 AM permalink
I think that WongBo is saying that what is normally the HE for Player bets (1.29%) would become the HE for Banker bets in such a game. I don't think that's right, though, because Banker bets win more frequently. I think that a game with no Banker commission and no other rule variations would have a negative HE for Banker bets, and a positive expectation for the players (not to be confused with the Player bet). Wizard gives the players' EV for Banker bets in such a game (with eight decks) as 1.235%, which might be where the confusion arose from. I would guess that HE would be -1.235% but I could be misunderstanding how HE is arrived at.
24Bingo
24Bingo
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July 18th, 2012 at 4:16:02 AM permalink
No, what he's saying is that the HE for player bets would become the edge to the player for banker bets, so if the players kept at it in their usual fashion - which doesn't seem unlikely, given how superstitious they tend to be - they'd break even, ignoring tie bets.
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WongBo
WongBo
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July 18th, 2012 at 4:58:23 AM permalink
in an eight deck game, disregarding ties,
the Banker probability of winning is .458597
the Player probability of winning is .446247

so a bet on Player normally yields a house edge of .1235
the difference between the two probabilities

a bet on Banker with 5% commission returns 0.435668 (.458597 *.95)
a bet on Banker normally has an edge of 0.010579
the difference between the returns.

when you eliminate the commission on Banker,
the Banker has a greater probability of winning by .1235,
a player advantage,
which is the same amount as the house edge on the Player shown above.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
heather
heather
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July 18th, 2012 at 5:07:52 AM permalink
Shouldn't there be a negative house edge with no commission, though? Wizard's chart on commissions shows a positive EV for the players, which to my mind says negative house edge. That's how I've always understood that bet to work (hence the existence of the commission).
WongBo
WongBo
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July 18th, 2012 at 5:10:34 AM permalink
yes that is correct, there is no house edge on the Banker bet in commission-free,
there is a player advantage of .1235%.

i added a line to my post to make this clear,
that this is a player advantage bet.

if i found a live table that offered this,
i would never leave!
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
heather
heather
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July 18th, 2012 at 5:49:37 AM permalink
Thanks greatly for clearing things up. I thought that I was missing something obvious again because I'm still on my first cup of coffee this morning.

Quote: WongBo

if i found a live table that offered this,
i would never leave!



No doubt. The Wizard says that "For a short time in 1989 the Sahara offered 0% commission." I've heard other people innuendo at other houses offering this as a promotion. I've never seen it in real life, but, yeah, if I encountered it, I'd sit at that table betting the Banker over and over again until the pit crew tried to move me to a different game.

Baccarat with no Banker commission and no other changes to the rules is the is the Higgs Boson of table games, I believe.

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