Newbie question about house edge
December 11th, 2009 at 12:44:56 AM
permalink
Wizard,
First thanks again for you wonderfully informative web sites.
Your discussion of John Scarne brings back many fond memories of my younger days and my older brother, an amature magician and Scarne fan. Scarne's autobiography was one of the few books he (willingly) shared with me.
Now to my questions. You state: "The first mistake is ignoring ties in calculating the house edge of the don't pass bet. This results in a house edge of 1.403%, instead of 1.364%. Some may say this is just a difference of opinion in how it should be calculated. However, I am firmly of the opinion that ties should be counted."
Could you explain why. If your money is available for another bet why should it be counted in computing the odds of the current one?
You also state: "The third and most serious mistake is ignoring the fact that the player is allowed to bet more laying the odds than taking the odds. For example, if 2X odds are allowed and the player bets $10 on the don't pass and the point is 4 then he can lay $40 on the odds for an odds win of $20."
Could you please explain the difference between "laying odds" and "taking odds" and how that impacts the odds.
Many thanks,
HML (vintage) 1948
First thanks again for you wonderfully informative web sites.
Your discussion of John Scarne brings back many fond memories of my younger days and my older brother, an amature magician and Scarne fan. Scarne's autobiography was one of the few books he (willingly) shared with me.
Now to my questions. You state: "The first mistake is ignoring ties in calculating the house edge of the don't pass bet. This results in a house edge of 1.403%, instead of 1.364%. Some may say this is just a difference of opinion in how it should be calculated. However, I am firmly of the opinion that ties should be counted."
Could you explain why. If your money is available for another bet why should it be counted in computing the odds of the current one?
You also state: "The third and most serious mistake is ignoring the fact that the player is allowed to bet more laying the odds than taking the odds. For example, if 2X odds are allowed and the player bets $10 on the don't pass and the point is 4 then he can lay $40 on the odds for an odds win of $20."
Could you please explain the difference between "laying odds" and "taking odds" and how that impacts the odds.
Many thanks,
HML (vintage) 1948
December 11th, 2009 at 4:45:39 AM
permalink
>If your money is available for another bet why should
>it be counted in computing the odds of the current one?
Here is my stab at it:
Its a matter of being consistent with terminology as to "bet resolved" versus "bet made".
When there is a "push" such as in Blackjack or Craps, the dealer takes his fist and lightly taps the table near your bet to indicate that the bet has been resolved and you may legally pick it up and do anything you want with that money. The 12 rolling in Craps results in a "Push" for a Don'tPass bet. You may take that money up and do anything you want with it. The bet has been resolved. The fact that most players are going to just leave it there for the next roll should not suddenly make you change your methods in reporting a house edge. That bet has indeed been resolved.
>the difference between "laying odds" and "taking odds"?
Taking odds is done if you've been a "Right Bettor" such as on the Pass Line.
Laying odds is done if you've been a "Wrong Bettor" such as on the Don'tPass Line.
When you take the odds, you are betting that the point will in fact roll prior to the shooter rolling a Seven and your odds bet will be paid off at the mathematically true and correct odds for the event taking place.
When you Lay the odds, you are betting that the Seven will roll prior to the point being rolled and your odds bet will be paid off at the mathematically true and correct odds for the event taking place.
>it be counted in computing the odds of the current one?
Here is my stab at it:
Its a matter of being consistent with terminology as to "bet resolved" versus "bet made".
When there is a "push" such as in Blackjack or Craps, the dealer takes his fist and lightly taps the table near your bet to indicate that the bet has been resolved and you may legally pick it up and do anything you want with that money. The 12 rolling in Craps results in a "Push" for a Don'tPass bet. You may take that money up and do anything you want with it. The bet has been resolved. The fact that most players are going to just leave it there for the next roll should not suddenly make you change your methods in reporting a house edge. That bet has indeed been resolved.
>the difference between "laying odds" and "taking odds"?
Taking odds is done if you've been a "Right Bettor" such as on the Pass Line.
Laying odds is done if you've been a "Wrong Bettor" such as on the Don'tPass Line.
When you take the odds, you are betting that the point will in fact roll prior to the shooter rolling a Seven and your odds bet will be paid off at the mathematically true and correct odds for the event taking place.
When you Lay the odds, you are betting that the Seven will roll prior to the point being rolled and your odds bet will be paid off at the mathematically true and correct odds for the event taking place.
