Expected value of National Society of Collegiate Scholars membership
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Browsing their website, I saw awards for $500 or $1000, so let's call it $750 per award.
The sales letter said they give out $750k/year in awards, so that's 1000 awards per year.
Their website says they get 45,000 new members a year.
So if awards were distributed randomly, the chances of getting one would be 1000 / 45,000 = 1/45.
So the expected value of an award would be 1/45 x $750 = $16.67.
So the return on the $95 membership fee would be $16.67 ÷ $95 = 17.5%.
So, I conclude it would be a better deal for me to buy $95 in lotto tickets for this person than to pay the $95 membership fee.
Also, $95/member x 45k members = $4.3M in membership dues, but they give out only $750k in scholarships. Hmm.
In fact, the org's Form 990 for 2018 shows:
$5M in revenue from member dues
$417k in grants paid out (probably the scholarships)
$1.5M in salaries, including $290k for the director, or $24k/mo.
.....The director's compensation isn't far from the total amount paid out in scholarships.
$1.5M for direct-mail solicitations
Note that they spend 3x on direct-mail marketing versus the scholarships they award.
Discuss.
It's a better investment than buying a star but not as good as putting it into a 401K.
I bet they also sell cool-looking plaques proclaiming your membership.
I've seen invites for this for both my kids. The invitation letter looks impressive and I think they try to look like they are affiliated somehow with the University, without saying directly that they are, because they aren't. We did NOT join.
I have two kids in college. Both of them got lots of invitations to join miscellaneous so-called honor societies. My older daughter said they were all basically scams selling resume decoration.
Quote: MichaelBluejayA college student I know got an invitation to the National Society of Collegiate Scholars. For a $95 membership fee you get the chance to apply for scholarships, which seems to be the only real benefit, since there's no prestige in having this particular organization on your resumé. I wondered, what's the expected value of the membership?
Browsing their website, I saw awards for $500 or $1000, so let's call it $750 per award.
The sales letter said they give up $750k/year in awards, so that's 1000 awards per year.
Their website says they get 45,000 new members a year.
So if awards were distributed randomly, the chances of getting one would be 1000 / 45,000 = 1/45.
So the expected value of an award would be 1/45 x $750 = $16.67.
So the return on the $95 membership fee would be $16.67 ÷ $95 = 17.5%.
So, I conclude it would be a better deal for me to buy $95 in lotto tickets for this person than to pay the $95 membership fee.
Also, $95/member x 45k members = $4.3M in membership dues, but they give out only $750k in scholarships. Hmm.
In fact, the org's Form 990 for 2018 shows:
$5M in revenue from member dues
$417k in grants paid out (probably the scholarships)
$1.5M in salaries, including $290k for the director, or $24k/mo.
.....The director's compensation isn't far from the total amount paid out in scholarships.
$1.5M for direct-mail solicitations
Discuss.
Nothing to discuss. They don't charge a $95 membership fee to lose money on it, probably overstaffed, as well...either that or some of the higher-ups make a ridiculous amount of money compared to work output.
Quote: WizardGood investigative work there! What a fraud that organization is.
I have two kids in college. Both of them got lots of invitations to join miscellaneous so-called honor societies. My older daughter said they were all basically scams selling resume decoration.
The Better Business Bureau is an even bigger scam.
AAA, on the other hand, can be great value. That's just the Planet Fitness business model of making a ton on the folks who join, but don't use the services. If all Planet Fitness members used the nearest gyms three times per week, not only would PF get financially crushed---there probably also wouldn't be enough machines for everyone.
Hardly. Put it on your resumé, and what it says about you is either, "This applicant is trying to pass off this paid-for distinction as legitimate," or "This applicant is too dumb to realize that this organization isn't a bona-fide honor society." I used to write resumés for a living, I'd never suggest a client put an org like this on her/his resumé.Quote: billryan$95 gets you bragging rights. It's another line of a resume.
Years ago my insurance agent sent out a press release, bragging about the bogus award he got from one of those award companies, apparently not realizing it was bogus. I immediately switched agents, not trusting his competence, since that was a big red flag. Turned out I was right: The new agent advised that one policy the first sold me was wrong wouldn't have covered me in the event of a peril. (I confirmed that with the underwriter.) That could have cost me $500k.
Quote: MichaelBluejayHardly. Put it on your resumé, and what it says about you is either, "This applicant is trying to pass off this paid-for distinction as legitimate," or "This applicant is too dumb to realize that this organization isn't a bona-fide honor society." I used to write resumés for a living, I'd never suggest a client put an org like this on her/his resumé.
Years ago my insurance agent sent out a press release, bragging about the bogus award he got from one of those award companies, apparently not realizing it was bogus. I immediately switched agents, not trusting his competence, since that was a big red flag. Turned out I was right: The new agent advised that one policy the first sold me was wrong wouldn't have covered me in the event of a peril. (I confirmed that with the underwriter.) That could have cost me $500k.
Resumes are bullcrap anyway. Of course, I probably spent my first several years out of college working against myself due to that opinion. The only thing I'd list on my resume was previous jobs and educational stuff. No hobbies. No clubs. No distinctions---because those are all bullcrap and none of the employer's business anyway.
There's really nothing dumber than the concept of a resume, in my opinion. It seems that employers like to have twenty, or so, rules when it comes to the writing of resumes. That's a complete waste of time. Here are my jobs, here are my schools, this was my GPA---you either want to interview me or you don't.
I always loved it when people would list stuff like that as being pertinent to places where I did the hiring, basically, both hotels. The, "What other skills," section of an application. Pretentious as hell. That application was going in the trash. If anyone brought in an actual resume to work at a hotel---that was definitely going in the garbage.
Also, anything with a misspelling.
Based on my limited experience with non-profits, I'd go with the latter.Quote: Mission146They don't charge a $95 membership fee to lose money on it, probably overstaffed, as well...either that or some of the higher-ups make a ridiculous amount of money compared to work output.
Quote: JoemanBased on my limited experience with non-profits, I'd go with the latter.
They probably list all of the names in alphabetical order and go to random.org to use the random number generator to figure out who gets the scholarships.
I used to think so, getting it for the roadside assistance, until one day I was scrutinizing my car insurance policy and saw that it had a roadside assistance add-on (that my agent never told me about). I can't find my notes about the details, but I remember that for the same or lower cost than AAA, I get free towing for *way* more miles than AAA offers.Quote: Mission146AAA, on the other hand, can be great value.
Quote: MichaelBluejayI used to think so, getting it for the roadside assistance, until one day I was scrutinizing my car insurance policy and saw that it had a roadside assistance add-on (that my agent never told me about). I can't find my notes about the details, but I remember that for the same or lower cost than AAA, I get free towing for *way* more miles than AAA offers.
I guess that depends on the insurance. AAA was uncapped, so with the garbage that I used to drive, I might want more than one tow every six months covered. I think that's what my insurance plan at the time would cover.
I'm running a sold out 62-room hotel, by myself, I've got three guests in front of me wanting to check in, I have to take another bottle of Absolut down to the bar...Rooms 211 and 319 want extra towels...208 needs an extra blanket and sheets because the idiot owner won't let the housekeepers leave stuff in there for the pull-out couch and the idiot housekeeper forgot to do it this morning for that room even though she was given a note by the morning guy.
And, you want to know if I have seen your application yet? What's your last name? Jeffries? J-E-F-F-R-I-E-S, right?
---And, in the trash that application goes.
Quote: CrystalMathScam scholarships to pay for scam college. For the most part, college is exactly the same thing - resume dressing.
I'd say that's true unless you have a career path in mind for which college is a prerequisite to an entry-level position.
I doubt anyone ever looked at this worthless book except parents of students who were in it. Same basic business plan that takes advantage of naive people but not quite a scam, IMO, because they did provide exactly what they said they would.
Quote: CrystalMathFor the most part, college is exactly the same thing - resume dressing.
That's a strong opinion. All other things being equal, for an executive job, I would strongly prefer the college graduate if I were doing the hiring.
Quote: gordonm888When I was in college, there was an organization called Who's Who in Colleges and Universities...
I'm in the 1988 edition! I am proud to say I wasn't stupid enough to actually buy it. They had old versions at my college library and I could see it was like a hard-bound phone book for a major city in a tiny font.
Quote: WizardThat's a strong opinion. All other things being equal, for an executive job, I would strongly prefer the college graduate if I were doing the hiring.
Yes, I didn't qualify it. I have benefited by attending college, without a doubt. Graduating from engineering school is a good indicator that the individual can learn well, has a certain amount of grit, and can follow directions. It has opened a lot of doors, but everything I do now, I didn't learn in college.
There are so many colleges where the ROI is just not there. As a society, I think we have put too much focus onto college and so many kids get pushed into it and taking on debt when they just aren't ready to make those decisions. I got lucky. I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I knew I would go to a technical school and come out the other side alright, regardless of what I was doing.
Quote: WizardI'm in the 1988 edition! I am proud to say I wasn't stupid enough to actually buy it. They had old versions at my college library and I could see it was like a hard-bound phone book for a major city in a tiny font.
I think a librarian recommended a “Who’s Who?” Book to me as a reference for finding people who are not important enough to be in an encyclopedia.
Bingo! I told my kids that graduating college tells a potential employer that you had the fortitude to do something challenging that takes a lot of time, and that you're able to put up with a certain amount of B.S.Quote: CrystalMathGraduating from engineering school is a good indicator that the individual can learn well, has a certain amount of grit, and can follow directions.
I haven't run the numbers, but community college seems like a great value. I'm pretty sure that when I was growing up, a 2-year degree didn't get you anything but a cheaper way to do the first two years of your 4-year degree. But now, there's a huge number of jobs that a 2-year degree qualifies you for. From my notes, according to BLS.gov, there are several jobs (mostly medical) requiring a 2-year degree for which the median salary is $50-78k (in 2015, I haven't looked recently). That's a decent middle-class life right there.Quote: CrystalMathThere are so many colleges where the ROI is just not there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Society_of_Collegiate_Scholars
Quote:The society offers educational opportunities with organizations such as DC Internships, FutureDocsAbroad, GiftedHire, Make School, Semester at Sea, and Outward Bound Costa Rica.[24][25]
signature programs
PACE (Planning to Achieve Collegiate Excellence): A mentorship program which connects selected NSCS members with local middle school students
Quote: MichaelBluejayBingo! I told my kids that graduating college tells a potential employer that you had the fortitude to do something challenging that takes a lot of time, and that you're able to put up with a certain amount of B.S.
(Quote clipped, relevance)
I had the fortitude to work a full-time job and limit my drinking just enough to get by. If I'd ONLY been attending college, it would have been easier than tying my shoes.
Just spend an equal amount of time on your own learning the subject matter and you will be better off.
Quote: DRichI am a true believer that 80% of people that now get a University degree are wasting their money.
Just spend an equal amount of time on your own learning the subject matter and you will be better off.
I have sent two of my kids off to college and I'm sure the third too when she is old enough. I make no apologies for that. Increased income is not the only reason for education. To name just two others, it is increased knowledge and the college experience itself. If I didn't go to college I probably would have accomplished nothing with my life.
Quote: WizardI have sent two of my kids off to college and I'm sure the third too when she is old enough. I make no apologies for that. Increased income is not the only reason for education. To name just two others, it is increased knowledge and the college experience itself. If I didn't go to college I probably would have accomplished nothing with my life.
Yup. People should be celebrating their so-called "useless" higher education instead of telling people it is unnecessary. Look at the most educated countries in the world and see if you'd prefer the top of the list over the bottom.
I'm not saying there is a proven correlation, but Cap'n Obvious would probably smack you in the face.
Quote: MichaelBluejayHardly. Put it on your resumé, and what it says about you is either, "This applicant is trying to pass off this paid-for distinction as legitimate," or "This applicant is too dumb to realize that this organization isn't a bona-fide honor society." I used to write resumés for a living, I'd never suggest a client put an org like this on her/his resumé.
Years ago my insurance agent sent out a press release, bragging about the bogus award he got from one of those award companies, apparently not realizing it was bogus. I immediately switched agents, not trusting his competence, since that was a big red flag. Turned out I was right: The new agent advised that one policy the first sold me was wrong wouldn't have covered me in the event of a peril. (I confirmed that with the underwriter.) That could have cost me $500k.
Unless, of course, the person reading the resume also is a member. It's a networking site. If enough people join, they will continue to thrive. A lot of college students will spend more on beer pong than the cost of membership.
Quote: WizardI have sent two of my kids off to college and I'm sure the third too when she is old enough. I make no apologies for that. Increased income is not the only reason for education. To name just two others, it is increased knowledge and the college experience itself. If I didn't go to college I probably would have accomplished nothing with my life.
I can think of nothing I am happier to have spent gobs of money on than my two sons’ college educations. And nothing I am prouder of than my mother sacrificing so I could have my college and med school education. My older son isn’t making a lot of money but he has a job he loves that is only possible because of his college/Masters/PhD education. Younger son makes decent money directly related to his computer science college degree. Plus of course I am not a doctor without higher education. Ex wife not a lawyer without higher education. New wife not a dentist without higher education.
College has worked out well for me and my family.
Quote: WizardI have sent two of my kids off to college and I'm sure the third too when she is old enough. I make no apologies for that. Increased income is not the only reason for education. To name just two others, it is increased knowledge and the college experience itself. If I didn't go to college I probably would have accomplished nothing with my life.
I agree that the college experience has shaped a good portion of my life. My thought was that the University education can for most people be obtained without paying for it. Most college class curriculums are posted online and could be followed by someone not enrolled. There are forums available on almost every topic and one could get assistance as needed without talking to the professor ("or in most cases the Teaching Assistant").
College was some of the best six years of my life.
1. There are worthless degrees at many colleges for various reasons. Also, some colleges have dumbed down their standards. Even a Master's Degree in teaching is usually just a check-the-box exercise in which you get vocational training in teaching at the K-12 level.
2. College is what you make of it. Ditto for life.
3. I know many people who have flunked out of college, and most of them are people I wouldn't hire. So, completing college is a meaningful distinction, IMO.
4. College was some of the best years of my life.
5. Paying for my two daughters' college educations (including study abroad in France for one of them) was one of the good things I have done with my life. They graduated without debt.
6. If you have a love for learning, you have a head-start at having a happy life.
