Commish
Commish
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April 14th, 2019 at 9:23:04 PM permalink
That is true for Florida card rooms but not at the 5 major casinos. The trips wager is a separate wager and paid irregardless of the poker hand.
Gialmere
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April 15th, 2019 at 6:29:52 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

It's that way in jurisdictions where the house can't bank the game. Florida card rooms is one example. California card rooms is another.

There's another player who represents a syndicate, and they bank your bet. The house just deals it and takes a rake.


What is the rake for UTH? I've only played against the house, but there's a non-Indian California card casino somewhat near to me that I hear has it and I'd like to check it out.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
beachbumbabs
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April 15th, 2019 at 6:38:55 PM permalink
Quote: Commish

That is true for Florida card rooms but not at the 5 major casinos. The trips wager is a separate wager and paid irregardless of the poker hand.



Right. There's a difference, actually many, between card rooms and casinos here.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Joeman
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Gialmere
April 16th, 2019 at 6:23:32 AM permalink
Quote: Gialmere

What is the rake for UTH? I've only played against the house, but there's a non-Indian California card casino somewhat near to me that I hear has it and I'd like to check it out.

In the FL card rooms, the rake is paid by the syndicate player only. It's collected every hand before the hand is dealt, and is a percentage of how much is wagered for that hand. There is no rake for the regular players (other than the HE of the game).

Not sure if the CA card rooms are the same way.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
Gialmere
Gialmere
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April 16th, 2019 at 7:54:19 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

In the FL card rooms, the rake is paid by the syndicate player only. It's collected every hand before the hand is dealt, and is a percentage of how much is wagered for that hand. There is no rake for the regular players (other than the HE of the game).

Not sure if the CA card rooms are the same way.


Clever. Heh. It's amazing how good we humans are at making rules and than figuring out how to get around them.
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
Gialmere
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April 18th, 2019 at 6:52:28 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Because of the way Florida defines poker, winners only collect when they WIN against another player, which is what routinely occurs in a standard poker game. However, the implementation of this rule has some strange effects for the so-called carnival games.

In Florida, carnival game bonus bets -- regardless of what the standard rules say -- only pay if the player wins against another player, which in this case is the House (via its player-banker). Consequently, the UTH Trips bet only pays if the player remains in the hand and beats the Dealer.

Same for 3-Card Poker, where the Pair Plus bet only pays if the player beats the Dealer. Also, the Ante Bonus (usually paid if Player hand is a straight or better) is completely absent from the game. To compensate, the various pay tables are "adjusted." For example, at a card room near me, the Pair Plus on its TCP paid 2-to-1 for any pair (among other changes).


Before this thread vanishes over the horizon, what happens to these card room side bets (Trips, Pair Plus etc.) if the player and dealer push? The player still doesn't "win". Do the bets win, lose or draw?
Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
beachbumbabs
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Gialmere
April 19th, 2019 at 7:11:44 AM permalink
In the case of Florida card rooms, they push.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Wizard
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July 24th, 2020 at 3:20:24 PM permalink
This topic came up on my live stream yesterday.

As I understand it, in Florida on the Trips bet the player player must also win. If he ties with a paying hand, the Trips bet is a push. Is this correct? I just asked if this is the policy in California and was told "no."

Here is my analysis of the standard 50-40-30-8-7-4-3 pay table under the Florida rule.

Player Pays Combinations Probability Return
Royal flush 50 85,615,200 0.000031 0.001539
Straight flush 40 734,237,144 0.000264 0.010559
Four of a kind 30 4,240,864,800 0.001525 0.045742
Full house 8 62,810,500,464 0.022582 0.180660
Flush 7 71,523,195,288 0.025715 0.180005
Straight 4 103,685,076,072 0.037278 0.149113
Three of a kind 3 97,664,829,948 0.035114 0.105341
Trips or better and push 0 28,636,706,336 0.010296 0.000000
Two pair or less -1 2,356,664,171,400 0.847300 -0.847300
Trips or better and lose -1 55,335,805,748 0.019895 -0.019895
Total 2,781,381,002,400 1.000000 -0.194235


In other words, a house edge of 19.42% (ouch!). Compare this to the 3.50% house edge if winning is not required.

Any comments or disagreements?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Commish
Commish
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July 24th, 2020 at 3:58:27 PM permalink
That is not true at the Florida casinos. It is true at the casinos in Florida at the racetracks.
Wizard
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July 24th, 2020 at 5:24:00 PM permalink
Quote: Commish

That is not true at the Florida casinos. It is true at the casinos in Florida at the racetracks.



Thank you. Has anyone else done the math on it?

I had the raw numbers for it already here.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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