darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 6:13:00 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

It really doesnt matter what you think is logical. Here's what would happen if the situation was observed where I was the Table Games Director. I am generally more reasonable than most and definitely side for the player in all situations that I can. I have never banned a player permanently before and have fought for players to not be banned.

Dealer would be suspended pending investigation.

HR or Casino Attorney would review the situation and determine the outcome.

If no action taken, dealer would receive pay or paid time off for the days missed.

If recommended by investigator, dealer would be fired for colluding with a player to manipulate the spirit of the rules.

If asked, I would have no opinion either way on termination, but would recommend suspension if investigator believes there should be some action taken, but not termination. The only way this would happen at a place I was, would be if I recently took over. It would not be allowed under the rules otherwise.

Player would be asked to not return until investigation complete by Casino Attorney.

I would not call police at any point and would not ban up front.

I would have no opinion either way on charges. That's the Attorneys job.

If asked, I would recommend banning for colluding with a dealer to manipulate rules. Anyone that would do this would take other shots in my opinion and I'd rather not have them as a customer.

I've known about this possibility for years. I personally would never even think about doing this if/when I was not in the business. I dont even let dealers mis-pay me or cashiers over pay me. To me this is not normal AP. I have no problem with normal AP situations. Card counting, hole carding, etc, are issues the casino should be responsible for not allowing to take place if they dont want it to happen. The player is not at fault for trying. Colluding with Staff is different to me.


ZCore13



I do.not agree with your idea about manipulation. Perhaps its just me but in my opinion manipulation would involve something illegal

Making something happen thats WITHIN the stated rules (making an allowed tip wager up to the specified maximum for example) is NOT manipulation. It simply making a large wager the casinos isnt happy with at that moment similar to a sudden large wager by a card counter

When you get in a car and turn on the ignition did you manipulate it? Or it just worked the way its supposed to?

Pulling out wires and connecting them is manipulation. Using your keys is not

Making wagers allowed by the rules is not manipulation either
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 6:16:27 AM permalink
Overall Im of the opinion that casinos WILL do everything they can to stop this but it is not illegal

Ie similar to card counting from the legal perspective
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 6:27:21 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Overall Im of the opinion that casinos WILL do everything they can to stop this but it is not illegal

Ie similar to card counting from the legal perspective



99% of Table Games Supervisors and higher would have no clue what was going on if they saw it happening.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 6:33:22 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

99% of Table Games Supervisors and higher would have no clue what was going on if they saw it happening.


ZCore13



If a table game supervisor saw a player betting $5 and tipping $100 they wouldn’t pull the dealer from the table? Come on.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 7:07:54 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

If a table game supervisor saw a player betting $5 and tipping $100 they wouldn’t pull the dealer from the table? Come on.



Yea they would assume illegailty

They may even believe its some form of money laundering
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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September 10th, 2018 at 7:14:05 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

If a table game supervisor saw a player betting $5 and tipping $100 they wouldn’t pull the dealer from the table? Come on.



If you're a guy, and you set it up with a pretty female dealer, you give the supervision a motive they can shrug off. The guy is trying to impress her; good for him.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 7:34:55 AM permalink
Quote: FinsRule

If a table game supervisor saw a player betting $5 and tipping $100 they wouldn’t pull the dealer from the table? Come on.



That doesn't mean they would know what was going on.

Where I work, $100 toke bets happen just about every night, but the are generally accompanied by $2,000 or $3,000 in main bets.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 7:47:33 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

If you're a guy, and you set it up with a pretty female dealer, you give the supervision a motive they can shrug off. The guy is trying to impress her; good for him.



Yeah I think once. Or twice

Every hand and there isnt any female Im trying to convince that hard

Well, maybe Rihanna. I got a crush on her. But she wouldnt be dealing a card game lol
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 11:03:36 AM permalink
As tips are generally pooled, this seems like a horrible plan.

I would go with a general Conspiracy indictment. It may not hold up in court but players legal fees would discourage repeats.
Ban the player and fire the dealer.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 10th, 2018 at 11:49:12 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

As tips are generally pooled, this seems like a horrible plan.

I would go with a general Conspiracy indictment. It may not hold up in court but players legal fees would discourage repeats.
Ban the player and fire the dealer.



If it is shown to not have a legal basis and the casino does it to repeaters it could wind up with malicious prosecution lawsuit or even a false imprisonment if they hold anyone

Casinos should watch HOW they throw their weight around as has been demonstrated in many cases
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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