Jeopardy Math Question
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 | 1 vote (6.25%) | ||
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| No votes (0%) | |||
| | 9 votes (56.25%) | ||
| | 5 votes (31.25%) |
16 members have voted
June 22nd, 2017 at 5:32:08 PM
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Recently on Jeopardy they had a math category; it was teachers tournament week [not necessarily math teachers]
One in the category was "it's the square root of X^2 - 6X + 9 ?" posed just like that.
I can see the answer given was correct none tried to answer*, but I assumed I could not solve it . I fear this points out pretty clearly my limitations in math, but use spoiler cover if you care to solve it yourself. I'll post the answer given later although surely someone will quickly solve with confidence. I have a question about it once solved.
Vote in the poll, do you too think this was hard for Jeopardy, etc. ?
*correction, one tried to answer and was wrong, two did not try
One in the category was "it's the square root of X^2 - 6X + 9 ?" posed just like that.
I can see the answer given was correct none tried to answer*, but I assumed I could not solve it . I fear this points out pretty clearly my limitations in math, but use spoiler cover if you care to solve it yourself. I'll post the answer given later although surely someone will quickly solve with confidence. I have a question about it once solved.
Vote in the poll, do you too think this was hard for Jeopardy, etc. ?
*correction, one tried to answer and was wrong, two did not try
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Jun 22, 2017
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 22nd, 2017 at 5:37:46 PM
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Not sure how to spoiler and I am horrible at math so I say zxxx
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
June 22nd, 2017 at 5:41:52 PM
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A math teacher at any level isn't qualified for the job if the answer to this question isn't obvious and easy for them. I would have voted easy in general, except I think you meant for the general public.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
June 22nd, 2017 at 5:43:37 PM
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Quote: GWAENot sure how to spoiler and I am horrible at math so I say 2.
GWoAE! learn how to do spoiler, when you answer something, down below there are formatting codes [or hit quote and see how somebody else did it]
the answer given kept an X in it, so '2' would get a buzzer
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 22nd, 2017 at 5:46:08 PM
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Quote: BleedingChipsSlowlyA math teacher at any level isn't qualified for the job if the answer to this question isn't obvious and easy for them. I would have voted easy in general, except I think you meant for the general public.
I usually screw up polls. I mean the usual, general Jeopardy player, not the general public
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 22nd, 2017 at 6:06:00 PM
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x-3
(x-3) squared is x^2 -3x-3x+9
=x^2-6x+9
so square root of that . . .
(x-3) squared is x^2 -3x-3x+9
=x^2-6x+9
so square root of that . . .
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
June 22nd, 2017 at 6:08:25 PM
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Technically, the "correct response" is:
What is the absolute value of (x - 3)?
If x = 1, then x^2 - 6x + 9 = 4, whereas x - 3 = -2; "the" square root invariably refers to the positive value.
Little-known fact: in my day, if you were asked, "What is the square root of 1?" on the SAT, the answer was, "Both 1 and -1", but on the SAT Subject Tests in Mathematics (what used to be called Achievement tests, and then SAT II), the answer was, "1".
What is the absolute value of (x - 3)?
If x = 1, then x^2 - 6x + 9 = 4, whereas x - 3 = -2; "the" square root invariably refers to the positive value.
Little-known fact: in my day, if you were asked, "What is the square root of 1?" on the SAT, the answer was, "Both 1 and -1", but on the SAT Subject Tests in Mathematics (what used to be called Achievement tests, and then SAT II), the answer was, "1".
June 22nd, 2017 at 6:09:52 PM
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Quote: OnceDearToo easy.x-3
Correct.
We should wait for more guesses before a discussion?
Do you think that it was a question that could be easily answered quickly? [as is required by the show of course]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 22nd, 2017 at 7:45:48 PM
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Quote: odiousgambitQuote: OnceDearToo easy.x-3
Correct.
We should wait for more guesses before a discussion?
Do you think that it was a question that could be easily answered quickly? [as is required by the show of course]
I knew at a glance, but I don't think it should have been on a trivia show.
I heart Crystal Math.
June 22nd, 2017 at 8:01:52 PM
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It's really simple algebra --- and no, that's not an oxymoron. For anyone on this site who fancies himself smart enough to win in a casino, this should have been a no-brainer.
Anybody educated enough to get into college should be able to do it in five seconds in his head. And teachers, who are college graduates, shouldn't have any difficulty with it at all. This was a good question for Jeopardy! (This sentence doesn't deserve an exclamation mark, but the name of the show is Jeopardy! so what can I do?)
Anybody educated enough to get into college should be able to do it in five seconds in his head. And teachers, who are college graduates, shouldn't have any difficulty with it at all. This was a good question for Jeopardy! (This sentence doesn't deserve an exclamation mark, but the name of the show is Jeopardy! so what can I do?)
June 22nd, 2017 at 10:51:48 PM
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I highly disagree. Perhaps I am an anomaly.Quote: BobDancerIt's really simple algebra --- and no, that's not an oxymoron. For anyone on this site who fancies himself smart enough to win in a casino, this should have been a no-brainer.
I would also like to add, there are 'AP's' that can run circles around other AP's in math, but they struggle to make any money.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 22nd, 2017 at 11:11:41 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfI highly disagree. Perhaps I am an anomaly.
I would also like to add, there are 'AP's' that can run circles around other AP's in math, but they struggle to make any money.
Not speaking to AP's, but I think I'm pretty decent at understanding mathematical concepts, but I'm terrible at doing any kind of mental math. Embarrassingly enough, even with things like basic addition I'll find myself counting fingers. Maybe I'd be good with an abacus....
Being so bad at mental math always led me to believe I was just "bad at math" through school, but I conceptually understand many math topics just fine. I could write a program to evaluate algebraic expressions no problem, doing them on the fly is a completely different story.
June 22nd, 2017 at 11:18:13 PM
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Quote: AxelWolfI highly disagree. Perhaps I am an anomaly.
I would also like to add, there are 'AP's' that can run circles around other AP's in math, but they struggle to make any money.
I could've answered that jeopardy question correctly many years ago when in high school. I can't remember half of it now.
The only math I like now is $ + $ = more $$$$ 😁
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
June 23rd, 2017 at 2:52:42 AM
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After pondering for a considerable time, it came back to me that I had been taught how to multiply [x+y] * [a+b] at some point, high school I think. So I can see now that [x-3] * [x-3] = X^2 -3x -3x +9 = X^2 -6x +9
I haven't had to multiply something like [x+y] * [a+b] for over 40 years, I truly had forgotten about it. I can't remember having to take the square root of that final product - it seems hard to reverse the process to me.
Unless:
I could see someone spotting the final product and recognizing it now, almost like recognizing immediately the sq root of 144 or 225. For those saying it should have been easy, do you 'just recognize this' or can you quickly do the process of taking the sq rt of something like that?
PS: the teacher who gave the wrong answer came up with 'X + 3' ............... so she had an inkling
I haven't had to multiply something like [x+y] * [a+b] for over 40 years, I truly had forgotten about it. I can't remember having to take the square root of that final product - it seems hard to reverse the process to me.
Unless:
I could see someone spotting the final product and recognizing it now, almost like recognizing immediately the sq root of 144 or 225. For those saying it should have been easy, do you 'just recognize this' or can you quickly do the process of taking the sq rt of something like that?
PS: the teacher who gave the wrong answer came up with 'X + 3' ............... so she had an inkling
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 23rd, 2017 at 3:09:33 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitAfter pondering for a considerable time, it came back to me that I had been taught how to multiply [x+y] * [a+b] at some point, high school I think. So I can see now that [x-3] * [x-3] = X^2 -3x -3x +9 = X^2 -6x +9
I haven't had to multiply something like [x+y] * [a+b] for over 40 years, I truly had forgotten about it. I can't remember having to take the square root of that final product - it seems hard to reverse the process to me.
Unless:
I could see someone spotting the final product and recognizing it now, almost like recognizing immediately the sq root of 144 or 225. For those saying it should have been easy, do you 'just recognize this' or can you quickly do the process of taking the sq rt of something like that?
PS: the teacher who gave the wrong answer came up with 'X + 3' ............... so she had an inkling
I think the question was pretty hard for a tv quiz, where one would expect maybe 50% of the audience to have a decent chance of comprehending the question, let alone answering correctly. I saw that 9 was a nice integral square, x^2 was too and the -6x was divisible by 2. That reminded me how one squares some expression like x+y. From there, I just had to wrestle the minus sign and test the answer that I intuitively knew.
A simpler and fairer question might have been 'The square root of x^2 +2x + 1'
Psalm 25:16
Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
June 23rd, 2017 at 3:42:17 AM
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It took me a few seconds to remember how to reverse-FOIL a quadratic....but I'm also not emerged in this type of math on a daily basis.
Algebra and geometry were my favorite math classes in middle school and high school, from the sense of I could solve most questions mentally/quickly. My damn teacher tried failing my on a test for not showing my work (doesn't help I did most homework and some tests in pen, lol). She said you have to show your work unless it's super easy (ie: you don't have to show how you got from x=2+2 to x=4). I said all the problems seemed easy enough to do without having to write it all down (IE: the question posed in this thread). IIRC, I solved a few questions mentally, I got my A, but still had to show work going forward, which is for the better, at least in further education.
But my favorite math was calculus. Never did too well in it, but it was definitely by far the most interesting and stimulating.
But I swear you learn this algebra stuff in like 6'th grade, though. What two numbers multiply to +9 and add to -6? In this case, both numbers are -3.
Had the question been something like:
x^2 + 6x - 16
You'd get +8 and -2. Being (reduced or extended?), you come up with:
(x-2)(x+8)
I'm surprised none of the contestants could solve the question. How much time did they have?
EDIT: (3 - x) is also a correct answer, as TDG pointed out. I wonder if Alex Trebek would have said that's wrong because "the answer is (x - 3)". That'd have been funny.
Algebra and geometry were my favorite math classes in middle school and high school, from the sense of I could solve most questions mentally/quickly. My damn teacher tried failing my on a test for not showing my work (doesn't help I did most homework and some tests in pen, lol). She said you have to show your work unless it's super easy (ie: you don't have to show how you got from x=2+2 to x=4). I said all the problems seemed easy enough to do without having to write it all down (IE: the question posed in this thread). IIRC, I solved a few questions mentally, I got my A, but still had to show work going forward, which is for the better, at least in further education.
But my favorite math was calculus. Never did too well in it, but it was definitely by far the most interesting and stimulating.
But I swear you learn this algebra stuff in like 6'th grade, though. What two numbers multiply to +9 and add to -6? In this case, both numbers are -3.
Had the question been something like:
x^2 + 6x - 16
You'd get +8 and -2. Being (reduced or extended?), you come up with:
(x-2)(x+8)
I'm surprised none of the contestants could solve the question. How much time did they have?
EDIT: (3 - x) is also a correct answer, as TDG pointed out. I wonder if Alex Trebek would have said that's wrong because "the answer is (x - 3)". That'd have been funny.
Last edited by: RS on Jun 23, 2017
June 23rd, 2017 at 3:57:15 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitAfter pondering for a considerable time, it came back to me that I had been taught how to multiply [x+y] * [a+b] at some point, high school I think. So I can see now that [x-3] * [x-3] = X^2 -3x -3x +9 = X^2 -6x +9
I haven't had to multiply something like [x+y] * [a+b] for over 40 years, I truly had forgotten about it. I can't remember having to take the square root of that final product - it seems hard to reverse the process to me.
Unless:
I could see someone spotting the final product and recognizing it now, almost like recognizing immediately the sq root of 144 or 225. For those saying it should have been easy, do you 'just recognize this' or can you quickly do the process of taking the sq rt of something like that?
PS: the teacher who gave the wrong answer came up with 'X + 3' ............... so she had an inkling
I don't think anyone associates (x^2 -6x + 9) with (x - 3) in the same way many people associate 144 with 12, 225 with 15, 49 with 7, etc. It's more of a "it can be one of these 4 possibilities, time to see which one it is", or however many possibilities may exist. In this case, you know it has to be +3 or -3.
Say it was (x^2 - 5x + 6).
Your options are either 1 & 6, or 2 & 3, and all of their +/- combinations. Because they can be added or subtracted to come up with the respective number.
1-6 = -5, 1*6 = 6. So it's possible.
-3-2 = -5, 3*2 = 6. Also possible.
The answer is (x - 2)(x - 3).
With -6 and -1, they add to -7, which doesn't work. With -6 and +1, they multiply to -6 (not +6), also doesn't work. +6 and +1 also don't work, because they add to 7.
+3 and +2 don't work because they add to +5 (not -5). +3 and -2 don't work because they add to +1. -3 and +2 don't work because they add to -1.
The only one that works is -2 and -3, since they add to -5 and multiply to +6.
So you see the problem and can figure out several different possibilities. Then you need to figure out which possibility is correct. Sorta like multiple choice.
June 23rd, 2017 at 4:10:18 AM
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Quote: RSI'm surprised none of the contestants could solve the question. How much time did they have?
One rang in and gave the wrong answer; she was working it out outloud, then seemed to have no time left. The other two didn't try. I say "seemed" because I don't know when they edit out the dead space. There is plenty of evidence they edit, and I can imagine the show would be too dull if they included all of it when none of the three try. The buzzer seemed to go off quickly while waiting for the other two to answer in this case, for example.
So I think a viewer can't be sure exactly how much time they have. I briefly tried to check for rules with google but have given up. Anybody know the time rules?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 23rd, 2017 at 10:54:55 AM
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Let's take two of the more well-known big Advantage plays. Phil Ivey edge sorting(let's not get bogged down on the outcome or the legality) and Don Johnson's loss rebates. Sure math was needed to understand there was an advantage but even without any calculations, it's painfully obvious there's an advantage(at least to me). Being smart enough to pull it off was the the Advantage play.Quote: IbeatyouracesI could've answered that jeopardy question correctly many years ago when in high school. I can't remember half of it now.
The only math I like now is $ + $ = more $$$$ 😁
Once you understand the basic concept of AP, being creative and imaginative is a huge advantage over the math. If need be, you can easily find someone to do the math. Can you easily find someone to be creative and think outside the box?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
June 23rd, 2017 at 11:09:34 AM
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Quote: AxelWolfLet's take two of the more well-known big Advantage plays. Phil Ivey edge sorting(let's not get bogged down on the outcome or the legality) and Don Johnson's loss rebates. Sure math was needed to understand there was an advantage but even without any calculations, it's painfully obvious there's an advantage(at least to me). Being smart enough to pull it off was the the Advantage play.
Once you understand the basic concept of AP, being creative and imaginative is a huge advantage over the math. If need be, you can easily find someone to do the math. Can you easily find someone to be creative and think outside the box?
What has blown my mind since getting into gambling math .... often times it seems that casino's do not calculate the value of a promotion before offering it.
June 23rd, 2017 at 5:21:18 PM
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If a high school math teacher can't answer it they are criminally underqualified. Other teachers... meh. This is ninth grade math iirc, if you haven't done any real math since high school, I wouldn't hold it against you for having no idea. It's a fair question, a gimme to the math teachers at the worst.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
June 23rd, 2017 at 8:03:48 PM
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Quote: gamerfreakWhat has blown my mind since getting into gambling math .... often times it seems that casino's do not calculate the value of a promotion before offering it.
I think they sorta do calculate the value of the promotion as if everyone plays the same way and nothing changes.
I'm making up numbers here, but let's say in a casino they have $100K in action through slots and $25k in action on VP. Slots are all 10% HE and VP is all 1% HE. So, they are making $10,250 a day in EV. Let's say they decide to give 4% CB on July 4'th. They'd be giving back exactly $5,000 of that $10,250 they make a day. If they expect to triple their amount of action that day from this promotion, then they should make $15,750 instead of $10,250. That's pretty good.
The problem is, that's not what's going to happen. Instead, they'll likely get a few extra people playing slots, so instead of $100k on slots they'll get like $150k on slots. Instead of $25k on VP, they'll get $500k on VP. So now they're making $9k on slots and losing $15k on VP. Overall, they'll be losing $6k for the day.
And if we're lucky -- the guy who thought up this promotion and his boss will agree saying, "The promotion was a success! Instead of $125k of action, we got $650k in action! Sure, we lost on the day, but we're a casino and we have the edge. Several people hit royal flushes today and we ran pretty bad. Let's run this promotion more often, so there's more action, and we make more money!"
June 23rd, 2017 at 8:40:51 PM
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Quote: BobDancer
Anybody educated enough to get into college should be able to do it in five seconds in his head.
I would be willing to wager a large amount of money that less than 50% of college graduates would get that answer correct.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
June 23rd, 2017 at 8:45:27 PM
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Quote: BobDancerThis was a good question for Jeopardy! (This sentence doesn't deserve an exclamation mark, but the name of the show is Jeopardy! so what can I do?)
Should you have ended the sentence with a .?
ie: "This was a good question for Jeopardy!."
@DonSchlesinger
June 24th, 2017 at 3:29:54 AM
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The show title should have been italicized or in quotes, followed by a period.
This was a good question for "Jeopardy!".
This was a good question for "Jeopardy!".
June 24th, 2017 at 9:45:30 AM
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Quote: DRichI would be willing to wager a large amount of money that less than 50% of college graduates would get that answer correct.
Yeah. You're probably right.
I was arguing "should be able to."
You're arguing "can do"
If you're accusing me of overestimating the math ability of most college graduates, I suppose I'll have to plead "no contest."
I still think it's a pretty easy question
June 24th, 2017 at 10:25:55 AM
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Quote: DRichI would be willing to wager a large amount of money that less than 50% of college graduates would get that answer correct.
I agree, most people forget the math they don't really need. Kudos to those who do remember.
June 25th, 2017 at 5:07:13 AM
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Quote: DRichI would be willing to wager a large amount of money that less than 50% of college graduates would get that answer correct.
Let's remember there are many different college majors, with many different specialities. That is what makes the world go around.
There is probably a discussion on an archaeology board somewhere with this: "Anybody educated enough to get into college should understand basic stratigraphy"
Also, kudos to the teacher who attempted to answer the question, we all react differently to the pressure of the bright lights - doesn't mean she didn't know the answer at all -- how many times have I watched Jeopardy!, answered a question quickly, incorrectly, and upon reveal of the answer thought, "that's right" -- and I am at home.
Also, remember if you are not confident you can answer the question correctly, in the short amount of time, an incorrect answer includes lost cash as a prize. So you don't try and answer. Doesn't mean one doesn't know the answer.
It's a fair game show question; it's not fair to question someone's qualification or smarts because they couldn't answer the question on said game show.
