## Poll

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**15 members have voted**

Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.

What did the Wizard suggest? Free beer to the first answer I consider to be correct. As always, no searching and put answers in spoiler tags.

The question for the poll is what do you consider a fair split? Multiple votes allowed.

For those terrified of gluten, the very reasonably priced buffet at Gold Coast has gluten free desserts that are surprisingly tasty.

Hmmm.

Assume each had equal appetite and ate 1/3 of the 8 loaves or 8/3 loaves

Now, Bob had contributed 5 (=15/3) loaves and ate 8/3 so he had given 7/3 loaves to the third guy

Jim had contributed 3(=9/3) loaves but ate 8/3 of them. So he had given 1/3 loaves to the 3rd guy

Thus their contributions had ratio 7 to 1, Bob should receive 7 coins and Jim should receive 1

They should then pool their coins and buy 8 pints of beer

Quote:JoemanYou each ate 2 2/3 loaves, you gluttons. Jim donated 1/3 of a loaf to the stranger, and Bob donated 2 1/3, a ratio of 1:7. Therefore, Jim is due 1 coin and Bob is due 7.

Yes, this is the answer I was looking for. Congratulations!

Nowhere in the problem does it say how many loaves each one ate. The split needs to be based on that.

It reminds me of the time I was proctoring a math contest problem - "On what day of the week will January 1, 2000 be?" (this was asked in 1978) - and gave full credit to anyone whose proof was, "I looked it up in the calendar in the back of the phone book." When the teacher in charge questioned my judgment, I responded, "Nowhere in the problem does it say what day of the week any other day is, and if they have to look that up, then looking up the date for 1/1/2000 is just as valid."

Quote:ThatDonGuy

Nowhere in the problem does it say how many loaves each one ate. The split needs to be based on that.

Fair point. However, if I spelled out that every man ate an equal portion, then an astute reader would know that was pertinent to the problem and focus on bread consumed. I was trying to get the reader to think of that without leading the horse to water. Absent information to the contrary, I think it seems fair to assume they all ate about the same amount.

If you, or anyone, would care to suggest an alternative wording, that doesn't give the answer away, I'm all ears.

I think it's quite unlikely they'd each eat 2 and 2/3'rds loaves. It's more likely that Jim and Bob each ate 3 loaves and the straggler ate 2 loaves. Y'all really thinking one dude's like, "okay so we have a total of 8 loaves and 3 people, that's 2.66 loaves each.....I'll give him 1/3 of one of my loaves and you give him 2 and 1/3 loaves of your bread, that way we'll all have 2 and 2/3'rds loaves to eat!"

It's also likely Bob ate 5 loaves Jim ate 3, because one would only bring enough bread to eat. Doesn't seem like they were expecting the straggler to arrive. The breadless straggler likely was paying off a bet he had lost.

Notice how straggler shows up AFTER they are having a meal. He likely does this often and was told, "go away, this isn't communist Russia! Go get your own darn bread!!"

Quote:RS

Notice how straggler shows up AFTER they are having a meal. He likely does this often and was told, "go away, this isn't communist Russia! Go get your own darn bread!!"

Hammer sickle your way right out of this bread party, mister.

God bless my uncle, God rest his soul.

He taught me well, boys, taught me all I know.

Taught me so well that I grabbed the gold

Left his dead ass there by the side of the road

Bob and Jim were just being kind to the stranger. The payment was unexpected. Neither man being mathematically inclined or giving a damn about proportional consumption much less fractional computational math kept any track of who ate what

Happy they received coins from the stranger they split the money in either of two ways dependent on how much the bread originally cost

A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially

B) if the bread was some weird amount e.g.$2.67 per loaf the 8 coins were split equally because neither Bob nor Jim hav the time nor interest(read intelligence) to do anything different

Anyway those are the real world answers :)

1) bob ate the most because he brought the most

2) Jim ate more than the stranger because Jim brought something and the stranger was just getting a free meal

3) each man ate a whole number loaves of bread

4) all 8 loaves the bread were consumed

The only solution that satisfies all four of those is Bob ate 4, Jim ate 3, stranger ate 1

So it turns out that Jim ate exactly what he brought to the dinner , bob ate four of the five loaves he brought and the stranger ate one of the loaves bob brought. Therefore bob should get all 8 coins.

If only you had posed this question back in April, I would have been able to collect! As it is, there is currently no Vegas trip on my horizon. I will gladly donate my beer to whichever local WoV member is the thirstiest.Quote:WizardYes, this is the answer I was looking for. Congratulations!

Quote:michael99000It is not stated in the question how much each man ate, so I'd make the following assumptions:

Absent information to the contrary, I think it is reasonable to assume they each ate the same amount of bread.

The 8 loaves are community bread and we can eat up to four each -or-

5 of these loaves belong to you, 3 belong to me. I get to eat 3 loaves, you get to eat 5.

There are variations of course: they're different kinds of bread, one bread is more expensive. None of these are stated.

The payment of the 8 coins should be based on the ipso facto arrangement.

If it is the first arrangement, payment is equal (they are one happy commune)

If it is the 2nd arrangement, 5 goes to the person who brought 5 and 3 to the person who brought 3.

Quote:darkoz

A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially

That is exactly my reasoning and what I think is the "real-world-non-mathematician" answer.

It is completely irrelevant who ate how much bread. Bob is in the red financially for the cost of 5 loaves of bread, and Jim is in the red for the proportionate amount for 3 loaves of bread. They should split the coins proportionate to the amount of bread they each brought, not by how much was eaten.

A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner. They agree to split the check

After the check is served the math Wizard says his share of the bill is 1/7 because he ate less food than the AP. He uses a calculator to prove it. The AP says they both should pay equally because they agreed to split the bill

The waitress overhears the argument and suggests they each pay for the cost of their respective orders to settle the argument

Both the Wizard and the AP demand the casino host be contacted so he can pay for the meal as a comp

The casino host agrees to pay for the entire meal if both players gamble over $1000

The Wizard and the AP play the doey dont at Craps

They agree to split the cost of the losses

How much money does the Wizard and the AP split?

Quote:darkozWell here is the average man (non mathematician) answer

Bob and Jim were just being kind to the stranger. The payment was unexpected. Neither man being mathematically inclined or giving a damn about proportional consumption much less fractional computational math kept any track of who ate what

Given that I'm the one asking the question, it can be fairly assumed that both men are perfect logicians and don't mind measuring things to fractional amounts.

Quote:Happy they received coins from the stranger they split the money in either of two ways dependent on how much the bread originally cost

A) if the bread was an easily seen price e.g. $1 per loaf then Bob took $5 since he paid that for the bread while Jim takes $3 making this a free meal for both men ie returning them to being whole financially

What difference does it make what a loaf of bread costs? Given that I'm the one asking the question, you can assume that both men will analyze the problem to death and won't be happy unless they perceive they are paid a fair amount.

Quote:B) if the bread was some weird amount e.g.$2.67 per loaf the 8 coins were split equally because neither Bob nor Jim hav the time nor interest(read intelligence) to do anything different

You also seem to be ignoring the fact that Bob and Jim ate some of the bread. Does it seem fair that they should get paid for bread they ate?

Quote:Anyway those are the real world answers :)

Maybe for most people but not my world.

Quote:darkozHere is another similar question

A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner. They agree to split the check

After the check is served the math Wizard says his share of the bill is 1/7 because he ate less food than the AP. He uses a calculator to prove it. The AP says they both should pay equally because they agreed to split the bill

The waitress overhears the argument and suggests they each pay for the cost of their respective orders to settle the argument

Both the Wizard and the AP demand the casino host be contacted so he can pay for the meal as a comp

The casino host agrees to pay for the entire meal if both players gamble over $1000

The Wizard and the AP play the doey dont at Craps

They agree to split the cost of the losses

How much money does the Wizard and the AP get?

Costs them $13.88 each, in value, to play craps.

Quote:RSCosts them $13.88 each, in value, to play craps.

Correct. So the cost of the dinner end result was $13.88 to each person

Quote:darkozHere is another similar question

A math Wizard and an AP meet for dinner.

This has happened so many times I'm going to make a separate thread for it, but with different assumptions.

Quote:WizardThis has happened so many times I'm going to make a separate thread for it, but with different assumptions.

Always happy to contribute

Quote:darkoz

They agree to split the cost of the losses

How much money does the Wizard and the AP split?

Trick question... they don't split any losses. Since they are a math wizard and an AP, they know to quit while they are ahead!! :D

Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.

What did the Wizard suggest?

---------------

You can take out the "equally hungry" part if you think it is overkill, since "sharing" has been added.

Quote:RogerKintFor those terrified of gluten, the very reasonably priced buffet at Gold Coast has gluten free desserts that are surprisingly tasty.

I always ask for extra gluten when I eat out myself.

the answer seems obvious to me, which means I have the wrong answer.

Quote:AyecarumbaThere were two men, Bob and Jim, havingsharing a meal. Bob brought five loaves of bread, and Jim brought three. Before they started to eat, a third, equally hungry man came and joined them. They together ate the whole eight loaves. As he left, the third man gave the other two men eight coins as a thank you.

Then Bob and Jim began to argue about how to split up the eight coins and could not come to an agreement, except to consult a wise Wizard and do accept whatever division he suggested.

What did the Wizard suggest?

---------------

You can take out the "equally hungry" part if you think it is overkill, since "sharing" has been added.

Quote:michael99000

Therefore bob should get all 8 coins.

OOH! I like this solution even better!

As a matter of fact, I'd actually assume they didn't all eat the same amount because they didn't bring the same amount. If you and I decide to drink together and you bring a case of beer while I bring a six pack, would you assume we both planned on drinking the same amount ?

it will do 'gods' for Götter, and 'spark' for funken, but it seems unlikely it means 'godspark' unless that is like 'goddamn' or something

PS: regular google did better, but the word seems to be connected to 'Ode to Joy' poem by Shiller

first line:

Freude, schöner Götterfunken = Joy, beautiful spark of the gods

Godspark it, explain yourself, Wizard!

Quote:michael99000I don't think there's any way around it. The fact that they all ate exactly the same amount is vital to getting to the answer you are considering the correct one , but is not obvious enough to just expect people to assume. Three people " sharing" a meal does not at all imply they ate the same amount nor does them all eating for the same length of time (everyone eats at their own speed)

As a matter of fact, I'd actually assume they didn't all eat the same amount because they didn't bring the same amount. If you and I decide to drink together and you bring a case of beer while I bring a six pack, would you assume we both planned on drinking the same amount ?

Let's say you and your friends go to Hooters and order a basket of wings. When it comes time to pay the check do you divide it exactly according to how many each person ate?

Quote:odiousgambitFreude, schöner Götterfunken

Yes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.

Quote:WizardYes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.

although it doesn't have that meaning, I think I kind of like it as a new cussword to use!

Quote:WizardYes, it was a reference to Beethoven's 9th symphony, 4th movement. I knew its meaning about as far as you got but was hoping one of our German speaking members could take it a little further.

Our local German expert, Axel. ;-)

Quote:odiousgambitalthough it doesn't have that meaning, I think I kind of like it as a new cussword to use!

Götterfunken is allowed as a curse word here at WoV, I might add.