Mosca
Mosca
Joined: Dec 14, 2009
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September 2nd, 2013 at 3:44:16 PM permalink
Quote: TomG


The first question has already been answered, you just choose to ignore everything humans have learned about physics....




That is his nature, to ignore or reject scientific knowledge in favor of how he feels about the subject.
NO KILL I
TomG
TomG
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
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September 2nd, 2013 at 3:44:26 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

For adults the answer is "Absolutely". Adults that take drugs know or can easily find out the ill effects. They are choosing not to know if they don't. They choose to use them to feel better or try to gain an advantage over others.



But what about the adults that don't choose to ever use them? Aren't we sometimes hurt by living in communities where drug dealing and prisons are such highly profitably businesses?

That may seen off course when talking about drugs in baseball, but it really has a lot of similarities. Fighting a war on weed, cocaine, heroin and crystal meth does not eliminate them. The barriers the war on drugs creates can reduce use, but it also reduced competition among suppliers, making it far more profitable for them. Profits are so high, there is a very strong willingness to protect any interests with violence -- something that hurts everyone no matter what choices we make about our own use

Likewise, barriers from banning drugs in baseball makes it far more profitable for those who do use. Notice that most of the players documented as drug users never failed tests, so there is little chance of suspension. Alex Rodriguez was only caught by the media. Same with Bonds; Clemends was named in the Mitchell Report. How much money did those players make the years they were using drugs?
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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September 3rd, 2013 at 11:15:41 AM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Quote: zippyboy

My argument is that they shouldn't be illegal at all. Any more than vitamins, surgery, eyeglasses or a 6-day workout regimen. You do whatcha gotta do to get ahead. Only the weaker players are crying that it's unfair.



I have no problem if they are legal, other than it ruins the long history, at least in baseball, of the game being played almost exactly the same so stats can be fairly compared. Its historical stats and records that are the victims.


ZCore13



You seem to have a real lapse in memory. When Bonds, Sosa, et. al. were playing and hitting HRs, there was NO testing and PEDs were NOT illegal, therefore, by definition, they were not cheating. The Players Assn. saw to that until public pressure and the quacking media with their junk science screamed for change.

I have no problem with the rules as they are now simply because it is a known fact that certain PED's have been shown to be detrimental to some user's health and well being. They can shorten one's life and mess up body chemistry.

Your hypocrisy is showing.

tuttigym
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 3rd, 2013 at 11:24:21 AM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

Quote: Zcore13

Quote: zippyboy

My argument is that they shouldn't be illegal at all. Any more than vitamins, surgery, eyeglasses or a 6-day workout regimen. You do whatcha gotta do to get ahead. Only the weaker players are crying that it's unfair.



I have no problem if they are legal, other than it ruins the long history, at least in baseball, of the game being played almost exactly the same so stats can be fairly compared. Its historical stats and records that are the victims.


ZCore13



You seem to have a real lapse in memory. When Bonds, Sosa, et. al. were playing and hitting HRs, there was NO testing and PEDs were NOT illegal, therefore, by definition, they were not cheating. The Players Assn. saw to that until public pressure and the quacking media with their junk science screamed for change.

I have no problem with the rules as they are now simply because it is a known fact that certain PED's have been shown to be detrimental to some user's health and well being. They can shorten one's life and mess up body chemistry.

Your hypocrisy is showing.

tuttigym



It's obvious you don't even know the definition of hypocrisy. Steroids, HGH and most of the other items that were taken are against the law to posses/take. They are illegal drugs in the United States. Illegal drug use is against the rules in baseball.

Baseball did not have testing for them, but baseball also does not test for assault or burglary. Those are against the law as well and will get you a suspension, or worse in baseball.

Your argument is totally without merit, your facts don't exist and your posts are just making you look worse each time you attempt to recover from the previous laughable one.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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September 3rd, 2013 at 12:10:36 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

No, I think what Face is saying is that his bat speed INCREASED with his weight training, as bat speed (primarily) and bat weight are the two major factors in being able to hit a home run. Steroids raise the ceiling on weight training and allows your body to heal faster which allows you to train for longer and allows you to become more strong which allows you to increase bat speed and to use a heavier bat which generates home runs.

Pretty simple really.



Again, there is NO science to back up the claim that weight training increases the type of "strength" that might elevate bat speed, and Face cannot know what anyone's bat speed is or was during any given time period or career including his own. As regards using "a heavier bat to generate (more) home runs," that statement is beyond incorrect. www.baseball-reference.com under the category: Equipment Rules states: "Players have gradually adopted lighter bats on the THEORY (emph.) that bat speed rather than weight is the key to hitting the ball hard. ....... The bats used by Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds to break the single season home run record weigh almost a THIRD LESS than those used by Babe Ruth when he set the same record."

Baseball-reference adds: Players changed from bats constructed of ash to maple wood. "Maple is suppose to be more durable than ash, and players BELIEVE (emph) that it is harder and thus able to hit the ball further. The fact that Barry Bonds was among the first players to use a maple bat contributed to their popularity in the early 2000's."

Pretty simple really when one checks the facts from a RELIABLE reference.

tuttigym
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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September 3rd, 2013 at 12:30:12 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I think there's something more to the PEDs, and that is that for players to stay competitive with users, they have to use themselves. A player shouldn't have to risk his health beyond what is expected of the sport in order to be on a fair field. At least when you play at Fenway, the dimensions are the same for both teams. We're seeing it right now, with current players turning against users because they don't want to jack themselves.



Believe it or not, I was young once. And too many young men live and die by their ability to compete in sports. Steroid use is far too tempting to young men who will risk today and to hell with tomorrow !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
tuttigym
tuttigym
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September 3rd, 2013 at 12:30:37 PM permalink
Quote: Face



I sure can't. But when you see 170lb Barry, whose spent his whole life acquiring and maintaining his peak performance, all of the sudden gain 70lbs and start jacking balls deep, and has been proven to use PEDs,... to quote boymimbo - "Pretty simple actually."



Face, you too, are factually challenged regarding BB's weight.

1986-1990 BB's listed weight was 185
1991-1996 BB's listed weight was 190
1997-1998 BB's listed weight was 206
1999-2000 BB's listed weight was 210
2001-2007 BB's listed weight was 228

He was never 170 lbs or 240 lbs.

Furthermore, you or anyone else, to my knowledge, cannot breakdown his body fat content during those years.

The reference material quoted is from a site called the Evolution of Barry Bonds.

The only thing that is "pretty simple" is your inability to relay the straight scoop.

tuttigym
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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September 3rd, 2013 at 12:54:31 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13



It's obvious you don't even know the definition of hypocrisy. Steroids, HGH and most of the other items that were taken are against the law to posses/take. They are illegal drugs in the United States. Illegal drug use is against the rules in baseball.

Baseball did not have testing for them, but baseball also does not test for assault or burglary. Those are against the law as well and will get you a suspension, or worse in baseball.

Your argument is totally without merit, your facts don't exist and your posts are just making you look worse each time you attempt to recover from the previous laughable one.

ZCore13



The listed PED's above are NOT controlled substances and may be used via prescription. Clandestine possession and use are NOT against the law because if that were the case those testing positive would be prosecuted and penalized by the law as well as by MLB. To my knowledge, current perpetrators who are users are penalized by MLB only. Those who are dispensing the chemicals w/o prescriptions or proper licencing are committing the felonies.

Your analogy above does not need baseball "testing." Those folks are prosecuted and summarily punished for those illegal acts a la Aaron Hernandez or Denny McClain or Otis Nixon, etc. No amount of foolish rhetoric can hide the folley of your posts.

tuttigym
tuttigym
tuttigym
Joined: Feb 12, 2010
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September 3rd, 2013 at 12:59:04 PM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

Tuttigym's next topic... Water doesn't get you wet



Everybody knows H2O gets one wet not water. Water is a PED which allows one to go beyond their basic physical limitations and perform at an enhanced level.

tuttigym
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 3rd, 2013 at 1:02:01 PM permalink
Quote: tuttigym

The listed PED's above are NOT controlled substances and may be used via prescription. Clandestine possession and use are NOT against the law because if that were the case those testing positive would be prosecuted and penalized by the law as well as by MLB. To my knowledge, current perpetrators who are users are penalized by MLB only. Those who are dispensing the chemicals w/o prescriptions or proper licencing are committing the felonies.

Your analogy above does not need baseball "testing." Those folks are prosecuted and summarily punished for those illegal acts a la Aaron Hernandez or Denny McClain or Otis Nixon, etc. No amount of foolish rhetoric can hide the folley of your posts.

tuttigym



Wow you amaze me more and more each post. In the U.S., anabolic steroids are currently listed as Schedule III controlled substances under the Controlled Substances Act, which makes simply possessing such substances without a prescription, first offense, a federal crime punishable by up to one year in prison.

How are you going to twist this mistake on your part? Nevermind... You are not longer worth discussing this with. This is my last post on the subject.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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