Casino Ethics: Cheques
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Poll
 | 22 votes (88%) | ||
| | 3 votes (12%) |
25 members have voted
Argument for yes:
They are easier to use to count, stack, and process
Handling that much cash would lead to dishonest behavior
Arguments for no:
They don't want the player to realize they are gambling with real money
They want the gambler playing a higher bet (e.g. there are no $20 cheques, they are $25)
It is easier to color up a winning player to get them betting with higher denominations
Other arguments?
Quote: kpAre casinos ethical with the use of cheques?
Argument for yes:
They are easier to use to count, stack, and process
Handling that much cash would lead to dishonest behavior
Arguments for no:
They don't want the player to realize they are gambling with real money
They want the gambler playing a higher bet (e.g. there are no $20 cheques, they are $25)
It is easier to color up a winning player to get them betting with higher denominations
Other arguments?
There thumb are $20 cheques that are used in Baccarat for the Banker bet and that could be used to track $20 Buy bets thumb in Craps.
It's ethical because the casino can't operate using straight cash on all its games.
Quote: NowTheSerpentThere thumb are $20 cheques that are used in Baccarat for the Banker bet and that could be used to track $20 Buy bets thumb in Craps.
Lots of places use $20 cheques in pai gow and pai gow poker as well. It forces betting in increments that make the vig easy to calculate and pay.
Cheques serve more purpose than "making people forget they are gambling with real money." If you forget that, well the fool and his money are lucky enough to get together in the first place. When I deal the monte carlo nights we sometimes use chips and sometimes "play money." I *HATE* using play money. You cannot count it as easily, you can't size in to pay off. It doesn't stack easily. It is easy for it to blow all over the place. Cash takes up more room on the layout. In real casinos, cash presents control problems.
Many reasons to use cheques.
It is ethical for games to have a reasonable house edge as approved by gaming authorities.
It is not ethical for the casino or the players to cheat.
There are three things wrong with the term in my view. For one, 99% of the world know them as "chips", as in poker chips - I've never heard the term "poker cheques". Secondly, I would expect the American spelling to be "Checks" and not "Cheques", as in a checkbook. Thirdly, "chips" is faster and easier to spell (in terms of placement of the letters on a keyboard). So what gives?
I thought it was strange when I first started too, this weird "cheques" deal. But now I thinks of "checks" as something you write and "chips" as something you eat. Calling them anything but cheques seems bizarre to me.
Quote: cardsharkWhy are you guys using the term "cheques"???
There are three things wrong with the term in my view. For one, 99% of the world know them as "chips", as in poker chips - I've never heard the term "poker cheques". Secondly, I would expect the American spelling to be "Checks" and not "Cheques", as in a checkbook. Thirdly, "chips" is faster and easier to spell (in terms of placement of the letters on a keyboard). So what gives?
Day 1 of dealer class we were told, "Call them 'cheques.' 'Chips' are for bingo cards. We call them cheques because like a check, they represent a cash value."
Simple as that--cheque is the proper term. Can't say why the euro-spelling is preferred, maybe to avoid confusion with a paper check when writing it out?
I don't think there is any basis for considering it "unethical" for casinos to use them for the table games. To do otherwise would be inconvenient for most everyone and would basically be silly.
Quote: DocIt is my understanding that "chips" is the proper term for the ones that do not have an imprinted value, such as the ones at the roulette table, ones in home sets, or ones sometimes used in tournaments that may have different values at different times.
If you care to know, "cheques" is also the term used for Roulette or tourney BJ play, they just have the distinction of "non-value cheques" (although "non value" to us means expressly Roulette, whereas we call the BJ tourney cheques, um, "tourney cheques" ;) And by "us" I mean specifically my place, not necessarily "the industry". Maybe others can comment...)
I call home sets "chips" because I rarely play with industry people, and non casino people never hear of "cheques". When in rome, and all that...
Bingo is always chips, or at least that's the way I've always known it. I don't have much professional Class II experience, but I played tons of Bingo with my gram when she was alive and I've never heard them called otherwise.
Same with Poker, I don't have the professional experience, but I've never heard them called anything but "chips".
He doesn't say "chip change", does he?
Quote: kpArguments for no:
They don't want the player to realize they are gambling with real money
That isn't it at all. In the old OLD days, when roulette first
started, they only used cash. Any cash, from any country.
It was a nightmare. They ususally averaged 3 spins an
hour because of the arguments that happened on every
spin about who bet what. There were men who made a living
by falsely claiming bets they never made. So cheques were
invented and it sped up the game tremendously. Can you
imagine a layout covered in paper money and gold and
silver coins, so that the board itself was almost invisible?
And having to figure the payouts?
Casinos can keep cash in the cashiers cage and vault and bank account and customers can physically handle cheques which are more tactile than scraps of similar paper currencies.
Quote: DJTeddyBearHaven't you ever heard a dealer call out "cheque change" ?
He doesn't say "chip change", does he?
Actually, I always thought "check change" was short for "pit boss, come check that I gave this guy the right amount of change".
Every other time I've heard dealers talk about chips, they refer to them as chips.
Also, if you do a search on google images for "casino cheques", less than half of the results are actual pictures of chips. Of course, if you google "casino chips", virtually all results are images of chips.
I think we all agree that most players refer to them as chips, and probably do not know the term "cheques". I now understand that they were at some point in history commonly referred to as cheques. I am a little perplexed why industry experts continue to use the archaic term, but its not really a big deal. I'm not in the industry so I can accept that those who are use a different term. Thanks for the info guys.
Quote: FaceIf you care to know, "cheques" is also the term used for Roulette or tourney BJ play, they just have the distinction of "non-value cheques" ...
... with Poker, I don't have the professional experience, but I've never heard them called anything but "chips".
Face, thanks for the clarification. I'm a little confused on the poker issue, perhaps since I have only played poker in a casino two or maybe three times. Aren't the poker "chips" identical to the casino "cheques"? Why do they change name when moved into another room?
As for the other topic of cheques/chips being used "unethically" by casinos that don't want players to think of them as real money, I am reminded of the very first cruise I went on back in 1976. That was before the cruise ships operated like now -- these days you have a room key with a magnetic stripe that serves as your on-board credit card. It was also before the days that ATMs were everywhere. Cruise ship passengers brought travelers' checks and cashed them at the purser's desk/cage, and we used cash for everything purchased on board or on shore. On that first ship, the purser only issued crisp, new, U.S. currency, usually in the highest denomination appropriate for the transaction. Some of my fellow passengers laughed that it was like having Monopoly money and that we weren't supposed to think of it as real. Same idea as the concept of chips-aren't-real-money, but I guarantee you that I thought of those crisp currency notes as real money, and I do with the chips/cheques, too. (Perhaps that's why I'm only willing to collect the $1 variety as souvenirs.)
Quote: DocSome of my fellow passengers laughed that it was like having Monopoly money and that we weren't supposed to think of it as real. Same idea as the concept of chips-aren't-real-money, but I guarantee you that I thought of those crisp currency notes as real money, and I do with the chips/cheques, too. (Perhaps that's why I'm only willing to collect the $1 variety as souvenirs.)
Funny, I regard chips as more real money than actual real money :)
Consider. Chips are heavy, substantial and you can't help but notice them if you're carrying them. Paper notes (ie real money) are less substantial and you can't help not noticing them when you're carrying them.
Maybe that explains why when playing poker for ultra-low stakes, I still take the game seriously. The lot of chips we used might represent only $3 per person, but even the one we valued at $0.10 is more "real" than a $20 note, or so it feels to me anyway.
Wasn't there a thread about making cash bets at the tables?
I think a lot of people made similar comments when they first changed the design after having it unchanged for so many years.Quote: DocSome of my fellow passengers laughed that it was like having Monopoly money ...
Quote: DocI usually refer to the ones I collect as "chips", but I do accept that either "checks" or "cheques" is the proper term. Not sure which is really right. It is my understanding that "chips" is the proper term for the ones that do not have an imprinted value, such as the ones at the roulette table, ones in home sets, or ones sometimes used in tournaments that may have different values at different times.
Home and tournament "chips" with numerals but no "$" are sometimes referred to as "jetons" (like the counting stones used on an abacus).
Quote: DocI usually refer to the ones I collect as "chips", but I do accept that either "checks" or "cheques" is the proper term. Not sure which is really right. It is my understanding that "chips" is the proper term for the ones that do not have an imprinted value, such as the ones at the roulette table, ones in home sets, or ones sometimes used in tournaments that may have different values at different times.
I don't think there is any basis for considering it "unethical" for casinos to use them for the table games. To do otherwise would be inconvenient for most everyone and would basically be silly.
Quote: DocFace, thanks for the clarification. I'm a little confused on the poker issue, perhaps since I have only played poker in a casino two or maybe three times. Aren't the poker "chips" identical to the casino "cheques"? Why do they change name when moved into another room?
No problem, Doc. Our Poker Room, both back in the day when it was located inside our Class III casino and now when it is inside our Class II facility, has always used it's own value cheques with it's own design so I can't comment on your second question. If some do use the same cheques for both Table Games and Poker, I'd guess it's just a traditional vernacular thing.
And cardshark, it's definately "cheque change", as in a declaration of changing cheques, not a request of inspection. I couldn't tell you why, I just know it is...
Perhaps two friends, Jack and Jacques, can pose a chips vs cheques "Ask the Wizard" question ;)
Quote: FacePerhaps two friends, Jack and Jacques, can pose a chips vs cheques "Ask the Wizard" question ;)
In Spanish that word, pronouncing the "e" at the end, means "check" as in an instrument to transfer money from a bank account. This has odd consequences, as I can't see the word and not think of my checkbook or a cashier's check. But if I hear it, which would be pronounced as "check," I'd have no trouble. Since I read mroe about gambling than hear about it, though, I prefer to gow ith "chips."
Normally Spanish doesn't intrude in my English that way. I think the reason in this case is that I regularly handle lots of checks over a normal week.
