Ideal bet size and game to play with a 500 bankroll

Hello there! this is my first post, im from Mexico and love Las Vegas , anyway Im planning a trip to Las Vegas in december, ive been there twice before: the first time i lost all my bankroll playing like a fool three card poker, blackjack and let ir ride, but recovered some money playing texas hold em. The second time i visited i did really well at Let it ride and three card poker, but didnt have much success at blackjack (All the success thanks to the strategy advice i found at the Wizard of odds, so thank you very much!) and didnt play texas hold em (I felt there was too much pressure last time, many good players and what not). Now im studying hard to really use the best strategies for blackjack, three card poker and let it ride which are my favourite games and maybe play some texas. My question is this, if i have a bankroll of USD 500.00 and i would like to play say 12 hours total, (I will be there 4nights, but plan to go clubbing and to some shows as well) what would be the game id have the best shot to double my bankroll and what size would my bets have to be? Im not sure if all of this matters or not to the final outcome but it is a doubt Ive had for a few days...

First of all let me say that "clubbing and shows" will put a dent in your wallet, your alertness levels and your sleep patterns. So don't think this will not have an effect on your gambling. It will. Also if you are out late dancing the night away etc., you are likely to sleep until it is later in the day. If you do your gambling earlier in the day there may be advantages such as lower table limits than later at night when things get crowded and table limits tend to get raised in many casinos. So perhaps do your gambling and then do your clubbing and shows and your final two nights?

Second. You are supposed to have fun, so to an extent the question is what games do you most enjoy. However if you look at the House Edge and variance data that is provided by the Wizard at his other site, Wizard of Odds, you will see that you may have to choose between your favorite game and your expectations of wining.

Now most tables about Risk of Gambler's Ruin will show you the number of units you will need to have a 90 percent chance of avoiding losing your entire bankroll due to Lady Variance having frowned upon you rather than smiled upon you. You should also consider the speed at which the game is played.

I would think that your best bet would be Blackjack provided you found a 3:2 table at which the game was rather slow but I'll wait for the math-types to chime in here with more sound opinions and data to back them up.

Welcome aboard. I promise not to have too much math here, since I don't think it will help.

An important question is how good are you, really? The table games all have optimal strategies. And some players are naturally better at hold 'em than others. The mistakes you make will come out of your pocket.

Assuming you're decent/good and not a prodigy in training, these would be my recommendations:

* Stay away from blackjack on the Strip. The playable games there are mostly $10 minimums and up, which is a stretch on a $500 bank. Downtown and off-strip casinos have decent games and $5 minimum tables.

* You can probably find $5 minimums on the sucker games at certain Strip casinos at certain times, but I don't recommend them on principle. The house edge is too high for my tastes.

* 2-4 and 3-6 LHE is within your reach, maybe 4-8 if you're playing against rocks and know when to get out of their way. Those games are easy enough to find, though maybe not at the fanciest joints.

* You could probably get away with 1-2 NL, though .50-1 with a buy-in of $100 or less would be better. The former is everywhere, and you can find the latter here and there.

* If you must have cheap seat time, the best bet is a cheap tournament or two (or more). You'll probably bust out quickly, but your chances of cashing eventualy are fair (assuming you're a decent player) and you'll get valuable tournament experience, if that's of value to you down the line.

* One way to double up would be to find a 5-10 NL game (the fancier joints have this one), buy in for everything, play real snug, and shove at the first opportunity. Not much fun, and a real high wire act, but with a little luck, someone will double you up.

* Another way to double up is to bet it all on don't pass at craps. Your odds are almost 50-50; the downside being if you don't double up, you're out of bankroll. And then what are you going to do?

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks for the advice! I will change my plans to make sure im well rested and focused before i start gambling. Im definietly not a prodigy in training, rather im a decent player with a good grasp of the basic strategy for the games i mentioned and still learning.

As for the question itself, fremont4ever did understand what i was trying to ask (thank you very much for your answer) but i realized that the whole wording of my question was very poor, and that i rambled too much, so i would like to rephrase my question: With a bankroll of 500 what would be a good size of bets to play Blakcjack, three card poker or craps? Should i play only 5 per bet, 10 per bet, maybe even lower bets? should i just stay off those games and stick to the NL tables with the lowest minimums? I like all of those games so the decision would be only about the money and the time i would be playing

Why not try a few poker tournaments ? Lots of action, low cost per hour overall, and hell, you might even win !!

What are you trying to do?

Advantage Play for money?
Advantage Play for comps?
Have as much fun feeling like a badass gambler as possible?
Lose as little money as possible at negative EV games?

Quote: vcbowser

With a bankroll of 500 what would be a good size of bets to play Blackjack?

In order to play exactly four hours of Blackjack with a 500 dollar bankroll and exactly perfect Basic Strategy play at a table with five players and a dealer and waitress who receive no tips from you whatsoever, your bet should be $12.82 if you wish to have exactly a ten percent risk of Gambler's Ruin.

Now obviously ain't no casino in the world gonna let you bet no 12.82 in that circle, so just make it ten dollars and throw a few tips to the dealer and the waitress now and then. Works out to pretty much the same thing and you will have more fun.

For Craps you can have Four Hours of play at 25.00 a Pass Line bet but would have to do only pass line bets and the rate of play would have to be the exact statistical average they use in their comp computers and again, you would have to never tip the dealers or tip the cocktail waitress. If you want to cross over to the Dark Side or tip the waitress and dealers, you would have to drop your bet to 20.00 but you will find that more fun anyway.

Note: If you do four hours of craps at 25.00 and also demonstrate to the dealers that you know the primary purpose of the game is to tip the dealers, most places will consider you in the running for a room comp, so dropping down to 20.00 has a serious consequence since many casinos have a comp system that would make a 20.00 bettor invisible, but a 25.00 bettor visible. This is a minor consideration perhaps but one free night in the room would give you a bit more funds to go clubbing with.

Fleastiff: Do you know what he should he do if he wants to play progressive slots with the same bankroll??

I'm really asking for myself as I'm heading to vegas in a couple weeks with the same bankroll and am wondering how to make it last the longest on the slots.

Quote: shaferdaniel

I'm heading to Vegas with the same bankroll and am wondering how to make it last the longest on the slots.

Simple. Just put it on the slot machine rather than into the slot machine. Should last pretty long that way, as long as you keep watching it.

All joking aside: here are the figures:

For Four Hours of Slots you would have to bet thirty-three cents per spin if your bankroll is 500.00.
For One Hour of Slots you would have to bet Eighty-Four cents per spin if your bankroll is 500.00.

I don't know of any such slot machines that would allow you to do this, however.

Perhaps the best thing you could do is learn a table game in the interim.

thank you for this - i know bj and have played for years but am bringing my girl this trip. its her first time to the meadows and she wants no part of table games. see how love drags you down!?

one more question on slots, this one on variance:

i know slots are random and designed to return only ~95%. but if a machine goes on an obvious losing streak and returns only 75% for an hour, would it THEORETICALLY be more likely to return higher than 95% the next hour? something closer to 115% which would probably be realized in a bonus, perhaps?

(I get Gambler's Ruin and how quickly each game grinds you down. I get that even AP's can barely make money. The only reason to play, in my mind, is to go to Vegas and hope you get lucky. So I'm interested in LUCK, aka LADY VARIANCE, and am trying to understand the variance of slots versus the table games in an hour of play.)

The outcome of each spin has no impact on the outcome of future spins. The reason that the actual results converge upon the theoretical results is because with each trial the denominator grows and the effect of a particular win or loss has less effect on the ratio. Example:


You play 10 spins at $1/each, and lose $2.50 (75% return).
You then play 100 more spins at $1/each, and lose $5.00 (95% return)

You've now played a total of 110 spins and lost $7.50, for a return of 93.2%. At no point were you ever playing a positive EV game (in fact you lost even more money), yet the return approached the theoretical return even after a losing streak.

I don't even know if the casinos keep track of short term performance. Players want to hit a streak of wins and then go home but all the casino cares about is that the random number generator is properly installed and the machine looks clean and attractive to passersby. Slot auditors work for casinos but I'm not sure if they focus on results or on chips-installed.

got it kmcd, thanks. i think i'm going to move on to craps!

Quote: FleaStiff

In order to play exactly four hours of Blackjack with a 500 dollar bankroll

The question was for 12 hours.

Doubling a bankroll and playing for several hours are two opposing goals when playing games with a house edge. The best chance of doubling a bankroll is placing one even money bet with the whole bankroll (i.e. craps pass/don't). To get lots of time at a table will slowly grind away at your bankroll unless you get on a lucky streak.