PowerSupplyGuy
• Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 21, 2024
July 21st, 2024 at 10:00:38 AM permalink
Hello,

I apologize if this is been asked already but on your basic strategy charts for Spanish 21 S17 it says to hit soft 20 and 21 with six or more cards against the dealers 10. I don't see this in Katrina Walker's book, is this correct?

-PowerSupplyGuy
Dieter
• Posts: 5717
Joined: Jul 23, 2014
July 21st, 2024 at 10:12:58 AM permalink
Does a 6+ card 21 have a payout bonus?
May the cards fall in your favor.
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 21st, 2024 at 10:50:06 AM permalink
If you have 21 you get paid automatically so I assume the hand is dead already. I tried to ask a dealer and pit boss about that and they were perplexed that anybody would hit or double down on a soft 21 and said "no".
PowerSupplyGuy
• Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 21, 2024
July 21st, 2024 at 12:23:11 PM permalink
Yes it pays 3:1. So if I understand the math correctly, if I were to hit soft 21 the odds of getting a 10 are 4/12 then multiply that by 3/1 to get a gain of 1 which is the same as just leaving the 21 as it was.

What about hitting soft 20 with 6+ ? Not too sure about the math there.

-psg
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 21st, 2024 at 1:04:52 PM permalink
My Spanish 21 strategy card doesn't include values for 18+. It says to hit if I have 17 against an 8, 9, 10 if I have 6+ cards already. Hit with 16 against a 3, 4 with 6+ cards, and against a 2 with 5+ cards. Hit with 15 against 5, 6 with 6+ cards and against 2, 3, 4 with 5+ cards. Hit with 14 against 5 with 5+ cards, and against 4, 6 with 4+ cards. It says to surrender a 17 against an Ace.
It also says to double down rescue on 12-16 vs 8, 9, 10, A and 17 vs A.

I inadvertently left out the soft values in this post. The last time I made a Spanish 21 chart was Nov. 2020. Seeing the link below, I should update for Stand on 17 or Hit on 17 tables charts. I've only recently started playing on a real Spanish 21 table, just a little bit. People do what they want and don't follow any chart because they don't remember any chart, they have maybe a vague memory of a chart. They'd rather bet on Match the Dealer. I left my chart on the table and the pit kicked it off. So I have to keep it in my shirt pocket for when I come to a hand I don't remember so well.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Jul 21, 2024
PowerSupplyGuy
• Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 21, 2024
July 21st, 2024 at 6:50:34 PM permalink
So, here's the link I was referring to (no direct links, enter the dot before the com)

wizardofodds com/games/spanish-21/

Down in the S17 charts under the 'SOFT' section the last row reads "19-21" and there is one S6

In the same section under H17 the last row reads "19" which makes sense to me.

Is the S17 'SOFT" "19-21" row a typo?

-psg
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 21st, 2024 at 8:17:36 PM permalink
I had a question about doubling with a soft 20 with 6 cards already and pulling an Ace for a 21, but line 9 says:
A five-card 21 pays 3 to 2, a six-card 21 pays 2 to 1, a seven or more card 21 pays 3 to 1. Bonus not honored after doubling.
Line 10 says the same:
A 6-7-8 or 7-7-7 of mixed suits pays 3 to 2, of the same suit pays 2 to 1, and of spades pays 3 to 1. These bonuses do not pay after doubling.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/spanish-21/
aceside
• Posts: 544
Joined: May 14, 2021
July 21st, 2024 at 9:20:42 PM permalink
This part can be easily calculated. If you specify your question a little better, I will give you the answer.

If you get a 21, your hand is paid immediately, according to the number of cards in your hand.
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 22nd, 2024 at 9:00:26 AM permalink
I'm updating my regular BJ charts from 4 years ago with these Stand or Hit on Soft 17 charts from the Wizard's site. I'll put them into excel sheets and screenshot them and miniaturize them (2.67" X 4") in Irfanview and print them and tape them onto 3" X 5" index cards and wrap them in clear mailing tape.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/4-decks/

I had been using a Basic Strategy chart I had from the 1990's. I had charts for card counters I made back then but I must have misplaced them. I'm sure they're around somewhere, but I did misplace them. I don't count cards anyway so it's not a priority for me.
DRich
• Posts: 12104
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
July 22nd, 2024 at 1:07:20 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I'm updating my regular BJ charts from 4 years ago with these Stand or Hit on Soft 17 charts from the Wizard's site. I'll put them into excel sheets and screenshot them and miniaturize them (2.67" X 4") in Irfanview and print them and tape them onto 3" X 5" index cards and wrap them in clear mailing tape.
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/4-decks/

I had been using a Basic Strategy chart I had from the 1990's. I had charts for card counters I made back then but I must have misplaced them. I'm sure they're around somewhere, but I did misplace them. I don't count cards anyway so it's not a priority for me.

Make sure your strategy charts are for the number of decks you are playing. The chart you included is for four decks which very few if any US casinos use.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 22nd, 2024 at 2:31:39 PM permalink
It says 4 to 8 decks for the chart(s). I'm running across 6 decks in my area.
PowerSupplyGuy
• Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 21, 2024
July 22nd, 2024 at 3:34:50 PM permalink
Sure, the question is:

In Spanish 21 when I have soft 20 with 6 cards is the correct play hit or stand?

Assuming S17 with the rules listed on the Wizard's site (7 card 21 pays 3 to 1)

-psg
ChumpChange
• Posts: 4997
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
July 22nd, 2024 at 3:50:33 PM permalink
According to the Wizard's chart, the correct play is to hit and not to double down. People will say that the dealer is a magician and will hit 21 regardless so try to hit 21 before him. Others will say it pays two extra wins if you get an Ace, or you win even money with a face. You could wind up taking 3 more cards trying to score an 11 for the 21 though. Still others are free to disregard the chart at their choosing and take their chances with the 20 they have and maybe they'll tie or get beat but hopefully they'll win but they won't have a 21 so they won't get the bonus and will get paid even money if they win.
DRich
• Posts: 12104
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
July 22nd, 2024 at 4:10:01 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

It says 4 to 8 decks for the chart(s). I'm running across 6 decks in my area.

The only reason I brought that up was because when I started playing the charts were for double deck games and I was playing that strategy against all number of decks.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
aceside
• Posts: 544
Joined: May 14, 2021
July 23rd, 2024 at 12:07:01 AM permalink
Quote: PowerSupplyGuy

Sure, the question is:

In Spanish 21 when I have soft 20 with 6 cards is the correct play hit or stand?

Assuming S17 with the rules listed on the Wizard's site (7 card 21 pays 3 to 1)

-psg

When player encounters a 6-card soft 20 vs. 10, basic strategy is Stand.

However, I have never encountered such a situation during my 3+ years of playing. Players should forget about this hit/stand decision for this hand.
PowerSupplyGuy