JacobOh93
JacobOh93
Joined: Jan 10, 2023
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January 10th, 2023 at 11:07:59 AM permalink
Hi everyone,

Iíve got a question in regards to basic strategy for blackjack in Singapore MBS casino.

The rules are as follows
1) only lose original bet if banker gets a blackjack
2) banker stand of soft 17
3) BJ pays 3:2
4) 6 decks on continuous shuffle machine
5) double on any first 2 cards. Able to double on split cards too
6) split up to 3, making 4 hands in total
7) No resplitting of aces or hitting on split aces
8) No hole card for dealer ( dealer gets 2nd card after all players have made their play )
9) Surrender on dealer 2 - 10 except ace


Ive tried wizard of odds calculator and on CSM house advantage comes to 0.40622% I presume with using the basic strategy calculator base on rules above.

However after further research, another site calculator shows a slight vary of House advantage of 0.28% with their basic strategy.

It does not differs much with the only difference with hard 16 / pair of 8 against dealer 10.

On wizard basic strategy it states either surrender if not hit.
However on the other strategy it states either surrender if not stay.

Iíve also used wizards per hand calculator and came up with slight difference in answer, some stating stay or hit.

Additionally I like to play 2 hands instead of 1 hand, not sure if this makes a difference.
Question is, what is the optimal playing decision for 16 against 10 for such rules?

Additionally, if the table is only loose original bet against banker bj, wouldnít it be wiser to split aces against dealer ace?

Lastly I would like to thank wizard for his website and guidance of making me a better bj player

Thank you :)
P3t3rP3n
P3t3rP3n
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March 25th, 2023 at 10:40:16 AM permalink
Hello Jacob,

Although I´m not the wizard, I know a LOT about Blackjack. I am a blackjack dealer for more than 20 years. Moreover I have studied the game intensively.

The rules in Singapore MBS casino you mention are clear, with exception to the first rule. "Only loose original bet if banker gets a blackjack" means that the house is playing with the "two cards rule", that is the dealer gets one card open and one card closed. The dealer peaks at the hole card in case the house could have a blackjack. Is that the case, then the dealer takes all bets away (except blackjack for a player) immediately. However in your summary of rules you mention that there´s NO hole card for the dealer. So the dealer gets one open card, just like the European rules. In that case you can double and split, but you loose all those additional bets when the house eventually gets a blackjack!

Conclusion: Your first rule must be: "Player loses only original bet against dealer BJ: NO!" If you then calculate your strategy on the Wizard of Odds house edge calculator there is a house advantage of 0,43541%. Other sites are sometimes worse in counting the house edge. Stick with the Wizard of Odds!

Knowing you can loose additional bets (when you split and/or double) it makes sense to NOT split aces against a dealer ace. What you do for 16 against 10 does not really matter, because the difference in expectation for hitting or standing is soooo small. That being said, if you really want to cut the house edge as far down as you can: always hit 16 against 10 when you have 16 with 2 cards, and always stand on 16 against 10 when you have 16 with 3+ cards.

Hopefully I have helped you in some way. Good luck at the tables!

P3t3r P3n
It´s not enough to be lucky, you´ve got to be good!
billryan
billryan
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March 25th, 2023 at 11:13:05 AM permalink
In regards to 16 vs 10;

If you are playing at a full table, scan the other hands for 4s and 5s. If there are two or more out on the table, I stand. Otherwise I hit.
I generally only played two decks so the auto shuffle weakens that a bit.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
aceside
aceside
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March 25th, 2023 at 4:16:50 PM permalink
Quote: JacobOh93

Ive tried wizard of odds calculator and on CSM house advantage comes to 0.40622% I presume with using the basic strategy calculator base on rules above.

link to original post


Where is the Wizardís calculator for the house edge of a dealer no-hole-card game? He has an online calculator, but that is only for American games with a dealer hole card.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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March 26th, 2023 at 3:49:53 AM permalink
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/
The phrase used is whether you only lose the original bet. It doesn't matter whether the dealer peeks beforehand or at the conclusion of the hand, if you can only lose the original bet - the difference is they would track your bets, e.g. leave a bust hand in play, and only take one bet on a BJ.
aceside
aceside
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March 26th, 2023 at 7:08:51 AM permalink
Thank you for the link. I agree with what you said above but would like to add a little more on the difference between these two games.

Firstly, let us fix this particular rule, player only loses the original bet upon a dealer BJ. Secondly, let us look at the consequences of not taking a dealer hole card. Player cannot surrender to a dealer upcard of Ace anymore, and this consequence alone will increase the house edge. However, player can surrender to a dealer upcard of Ten even with the potential of getting a BJ later, and this consequence alone will decrease the house edge. Therefore, in terms of EV, there is a real difference between a no-hole-card game and a hole-card game.

I am not sure if we can use the same online calculator anymore.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
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Thanks for this post from:
Mukke
March 26th, 2023 at 7:52:16 AM permalink
Quote: aceside

Thank you for the link. I agree with what you said above but would like to add a little more on the difference between these two games.

Firstly, let us fix this particular rule, player only loses the original bet upon a dealer BJ. Secondly, let us look at the consequences of not taking a dealer hole card. Player cannot surrender to a dealer upcard of Ace anymore, and this consequence alone will increase the house edge. However, player can surrender to a dealer upcard of Ten even with the potential of getting a BJ later, and this consequence alone will decrease the house edge. Therefore, in terms of EV, there is a real difference between a no-hole-card game and a hole-card game.

I am not sure if we can use the same online calculator anymore.
link to original post



Yes, when dealer peeks at the hole card and sees that he doesn't have blackjack, that is information. And information = ΔEV
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Boony
Boony
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June 21st, 2023 at 2:11:55 AM permalink
Hi

I am from Singapore as well and a frequent player at MBS.

On the aspect on first rule on the "Only loose original bet if banker gets a blackjack" means that the house is playing with the "two cards rule ' the situation is there is no hole card for the dealer. the dealer only draws after the last finishes.

In a situation if the dealer gets a blackjack, they will only take the original bet and pushes the 'split bet or double down bet' back to the player.

That what it mean.

Hope this helps
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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June 21st, 2023 at 3:28:01 AM permalink
Assuming the rules are that you can only lose one original wager if the dealer gets Blackjack, then for practical purposes you should play the same strategy as if the Dealer had peeked. In most places using this rule, if you have split, then any bust hand is kept around; so this is worth checking. (c.f. Australian rules, OBO, BB+1, OBBO, etc. https://wizardofodds.com/games/australian-blackjack/ )

Technically, as has been said, you do get some information if the Dealer has peeked compared to this rule. This is very marginal and it might affect whether to hit some 16s (vs 10) or soft 18s (vs A). I only know of one instance, in a Blackjack variant, where the decision is so close, whether to Double might change. However I imagine in the real world the cards gone in the deck would tend to have a larger effect than whether the Dealer peeks or not.
ssho88
ssho88
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Thanks for this post from:
teliot
June 21st, 2023 at 9:20:57 AM permalink
I have the following questions :-

1) Do they use the One2SIX continuous shuffle machine ?

2) If player bet 1 unit, receives pair 88 vs dealer ACE and split to four hands with below final points:-
a) HAND 1 - Player final total 20 (8, 3, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
b) HAND 2 - Player Busted (8, 3, 2, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
c) HAND 3 - Player final total 17 (8, 2, 7) vs Dealer(A, T)
d) HAND 4 - Player Busted (8, 5, T) vs Dealer(A, T)

What is the player total net loss in this round ? Lose 3 units or 1 units ? Please note that player's 2nd and 4th hand busted before dealer reveals her "T".


The house edge should be -0.165%+-
Boony
Boony
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June 21st, 2023 at 9:25:37 AM permalink
Here's my reply:

1. Yes one2six auto shuffle
2. Lose 3 units. Hand 2 and hand 4 will be goneonce the hand is burst. Hand 1 is taken. Hand 3 is push back to player.

Hope this clarifies
ssho88
ssho88
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June 21st, 2023 at 9:36:40 AM permalink
Quote: Boony

Here's my reply:

1. Yes one2six auto shuffle
2. Lose 3 units. Hand 2 and hand 4 will be goneonce the hand is burst. Hand 1 is taken. Hand 3 is push back to player.

Hope this clarifies
link to original post




I thought total net loss is only 1 unit ? All busted hands will refund to player when dealer get BJ ? Please double check.

What if Hand 1 and Hand 3 busted, Hand 2 and Hand 4 not busted ? Lose 2 units ?
Boony
Boony
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June 21st, 2023 at 8:19:27 PM permalink
Any busted hand the dealer takes away first because he has no hole card.
ssho88
ssho88
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June 21st, 2023 at 9:05:46 PM permalink
Deleted
ssho88
ssho88
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June 21st, 2023 at 9:10:00 PM permalink
Quote: Boony

Any busted hand the dealer takes away first because he has no hole card.
link to original post



Ok.

What if Hand 1 and Hand 3 busted, Hand 2 and Hand 4 not busted ? Lose 2 units ? Please not that HAND 1 also happens to bust.
aceside
aceside
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June 22nd, 2023 at 8:00:21 AM permalink
Quote: ssho88

I have the following questions :-

1) Do they use the One2SIX continuous shuffle machine ?

2) If player bet 1 unit, receives pair 88 vs dealer ACE and split to four hands with below final points:-
a) HAND 1 - Player final total 20 (8, 3, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
b) HAND 2 - Player Busted (8, 3, 2, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
c) HAND 3 - Player final total 17 (8, 2, 7) vs Dealer(A, T)
d) HAND 4 - Player Busted (8, 5, T) vs Dealer(A, T)

What is the player total net loss in this round ? Lose 3 units or 1 units ? Please note that player's 2nd and 4th hand busted before dealer reveals her "T".


The house edge should be -0.165%+-
link to original post


I am not sure about this discussion here, but for a dealer no-hole-card game, a player should not split in the first place if the dealer shows an Ace upcard.
ssho88
ssho88
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June 22nd, 2023 at 8:23:00 AM permalink
For OBBO rules, player should split 88 vs A.
aceside
aceside
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June 22nd, 2023 at 8:26:38 AM permalink
This is the part I am confused about. Another related question is, should we split A,A vs. A in OBBO rules?
ssho88
ssho88
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June 22nd, 2023 at 8:36:45 AM permalink
Quote: aceside

This is the part I am confused about. Another related question is, should we split A,A vs. A in OBBO rules?
link to original post



Yes
aceside
aceside
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June 22nd, 2023 at 8:41:26 AM permalink
Thank you. I feel these are the correct splits, but still havenít seen the basic strategy card for this game. Let us just fix this to a 6-deck game using a continuous shuffle machine.
Bjkai21
Bjkai21
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July 6th, 2023 at 5:21:21 AM permalink
Lose 1unit. In Mbs the busted bet will remain there until dealer draws a card. If it is a BJ, it will be returned to player.

Quote: ssho88

I have the following questions :-

1) Do they use the One2SIX continuous shuffle machine ?

2) If player bet 1 unit, receives pair 88 vs dealer ACE and split to four hands with below final points:-
a) HAND 1 - Player final total 20 (8, 3, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
b) HAND 2 - Player Busted (8, 3, 2, 9) vs Dealer(A, T)
c) HAND 3 - Player final total 17 (8, 2, 7) vs Dealer(A, T)
d) HAND 4 - Player Busted (8, 5, T) vs Dealer(A, T)

What is the player total net loss in this round ? Lose 3 units or 1 units ? Please note that player's 2nd and 4th hand busted before dealer reveals her "T".


The house edge should be -0.165%+-
link to original post

infiltratioz
infiltratioz
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September 13th, 2023 at 9:33:06 PM permalink
Hi guys, with all the clarifications, can we take it that the BJ rules in Singapore is identical with the ones in Macau? If that's the case, is the Macau strategy chart (at wizard of macau) applicable to be used in Singapore's BJ context?

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