Dbeath
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Joined: Jan 6, 2022
January 6th, 2022 at 8:42:43 AM permalink
The strategy advises a medium raise on two pairs or better, but is that true for two pairs in the community cards, or does at least one pair need to be hidden?

Likewise, the large raise is advised for a pair of 3s or better, but that is a hidden pair, correct?

Thanks!
Mission146
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January 6th, 2022 at 8:47:23 AM permalink
Quote: Dbeath

The strategy advises a medium raise on two pairs or better, but is that true for two pairs in the community cards, or does at least one pair need to be hidden?

Likewise, the large raise is advised for a pair of 3s or better, but that is a hidden pair, correct?

Thanks!

The large raise can only be a hidden pair because it's based on your first two cards, so no other kind of pair is possible.

The medium raise is for any two pair, even if one of the pairs are on the board.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
odiousgambit
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January 6th, 2022 at 9:01:07 AM permalink
Quote: Dbeath

The strategy advises a medium raise on two pairs or better, but is that true for two pairs in the community cards, or does at least one pair need to be hidden?

Likewise, the large raise is advised for a pair of 3s or better, but that is a hidden pair, correct?

Thanks!

If you have a hidden pair, whether or not it's two pair total, bet it as soon as you can, the max, unless it is just one pair of deuces, which you don't bet at the first decision point. With two pair at the 2x decision point, bet them, no matter on the board or you have a hidden pair.

If the two pair is on the board, and you have *only* your kicker to consider at the last decision point, the mantra is two pair, take care. This would be because the two pair developed late on the board only. You have to count the outs on that Kicker decision. You seem to be a newbie at the game, so I'd recommend the Wizard's page on that.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 6th, 2022 at 9:52:42 AM permalink
I realize Im comparing apples to bananas here, but I run into this kind of situation all the time when Im dealing poker in the bar league.

Ill sometimes have to tell them, Two pair aint jack shit when one of them is on the board.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/  Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mission146
• Posts: 16832
Joined: May 15, 2012
January 6th, 2022 at 12:14:49 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

Quote: Dbeath

The strategy advises a medium raise on two pairs or better, but is that true for two pairs in the community cards, or does at least one pair need to be hidden?

Likewise, the large raise is advised for a pair of 3s or better, but that is a hidden pair, correct?

Thanks!

If you have a hidden pair, whether or not it's two pair total, bet it as soon as you can, the max, unless it is just one pair of deuces, which you don't bet at the first decision point. With two pair at the 2x decision point, bet them, no matter on the board or you have a hidden pair.

If the two pair is on the board, and you have *only* your kicker to consider at the last decision point, the mantra is two pair, take care. This would be because the two pair developed late on the board only. You have to count the outs on that Kicker decision. You seem to be a newbie at the game, so I'd recommend the Wizard's page on that.

https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/

I thought he was asking about two pair for the, "Medium Raise," which I took to mean post-flop, not final decision point.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
odiousgambit
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January 6th, 2022 at 1:15:19 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146
he was, but I thought I'd throw the rest of that in there. Missing the significance of a hidden pair kind of said to me, let's dwell on that
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
gordonm888
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January 6th, 2022 at 3:53:18 PM permalink
I think that OP didn't reralize that it is impossible to have two pair on the board for the post-flop decision (because there are only 3 cards on the board at that point in time.) Thus the referernce to having two pair contains the implication that one or both of the player's hole cards must be participating in the "two pair."
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
odiousgambit
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January 7th, 2022 at 6:51:16 AM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

I think that OP didn't reralize that it is impossible to have two pair on the board for the post-flop decision (because there are only 3 cards on the board at that point in time.) Thus the referernce to having two pair contains the implication that one or both of the player's hole cards must be participating in the "two pair."

I'm chagrined to note that this should have been obvious. A player can forget "bet 2 pair" and go with "bet any hidden pair" . In fact "bet 2 pair" I now think is bad to learn because if they are on the board, not using a card in your hand, and you can't beat the board with a straight or flush, it's not an automatic bet ... if you've learned "bet 2 pair" as a newbie, you might carry the rule over to the 1x decision point without having a hidden investment, by mistake.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Vegasrider
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Joined: Dec 23, 2017
January 7th, 2022 at 1:56:26 PM permalink
After playing this game on a consistent basis for 3 or 4 years, I can honestly say I have witnessed only one or 2 players who know how to play UTH. On the other hand, if you have a lot of experience playing in a live Hold Em poker game or even a tournament, the transition to becoming a good UTH player should not be difficult. Just like live play, I see so many bad players. Funny thing is, if you play live who likes to play every hand, which will generally mean you are a bad player, this is the best game to play. Its no fold em hold em. And yes I do have losing sessions.
Dbeath
• Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 6, 2022
January 7th, 2022 at 2:40:48 PM permalink
I too find that few people play basic strategy in this game and also Black Jack. It seems most prefer to trust their own feelings or experiences instead of the math which is correct in the long term.

My philosophy is we all lose in the long run, but trusting the proven strategy let's us enjoy playing the game longer by losing more gradually :)
ChicagoSkinny
• Posts: 19
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
July 14th, 2023 at 12:40:15 PM permalink
Not sure if there's a more recent thread to bump, but I was walking by the UTH game at the Rio today, and they have a tabletop sign now posted which reads 'Players may not show/discuss their cards while playing hand.'

First time I've ever seen this on the table as I've been here for several days. Really interesting to me as it seems impossible to police in most situations. Are they just trying to stop obvious things like "I've got the jack of diamonds and eight of diamonds"? If I'm sitting in 3rd position. It's not difficult to pick up my cards in a way that makes it easy for the players on either side of me to see them.

From a previous thread I remember reading, table talk doesn't help the player too much in this game (maybe a few hands here and there on the margins?). Has anyone else noticed casinos taking a more aggressive stance on table talk with UTH?
Dbeath
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Joined: Jan 6, 2022
July 14th, 2023 at 1:02:54 PM permalink
Never noticed that, but very interesting. I often show my cards to my wife or others, to get opinions. Would not want to have to stop that.
ChicagoSkinny
• Posts: 19
Joined: Feb 21, 2011
July 14th, 2023 at 2:07:54 PM permalink
I think the game has a lot of crossover appeal to regular hold'em players because hold'em itself is often a grind and not fun more often than not. I think they'd lose some players who'd just assume play a cash game instead if they can't blow off some steam and have a little fun at UTH.
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