cardshark
cardshark
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October 27th, 2010 at 7:48:52 AM permalink
I've experienced this, too. The dealer called the pit manager who had the dealer scoop up all the bets and push back to the players their doubles (2 players doubled their 11).

Someone at the table was upset that the "order of the cards" were messed up, so the pit manager told the dealer to shuffle.

I think the situation was dealt with fairly. Scoop up the original bets and offer to reshuffle.
cardshark
cardshark
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October 27th, 2010 at 7:54:38 AM permalink
Actually this happened to me a second time, too. I was playing Spanish 21 alone against the dealer, and in Spanish 21 a 21 wins automatically (even if the dealer has 21). But of course, a non-bj 21 loses to a bj.

Well one time, the dealer didn't check her hole card and I hit to 21, receiving an immediate payout. She flipped the hole card and showed an ace for bj. She let me keep my winnings and didn't call over the pit boss. I think that was the fair thing to do and hopefully the pit would have agreed.
Wizard
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Wizard 
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October 27th, 2010 at 8:33:28 AM permalink
I have to take the casino's side too. As Dan said, I don't think it counts as a misdeal, because the outcome of the hand wasn't altered.

As an example of a misdeal, last night I was playing blackjack at the Monte Carlo with one other player. As I am known to do, I was questioning the dealer about rules in other games, in this case Pai Gow Poker, which involves counting spots counter clockwise for purposes of player banking. This confused the dealer and she dealt the first two cards in the wrong order. So she gave me a 2, and my friend a 10. My friend alerted the dealer about it, and the supervisor told the dealer to reverse the cards. Then the dealer dealt the other initial cards properly. Then, the supervisor gave each of us an opportunity to opt out of the hand. That is a good example of a misdeal, and was handled appropriately.

By the way, my blackjack appendix 5 is useful for the option of opting out of hand.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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October 27th, 2010 at 9:07:44 AM permalink
The fairest and most common treatment of this situation is to count the dealer's hand as a blackjack, and to void any splits or double downs that the players made.

I have seen, in addition to the above, that the dealer's hand be treated as a normal 21 rather than a blackjack, which gives the players the chance to push; in this case they still get to nullify double downs or splits. A mild penalty to the house for not revealing the blackjack at the start of the hand.

In any case, it is not a "misdeal" because no cards were misdealt.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
benbakdoff
benbakdoff
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October 27th, 2010 at 1:08:41 PM permalink
Sometimes a hand gets played out only to find that the dealer has a blackjack. The dealer could have forgotten to check or the table could have an older reader with the green and red light, which were known for their malfunctions. Why would anyone think they should be compensated because the blackjack was turned up at the end of the hand instead of the beginning?

If the dealer has a blackjack and you don't then you lose. If the dealer pays your pushed blackjack, then you owe that money back. You don't always get called on it but you do owe it.

Most casinos will favor the player when a dealer makes a mistake such as hitting a hand after being waved off. Where I play the revealed card is the next card to be played. If it's a 2 and you're next to play you can double your hard 19. You're also allowed to opt out which works nicely when looking at 16 vs the dealer's 10. There are reasons to question a hand or a procedure but in this case it's really not a misdeal.

I would love to speak to the person who asked for a new shuffle because " the order of the cards" was messed up so that he or she could tell me exactly what the order is. I could use that information before placing my next bet.
Bluechip
Bluechip
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October 27th, 2010 at 2:57:51 PM permalink
I had never seen this happen until I encountered it twice in the same day on a trip to Tunica earlier this year. The dealer had an Ace up and checked for blackjack. Nothing there. My wife had a blackjack, declined insurance, and got paid. Dealer turns up the hole card and has a natural after all.

The first time, my wife was allowed to keep the payout. I can't remember what the PC did for the other players, but it was player friendly -- maybe nullifying the hand. In the second case, the PC took all original bets and made my wife return her blackjack payout (she got to keep her original bet).

The first instance was at Resorts; the second was at Bally's. Both casinos have the same owner, so there apparently isn't a company policy on how to handle the situation. But the ruling at Resorts was better for the players than the one at Resorts. It was a $5 table with nobody betting more than $15. Resorts paid a small price for lots of good will among those players.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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October 27th, 2010 at 3:07:58 PM permalink
I've seen different rules at different pits in a SINGLE casino.
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Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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October 27th, 2010 at 5:02:54 PM permalink
Has anyone come across the opposite situation where a dealer misreads their hand thinking it was a BJ, then reveals their hole card?
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soulhunt79
soulhunt79
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October 27th, 2010 at 5:13:24 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Has anyone come across the opposite situation where a dealer misreads their hand thinking it was a BJ, then reveals their hole card?



I saw this once. The dealer had 20. The pit boss had the table play out the hand. This included 2 people hitting on hard 19s.


To me this is not a misdeal. Misdeal to me means the dealer actually dealt the cards differently than what the rules of the game say is required. All the cards were good, just that everyone got to peak at the hole card.

I assume there is no standard as to how to deal with this situation. I would imagine some pit bosses would just have the hand scrapped, no wins or losses.
Wizard
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Wizard 
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October 27th, 2010 at 10:13:48 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Has anyone come across the opposite situation where a dealer misreads their hand thinking it was a BJ, then reveals their hole card?



I saw that too. The dealer had an ace up, thought the hole card was a 10 and flipped it up, and it was another ace. So the players played out their hands knowing the dealer had a soft 12, and we didn't have the option to opt out. The way it was handled was fine with me.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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