Similar Pass / Don't Pass Bet?

I am relatively new to playing craps and have been just betting the table minimum ($5) on the Pass Line and then waiting to see how it turns out. My cousin will bet $10 (two units) on the Don't Pass and then when the point is made he will make a place bet of $5 on the point number. He said this makes him win a smaller net amount if the shooter sevens out, but it also allows him to lose a smaller net amount if the shooter makes the point. All of this is assuming he makes it past the come out roll, of course.

We both are low rollers who play strictly for entertainment, and he claims his betting pattern seems to give him more actual playing time at the table for his $100 bankroll (he has never claimed he has won more money betting this way). But since our primary value is derived from the entertainment aspect, the more time at the table the better before our $100 is gone!

My question is this: Assuming you can make it past the come out roll, is there a similar "Pass Line bet combination" that will let you have just two bets that stay sitting on the table (your pass line bet + one other bet) that is essentially the same as the Don't Pass bet + the placed point bet? In other words, a combination of two bets that will allow you to win something whether the shooter makes his point or sevens out.

Thanks!

Quote: blount2000

I am relatively new to playing craps and have been just betting the table minimum ($5) on the Pass Line and then waiting to see how it turns out. My cousin will bet $10 (two units) on the Don't Pass and then when the point is made he will make a place bet of $5 on the point number. He said this makes him win a smaller net amount if the shooter sevens out, but it also allows him to lose a smaller net amount if the shooter makes the point. All of this is assuming he makes it past the come out roll, of course.

We both are low rollers who play strictly for entertainment, and he claims his betting pattern seems to give him more actual playing time at the table for his $100 bankroll (he has never claimed he has won more money betting this way). But since our primary value is derived from the entertainment aspect, the more time at the table the better before our $100 is gone!

My question is this: Assuming you can make it past the come out roll, is there a similar "Pass Line bet combination" that will let you have just two bets that stay sitting on the table (your pass line bet + one other bet) that is essentially the same as the Don't Pass bet + the placed point bet? In other words, a combination of two bets that will allow you to win something whether the shooter makes his point or sevens out.

Thanks!

To answer your question, no, there isn't. Your friend's method "works" because he's already ahead once a point is established; for instance, if the point is 10, he will win two out of three times. By placing the point, he actually DECREASES his advantage (by the amount of the house edge on that place bet). Yes, he will always win one bet or the other, but that's because he's actually sacrificing part of his advantage from having a working don't bet once the point is established.

Conversely, if you have a Pass Line bet, and a point is established, you are at a disadvantage. You will lose more often than you win. There is no way you can make up for this. The analogous move (to your friend's) would be to lay $X against the point, but that would just increase your expected loss.

In general, you CANNOT combine bets in craps (or any other negative expectation game) to produce a better outcome than what you get for a single bet. Your current playing method is optimal--you place a minimum bet on the Pass Line, then wait to see what happens. This will give you the most play for your bankroll, and any further bets (with the exception of an odds bet on your Pass Line bet) will just shorten your playing life.

Some people favor "time at table" over "winnings" or "risk of ruin" or anything else.

Hedging your bets so that you never really get hurt too much and you never really win big either simply means that you are standing there getting free drinks and some entertainment as the house edge keeps grinding you down. Must be a rough way to get free drinks.

I think its better that you simply make your bet and accept the consequences.

If you are on the PassLine and a point is established, add odds behind it. Or do a ComeBet (its really the exact same thing as a PassLine Bet). If you want to also place a number or two that is fine as well.

Your cousin who trying to straddle both sides: A DontPass bet with the Point placed means that he will not win big and is just grinding out a net bet of 5.00 on the Don'ts. Feel free to tell him to make up his mind! You win, you lose but atleast you have the courage to have made up your mind!

Thanks for the responses! It sounds like the "play the pass line" method is the way to go for this low roller.

You mentioned "risk of ruin", and I assume that means losing all of your money. That generates one more question from me. I went to the table with only $20 one time and wanted 4 red chips. The dealer told me that with such a small stack of chips to play I should get some of them as white $1 chips and do a "dollar crap check" with each come out roll, otherwise I could potentially lose all of my money real fast.

It kinda made sense at the time since I guess there could have been four craps in a row thrown and I would have been out of money just like that. I did the "dollar crap check" a few times at the beginning, although nobody rolled craps during the times I had that bet down.

Anyway, is what the dealer said true? Is it a good idea to do a dollar crap check if you have a very small bankroll and won't be able to handle much of a downswing of bad rolls at the beginning of your play? Or is it just a bad bet period?

No. The dealer was doing his job of getting you to place a bet that the house is most likely to win.


In the manner in which he explained it, it becomes a form of hedging a bet. Sure it pays $7, so you'll have a profit if it hits, the problem is, it doesn't hit enough to make it worth it. It has a house edge of 11.11%! Note that it IS a popular bet on a come-out roll. That doesn't mean it's a good bet.

As a general rule, particularly for a beginner, avoid the "junk in the middle".

Hard ways are something of an exception. Although they have a relatively high house edge too, at least those bets are not one-roll bets.

For more info: https://wizardofodds.com/craps

>No. The dealer was doing his job of getting you to place a bet that the house is most likely to win.
Most likely that is what was happening. You were being offered a "sucker bet" with a high house edge and being given a "scare story". The trouble is some dealers are simply ignorant and might actually simply be parroting what they've heard.
So I would agree that it was bad advice, but it might have simply been a misguided dealer.

>As a general rule, particularly for a beginner, avoid the "junk in the middle".
Hear!! Hear!!

Quote: blount2000

Thanks for the responses! It sounds like the "play the pass line" method is the way to go for this low roller.

You mentioned "risk of ruin", and I assume that means losing all of your money. That generates one more question from me. I went to the table with only $20 one time and wanted 4 red chips. The dealer told me that with such a small stack of chips to play I should get some of them as white $1 chips and do a "dollar crap check" with each come out roll, otherwise I could potentially lose all of my money real fast.

It kinda made sense at the time since I guess there could have been four craps in a row thrown and I would have been out of money just like that. I did the "dollar crap check" a few times at the beginning, although nobody rolled craps during the times I had that bet down.

Anyway, is what the dealer said true? Is it a good idea to do a dollar crap check if you have a very small bankroll and won't be able to handle much of a downswing of bad rolls at the beginning of your play? Or is it just a bad bet period?

You can't improve a bet by adding a bad bet to it. That's just simple math.

The flip side of the "make an any craps bet" "strategy" is that when you win the Pass Line bet, you've now only won $4. And betting any craps doesn't prevent you from losing the Pass Line bet in any case---the shooter could roll point, seven, and now you've lost $6 instead of $5.

I advise you to stop looking for combinations of bets that "improve" the situation--it can't be done. In general, "hedging" bets is a futile strategy--if it is your intention to minimize downswings, then that is most efficiently done by staying away from the tables altogether.