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focd
focd
Joined: Sep 15, 2010
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September 16th, 2010 at 5:28:36 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

An official rule prominently posted would be akin to that hotel that placed notices in all the rooms: Do not fish from your window. After those notices went up, all those drunken guests fished from their windows. If you put a notice up at a craps table about betting more odds than you are entitled to, there will then be a zillion such incidents.



Well, maybe the notice should not be placed conspicuously, but rather somewhere that can be found by the player if needed. These things do happen quite often and as you can see there is confusion as to what is "fair" or "proper". If the house has to worry that people are going to bet incorrectly, then they should implement some kind of commission/penalty when these things happen. That's why I don't think the analogy works so well in this situation. Fishing out the window is not a known problem casinos face, but overbetting can be. When you have these types of situations and it's not clear what should be done, then clear objective rules should be made available if requested.
focd
focd
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September 16th, 2010 at 5:35:50 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

You are supposed to have any amount which is overbet returned to you whether it wins or loses.


I'm just curious as to how you got this information.
I808
I808
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September 16th, 2010 at 10:15:59 PM permalink
This past weekend at the Palazzo someone had $10 on pass and $50 on the odds on a 5. The max is $40. Fever came home and they paid $70 for the pass and odds and another $14 for the access $10. So they treated it as a place bet.
Like they say in the marijuana industry "Sometimes you gotta roll your own!" (At the craps table that is)
focd
focd
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September 25th, 2010 at 6:58:47 PM permalink
For those who are interested, there is no official rule for the state of California as to what is done in those situations. Some places take your bets entirely while some do not count the excess and return it if you lose the bet.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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September 25th, 2010 at 7:03:52 PM permalink
At Seneca Niagara they return all bets over the max, unpaid, whether they won or lost. At least that was the answer they give.....
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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September 26th, 2010 at 5:10:22 AM permalink
Quote: focd

I wonder if there is an "official" law or rule as to how this is handled. I mean not just in terms of overbetting in craps like this situation but any other over betting situation. It's odd how they don't have some official set of rules made conspicuous for all players that are posted on casino websites.



You can bet (no pun intended) that there are "official rules" for most any casino, but they are rules made by the gaming commission, not the casino. Here in PA the gaming commission regulates odds bets (10xs max for now) and in places they tell how "breakage" is to be paid, casino or player. (ie: If you take $4 free odds on a 6/5 how do they pay $4.80? Does the casino eat the $.20 or does the player eat the $.80?)

But I see no reason to post them. As a player you are supposed to bet correctly. The dealer and boxman are supposed to check the bets. You are free to ask if you are not sure. Casinos give lessons. Dealers at dead tables in off hours will be more than happy to explain in detail. If you lost I am willing to guess that the entire bet would have been swept while the winner would be noticed as being over-the-limit. But the dealer is supposed to protect the casino, not the player. Caveat Emptor.

New players will always make mistakes, dealers should be as helpful as possible. But you cannot be upset if a dealer noticed after-the-fact. Craps dealers are watching 8 players and 95+ different possible bets, and making payouts while new bets are placed.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
boymimbo
boymimbo
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September 26th, 2010 at 6:59:15 AM permalink
Casino Niagara and Fallsview returns everything over their max odds. If you win, they pay you max odds and return the rest to you. If you lose, they take the max odds and return it to you.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Wizard
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Wizard 
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September 27th, 2010 at 1:42:57 PM permalink
I asked a former table Vegas game manager about both questions. Regarding over-betting the odds multiple in craps, he said most properties would pay the excess at place bet odds. Regarding betting over the table maximum, he said the excess wouldn't count, and would be refunded, win or lose.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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September 27th, 2010 at 1:59:46 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I asked a former table Vegas game manager about both questions. Regarding over-betting the odds multiple in craps, he said most properties would pay the excess at place bet odds. Regarding betting over the table maximum, he said the excess wouldn't count, and would be refunded, win or lose.



I remember being at one crap table where a person was betting $25 on the pass line, and taking $100 odds. However, the casino only allowed 2X odds. So he won his first pass line bet; the point was 9, and they paid him 3:2 on the first $50, then shoved aside the other $50 of his odds, telling him he could only bet double odds. He was a bit surprised that they didn't pay him at all (rather than pay him 7:5 on the other $50, as you mentioned is usually done), but he shrugged and put the chips back in his rack. About two hands later, he overbet his odds again: $25 pass line with $100 odds. I was about to say something to the guy, but the shooter immediately sevened out, and THE DEALER TOOK HIS ENTIRE BET. I gaped in astonishment; the player didn't say anything, apparently because he didn't really realize what had happened. I started to say something, when the boxman shot me a look that said in unmistakable terms that if I opened my mouth, I would be served as one of the dishes in tomorrow's lunch buffet. So I quickly left.

I'd say this was a pretty good way for the casino to make some extra bucks now and then: bet too much, and the extra amount only counts when you LOSE!

I won't say which casino this was, except that it was in a city whose name begins with the letters "L" and "V", and the casino has the same name as a major brand of orange juice.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
focd
focd
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September 27th, 2010 at 5:44:24 PM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I'd say this was a pretty good way for the casino to make some extra bucks now and then: bet too much, and the extra amount only counts when you LOSE!


I seriously think this is a way for the house to catch up because they don't make enough on craps. Add a few drinks here and there and try to be pushy by speeding up the game, and this adds up for the house. Even if they don't take the entire bet if you lose, they still make more money by making the excess bet as a pass line bet or place bet in the long run. I've overbet once and lost with the odds and the dealer returned the excess bet to me.

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