rsactuary
rsactuary 
Joined: Sep 6, 2014
  • Threads: 23
  • Posts: 1901
June 1st, 2016 at 10:44:21 AM permalink
Not sure I understand your question... if each stop has equal weight, the NJ rule is satisfied if you're dealing with a game with 32 reel stops.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 106
  • Posts: 5164
June 1st, 2016 at 11:58:27 AM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Is that the law in Nevada ? For New Jersey I could find no such law you are just limited to "Slot machines shall not offer a play with odds greater than 100 million to 1"


This is not the first time I have heard this "law" mentioned here. The closest I can find to this in either the Revised Statutes or the Gaming Regulations is, a slot machine can have a jackpot with odds of 100 million-1 or higher of hitting it, but if it does, then the odds of hitting it must appear on the machine. Pardon my Latin, but while there may be a de facto (i.e for all intents and purposes) limit of 100 million to 1, it is not de jure (i.e. a legal requirement).
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
  • Threads: 88
  • Posts: 6526
June 1st, 2016 at 12:21:34 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I thought it was that multi-line slots had reels where each symbol had an equal weight (otherwise different lines would have different EVs), whether electronic or mechanical. Then again, do any one-line-only electronic (i.e. video) slots even exist, other than computer/online emulators of existing mechanical machines?

Yes, every multi-line game I've ever done (or seen par sheets for) has equally-weighted stops for exactly that reason. But some early single line video slots had weighted reels. Silicon Gaming had several: Arabian Riches, Banana-Rama, Silver Belle Express, Buccaneer's Gold, etc.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 241
June 2nd, 2016 at 10:25:36 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

This is not the first time I have heard this "law" mentioned here. The closest I can find to this in either the Revised Statutes or the Gaming Regulations is, a slot machine can have a jackpot with odds of 100 million-1 or higher of hitting it, but if it does, then the odds of hitting it must appear on the machine. Pardon my Latin, but while there may be a de facto (i.e for all intents and purposes) limit of 100 million to 1, it is not de jure (i.e. a legal requirement).



NJ: N.J.A.C. 13:69E Gaming Equipment 13:69E-1.28A Standards for the approval of a slot machine game "(c)
Slot machines shall not offer a play with odds greater than 100 million to 1"

For Nevada I cannot find such a law. I would assume if it exists it would be in Regulation 14
Manufacturers, Distributors, Operators of Inter–Casino Linked Systems, Gaming Devices, New Games, Inter–Casino Linked Systems, On-Line Slot Metering Systems, Cashless Wagering Systems, Mobile Gaming Systems, Interactive Gaming Systems and Associated Equipment; Independent Testing Laboratories and I can't find it.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6272
June 2nd, 2016 at 11:57:22 PM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Quote: ThatDonGuy

This is not the first time I have heard this "law" mentioned here. The closest I can find to this in either the Revised Statutes or the Gaming Regulations is, a slot machine can have a jackpot with odds of 100 million-1 or higher of hitting it, but if it does, then the odds of hitting it must appear on the machine. Pardon my Latin, but while there may be a de facto (i.e for all intents and purposes) limit of 100 million to 1, it is not de jure (i.e. a legal requirement).



NJ: N.J.A.C. 13:69E Gaming Equipment 13:69E-1.28A Standards for the approval of a slot machine game "(c)
Slot machines shall not offer a play with odds greater than 100 million to 1"

For Nevada I cannot find such a law. I would assume if it exists it would be in Regulation 14
Manufacturers, Distributors, Operators of Inter–Casino Linked Systems, Gaming Devices, New Games, Inter–Casino Linked Systems, On-Line Slot Metering Systems, Cashless Wagering Systems, Mobile Gaming Systems, Interactive Gaming Systems and Associated Equipment; Independent Testing Laboratories and I can't find it.



I can't find it either now; maybe they ditched it. Nevada used to be a "de facto" 1 in 100 million. NJ and MS are 1 in 100M. Many Midwest riverboat states are 1 in 50M and GLI-11 recommends maxing out at 1 in 50M.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 106
  • Posts: 5164
June 3rd, 2016 at 7:43:55 AM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Quote: ThatDonGuy

This is not the first time I have heard this "law" mentioned here. The closest I can find to this in either the Revised Statutes or the Gaming Regulations is, a slot machine can have a jackpot with odds of 100 million-1 or higher of hitting it, but if it does, then the odds of hitting it must appear on the machine. Pardon my Latin, but while there may be a de facto (i.e for all intents and purposes) limit of 100 million to 1, it is not de jure (i.e. a legal requirement).


For Nevada I cannot find such a law. I would assume if it exists it would be in Regulation 14


It's in the separate Technical Standards for Gaming Devices and Associated Equipment, Standard 2.070:

"If the odds of hitting any advertised jackpot that is offered by a gaming device exceeds 100 million to one, the odds of the advertised jackpot must be prominently displayed on the award glass or video display."
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 152
  • Posts: 20083
June 3rd, 2016 at 9:24:34 AM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Yes, every multi-line game I've ever done (or seen par sheets for) has equally-weighted stops for exactly that reason. But some early single line video slots had weighted reels. Silicon Gaming had several: Arabian Riches, Banana-Rama, Silver Belle Express, Buccaneer's Gold, etc.

Odyssey multi game slot/VP machines were fairly innovative. IMO they were better than anything IGT had at the time. If I was going to purchase a slot machine I would probably go for one of them.

Did they get bought out by IGT?

Arizona Charlie's had a bank of .25 4play FPJW along with some drawings and other small promotions. That was a Fun play. Here's the machine in action including the infamous Vacation USA bonus slot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox8jk--dZaM
------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone remember Hot Reels multi-line slots you held symbols and drew. They were set over 100% and very fun as well. (they lacked a bonus round). Great for comps and mail, of course free play wasn't mainstream like it is nowadays. Usually you just got cash vouchers.

I'm not sure if Silicon made them or not. I can't find any information on them.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DiscreteMaths2
DiscreteMaths2
Joined: May 4, 2016
  • Threads: 13
  • Posts: 241
June 3rd, 2016 at 9:58:27 AM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: DiscreteMaths2

Quote: ThatDonGuy

This is not the first time I have heard this "law" mentioned here. The closest I can find to this in either the Revised Statutes or the Gaming Regulations is, a slot machine can have a jackpot with odds of 100 million-1 or higher of hitting it, but if it does, then the odds of hitting it must appear on the machine. Pardon my Latin, but while there may be a de facto (i.e for all intents and purposes) limit of 100 million to 1, it is not de jure (i.e. a legal requirement).


For Nevada I cannot find such a law. I would assume if it exists it would be in Regulation 14


It's in the separate Technical Standards for Gaming Devices and Associated Equipment, Standard 2.070:

"If the odds of hitting any advertised jackpot that is offered by a gaming device exceeds 100 million to one, the odds of the advertised jackpot must be prominently displayed on the award glass or video display."



Good catch. Their organization is strange I didn't think to look in that standard.
Assume the worst, believe no one, and make your move only when you are certain that you are unbeatable or have, at worst, exceptionally good odds in your favor.
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6272
June 3rd, 2016 at 8:59:01 PM permalink
Quote: DiscreteMaths2


Good catch. Their organization is strange I didn't think to look in that standard.



Neither did I, I knew I saw it somewhere before though. Thanks ThatDonGuy.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
  • Threads: 1404
  • Posts: 23737
June 3rd, 2016 at 11:02:18 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

The "obvious" answer is, a power of 2 is used as most RNGs generate a number in the range of a power of 2 (if there are 5 reels, a number from 0 to 230-1 is generated; this is five 6-bit (i.e. 0 to 31) numbers, one for each reel).



Correct. I picked 32 because it is a power of 2, which is also what random number generators are based on. Programming habit.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

  • Jump to: