July 17th, 2015 at 9:54:36 PM
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Was at a casino with electronic craps, offering 5x free odds. 5x pass plus free odds bet has a vig of .326%. The players club offers 0.25% cash back. A regular promotion offers 3x points, or .75%. So on those days, does the electronic craps offer a .424% advantage?

July 17th, 2015 at 11:13:47 PM
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I would be shocked if an electronic craps game gave you loyalty points on total handle including odds bets. In my experience (in Nevada) electronic craps tables from Aruze or Interblock almost always have a sign that says no points are awarded at all. Yes, if you were getting comped on total handle including odds, and you actually got the multipliers, you could definitely come out ahead on a promo day. If this is happening, don't expect it to happen for very long.

"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

July 18th, 2015 at 9:06:25 AM
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The game I saw has a giant pair of dice under a dome, and they're bounced around some by the platform underneath them. Betting is done electronically at a bank of machines surrounding the device. Another game next to it was strictly electronic, but with a common display, so all players were betting against the same outcome. I do know for a certainty that the points are awarded for the pass/come bets, but I don't know about the free odds bets.

If true, what kind of bankroll would be needed?

MathExtremist - back in the long long ago of high school, I was one of the top math students. Ronald Reagan ruled the White House, Ozzy Osbourne was the hot musician, and a young Joe Piscopo taught the nation how to laugh. It was a decade known as - the Eighties. Since then, I've had no use for math beyond +, -, *, and /. But I have the capability. Can u recommend a good book on gambling mathematics?

If true, what kind of bankroll would be needed?

MathExtremist - back in the long long ago of high school, I was one of the top math students. Ronald Reagan ruled the White House, Ozzy Osbourne was the hot musician, and a young Joe Piscopo taught the nation how to laugh. It was a decade known as - the Eighties. Since then, I've had no use for math beyond +, -, *, and /. But I have the capability. Can u recommend a good book on gambling mathematics?

July 18th, 2015 at 1:34:10 PM
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If the two devices looked like they were from the same company, it was probably Interblock hardware. Like I said, I'm shocked you're earning points on craps play but if you can, go milk it until they get wise.

For reading material, one gaming-specific book is "The Theory of Gambling and Statistical Logic" by Richard A. Epstein.

Also, dig into the history of probability theory. It's all based on degenerate gamblers from the 17th century.

There are tons of college-level probability texts out there. I have a few on my bookshelf. One of them -- because I'm a gaming-industry geek -- is "Finite Mathematics," the 1975 textbook by former Shuffle Master CEO (and former math professor) Mark Yoseloff. I'm not saying that one in particular is better or worse than any other; for that, I'd call your local college and ask the math department. There is also a ton of material on the Internet. Perhaps our own resident math professor will comment in this regard -- teliot, any other recommendations?

For reading material, one gaming-specific book is "The Theory of Gambling and Statistical Logic" by Richard A. Epstein.

Also, dig into the history of probability theory. It's all based on degenerate gamblers from the 17th century.

There are tons of college-level probability texts out there. I have a few on my bookshelf. One of them -- because I'm a gaming-industry geek -- is "Finite Mathematics," the 1975 textbook by former Shuffle Master CEO (and former math professor) Mark Yoseloff. I'm not saying that one in particular is better or worse than any other; for that, I'd call your local college and ask the math department. There is also a ton of material on the Internet. Perhaps our own resident math professor will comment in this regard -- teliot, any other recommendations?

"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice."
-- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

July 18th, 2015 at 2:19:39 PM
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Regarding my original question, are u certain I'm not making an error in my math? Again, the particulars. For non-slot play, 1 point earned for every 20$, 3x points every Mon and Tue for the summer, 100 points = $5 (paid in cash). up to 5x odds.

Regardless, I doubt I'll play. BJ offers better odds, and with the very small presumed advantage, I'm thinking there's a likelihood of large negative dips.

I also checked their VP machines. The very best paybacks were less than 99%, so even with the .75 payback, still a losing proposition. Although now I'm wondering. Do they count VP as slots? If so, the payback is twice as much, or 1.5%, making any VP better than 98.5 a winner.

Regardless, I doubt I'll play. BJ offers better odds, and with the very small presumed advantage, I'm thinking there's a likelihood of large negative dips.

I also checked their VP machines. The very best paybacks were less than 99%, so even with the .75 payback, still a losing proposition. Although now I'm wondering. Do they count VP as slots? If so, the payback is twice as much, or 1.5%, making any VP better than 98.5 a winner.

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