Advice on Craps

So I did my research on the Wizard of Odds website about the optimal strategy in craps for the smallest house edge possible.

I went to Bodog, put $200 in. For every roll, I would bet $5 on Don't Pass bet and when a number was established, no matter if it was 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, I would bet max odds. Since I was betting on Don't Pass, that amount varied depending on the number established. For 4 and 10, I had to put down $30... 5 and 9 were $22... 6 and 8 were $18.

I slowly but surely lost the $200 although there were periods of good runs. I then put in another $100, and this time I managed to turn it into $500. So in total I was up $200 at that point. I thought about withdrawing and calling it quits before it turned sour, but next morning I decided to see if it was all luck. I lost the $500, and lost another $300 in the next week trying to perfect the strategy. I honestly felt like Bodog Craps was clearly rigged - like I said, my bet was on the Don't Pass and had max odds... after a number was established, say it was a 4 or 10, you would think that the 7 would hit more often than not since it has a 16% chance of rolling compared to the 4 and 10 chance of around 8%. Yet at one point, the established number was hitting over and over and over again, round after round. Seemed like the 7 was not hitting whatsoever and when it did hit it was at the worst times (this started happening after I started winning. This is where I lost all the money).

Is this normal, to lose all this amount this quickly while using the strategy that the Wizard claims to be the best one in the casino? I understand there is still a house edge (although very small one I think around 0.3%) and it catches up to you, but is there a way in Craps to come out a winner? Are there people who actually do this for a living and consistently make money from it? And lastly, would you guys recommend I do the same thing next time except go on the Pass line instead of Don't Pass, and put down max odds after a number is established?

Thanks.

Quote: Kronos

<snip>I slowly but surely lost the $200 although there were periods of good runs.
I then put in another $100, and this time I managed to turn it into $500.

that is abouts better than 1 in 6

so you were down and then up and then down
that is what lots of variance in your bets will do

Quote: Kronos

Is this normal, to lose all this amount this quickly

looks like you played a lot to me
and were up and down having fun

Quote: Kronos

but is there a way in Craps to come out a winner?

yes, by good luck
i simulated 100,000 players playing with a $600 buy-in and laying the 3x odds and 1 out of 100k actually was up after 1 million bets
all the others busted out

sorry it was not you

Quote: Kronos

Are there people who actually do this for a living

no

Quote: Kronos

and consistently make money from it?

yes and consistently lose money too
btw, i trust no online casino, just me

Quote: Kronos

And lastly, would you guys recommend I do the same thing next time except go on the Pass line instead of Don't Pass, and put down max odds after a number is established?
Thanks.

no
just win more bets than you lose and have fun playing craps

thank you for sharing
Sally

Quote: Kronos

So I did my research on the Wizard of Odds website about the optimal strategy in craps for the smallest house edge possible.

Good start.

Quote:

I went to Bodog,

Ah. An online casino to play Craps. hmmmm.

Quote:

put $200 in. For every roll, I would bet $5 on Don't Pass bet and when a number was established, no matter if it was 4, 5, 6, 8, 9 or 10, I would bet max odds. Since I was betting on Don't Pass, that amount varied depending on the number established. For 4 and 10, I had to put down $30... 5 and 9 were $22... 6 and 8 were $18.

At a real casino they would screw you if you put up $22 for the 5/9 ... do they pay you in fractions? If they don't, this is where some of your money went. You may want to put up $21 instead so they can pay you $14 exactly, the proper amount. And it is good practice for a real casino [the only way Craps is ever fun to play IMO. Online? boo!]

Quote:

I [won some, lost some, wound up down] Is this normal, to lose all this amount this quickly while using the strategy that the Wizard claims to be the best one in the casino?

This question is so naive you are going to have to convince me you aren't 'just putting us on'. But just in case you aren't, and I guess it can be shocking how fast you can lose your bankroll at Craps, think about it. Have you ever gambled before? You're putting up over $20 each bet. In maybe 4 bets you could lose $100 ... sounds like you can lose it fast to me.

This is usually explained by saying the free odds increase the variance. This sounds like 3x odds, and yep, that'll do it.

Quote:

I understand there is still a house edge (although very small one I think around 0.3%) and it catches up to you, but is there a way in Craps to come out a winner?

I'm back to wondering if you are putting us on.

Quote:

Are there people who actually do this for a living and consistently make money from it?

No, not really, although it is possible to be ahead over long periods of time with good luck. There are ways to make a living gambling, if you are cut out for it [naivety is not a good sign] but playing Craps on the straight and narrow is not on the list.

Quote:

And lastly, would you guys recommend I do the same thing next time except go on the Pass line instead of Don't Pass, and put down max odds after a number is established?

If you are playing online the Don't Pass is just fine, usually, but sounds like you have a small bankroll? Craps is not a good game for small bankrolls; playing it rightside is slightly better for such. You could also drop your odds play to 1x or 2x, that will decrease the variance but keep the house edge below 1%.

Betting free odds to a bet amount you are not comfortable with is poster-child for the expression "the free odds do not help you win more money"

This sounds a lot like my experience at the Video Craps I have played at Saratoga. When I was the only one of the 12 available spots, I lost hard playing the dark side. When there were 7 or 8 people playing, I did much better playing the dark side, and the light side players were losing.

I will stick to the real thing.

Quote: mustangsally

yes, by good luck
i simulated 100,000 players playing with a $600 buy-in and laying the 3x odds and 1 out of 100k actually was up after 1 million bets
all the others busted out

Sally

Wow had I known this before, I would not have put a single dollar into it. Or I would have at least withdrawn the $500 I won!! 1 out of 100,000... That is just brutal.

Quote: odiousgambit

Good start.



Ah. An online casino to play Craps. hmmmm.



At a real casino they would screw you if you put up $22 for the 5/9 ... do they pay you in fractions? If they don't, this is where some of your money went. You may want to put up $21 instead so they can pay you $14 exactly, the proper amount. And it is good practice for a real casino [the only way Craps is ever fun to play IMO. Online? boo!]

Quote:

I [won some, lost some, wound up down] Is this normal, to lose all this amount this quickly while using the strategy that the Wizard claims to be the best one in the casino?

This question is so naive you are going to have to convince me you aren't 'just putting us on'. But just in case you aren't, and I guess it can be shocking how fast you can lose your bankroll at Craps, think about it. Have you ever gambled before? You're putting up over $20 each bet. In maybe 4 bets you could lose $100 ... sounds like you can lose it fast to me.

This is usually explained by saying the free odds increase the variance. This sounds like 3x odds, and yep, that'll do it.



I'm back to wondering if you are putting us on.



No, not really, although it is possible to be ahead over long periods of time with good luck. There are ways to make a living gambling, if you are cut out for it [naivety is not a good sign] but playing Craps on the straight and narrow is not on the list.



If you are playing online the Don't Pass is just fine, usually, but sounds like you have a small bankroll? Craps is not a good game for small bankrolls; playing it rightside is slightly better for such. You could also drop your odds play to 1x or 2x, that will decrease the variance but keep the house edge below 1%.

Betting free odds to a bet amount you are not comfortable with is poster-child for the expression "the free odds do not help you win more money"

Well I am not much of a gambler, you could call me a newbie. So if that's naive, then yes I am naive. I don't think much of casinos or any of its games, but thought I would give Craps a try after doing some reading and having a week off of work. Bad idea I guess...

Quote: mustangsally

btw, i trust no online casino, just me
Sally

And I do not blame you. I feel the exact same way, although they will all tell you they use a Random Number Generator (b/s) and that they get outside sources to ensure they are running fairly and legally (b/s). I feel like they forget to mention they have added algorithms to this RNG...

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Quote: SkittleCar1

This sounds a lot like my experience at the Video Craps I have played at Saratoga. When I was the only one of the 12 available spots, I lost hard playing the dark side. When there were 7 or 8 people playing, I did much better playing the dark side, and the light side players were losing.

I will stick to the real thing.

If that's the case why wouldn't you just wait til the machine is full of light side bettors and only play then?

Quote: rudeboyoi

If that's the case why wouldn't you just wait til the machine is full of light side bettors and only play then?

I made the mistake of getting there at 9am. LoL. Its a slot parlor, not much to do if you aren't into those things. Even the video poker, with full pay, still sucks you dry there. Its run by the NY Lottery. :-)