Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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June 23rd, 2014 at 5:59:55 PM permalink
Can anyone comment on what optimal strategy is supposed to be for the no limit holden video poker machine? I saw these machines at the aria casino. The machine is capable of bluffing and it does allow you to peek at the cards if u fold.
98Clubs
98Clubs
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June 23rd, 2014 at 6:46:32 PM permalink
When you mean "bluffing" do you mean like the Wiz's "One Card Poker" game, or do you think the bluffing is random?

This looks very interesting, if not a bit scary (Re: AI).
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
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June 23rd, 2014 at 7:14:32 PM permalink
Are you sure this isn't the LIMIT hold 'em head-up game? I suspect that it probably is. Aria has had several of them in a bank near the rail of the poker room for several years. More of them also exist at Bellagio (also near the rail of the poker room), there are several at Red Rock, and they used to exist at Caesars Palace, with a few also at Harrah's and Rio. I know they definitely have been pulled from Rio, and I think also from Harrah's. I'm not sure about Caesars Palace now.

If a NO-LIMIT version of that existed, this would create an opportunity for a simple math based short-stacking & rat-holing approach, eliminating all post-flop implied odds because you can buy-in very short, cash-out, and re-buy as a "new" player as much as you like. From investigation of this HU-LHE machine for a thread with some folks on a poker-oriented discussion site, I believe the machine plays very close to game theory optimal, and is a very difficult opponent by really "playing poker" with a conventional sized buy-in allowing for multi-street play. I confirmed to my own satisfaction statistically (after some attempts to look at it mathematically) that doing this short-buy on the limit HU machines produced very close to break-even results, but doing the same in a NLHE structure would be very different, and worth investigating whether it would be possibly profitable.
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 23rd, 2014 at 7:14:49 PM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

Can anyone comment on what optimal strategy is supposed to be for the no limit holden video poker machine?



uhhhh.... mixed-strategy nash equilibrium?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_strategy#Mixed_strategy
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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June 24th, 2014 at 3:37:32 AM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

Are you sure this isn't the LIMIT hold 'em head-up game?

I was thinking the same thing. I don't think they can make a (legal) good enough NL machine.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
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June 24th, 2014 at 8:18:02 AM permalink
Something I forgot to mention: credits & comps. In the discussion I was involved with of the LHE-HU machines on the Las Vegas poker player's site, the initial catalyst for the discussion was a member's conversation with someone at a poker table who attributed his Caesars Seven Stars card to his play on those machines. Apparently when they were fairly new the ones at the Caesars properties awarded Tier Credits at a generous rate. But this was lowered dramatically, and when I did my experiments with them they did still provide both Tier and Reward Credits in the Caesars Total Rewards system, but at such a minimal rate that I'd likely have died of hemorrhoids before ever renewing my Diamond card on them, and I stopped using my card in them altogether because I didn't want to screw myself by lowering my "average daily theoretical" with the tracked play on them. At the MGM properties, they provide no comps or credits of any kind whatsoever. At Red Rock, my recollection (from well over a year ago) is that play on them earned Station Casinos comp points and Status Credits in their Boarding Pass system at the same rate as more conventional video "poker" machines.
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
DRich
DRich
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June 24th, 2014 at 10:54:42 AM permalink
Yes, it is definitely Limit Poker.
Order from chaos
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
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June 24th, 2014 at 11:17:00 AM permalink
If I remember correctly it was indeed limit, but I noticed that the reraises increased progressively so it felt like no limit......so optimal strategy is to buy in with a low stack?
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 24th, 2014 at 12:25:39 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

If a NO-LIMIT version of that existed, this would create an opportunity for a simple math based short-stacking & rat-holing approach, eliminating all post-flop implied odds because you can buy-in very short, cash-out, and re-buy as a "new" player as much as you like. From investigation of this HU-LHE machine for a thread with some folks on a poker-oriented discussion site, I believe the machine plays very close to game theory optimal, and is a very difficult opponent by really "playing poker" with a conventional sized buy-in allowing for multi-street play. I confirmed to my own satisfaction statistically (after some attempts to look at it mathematically) that doing this short-buy on the limit HU machines produced very close to break-even results, but doing the same in a NLHE structure would be very different, and worth investigating whether it would be possibly profitable.



There is no mathematical advantage to being short-stacked in heads-up play. Heads-up, both stacks are essentially of equal size. Being short-stacked only confers a mathematical advantage in games with 3 or more players.
AxiomOfChoice
AxiomOfChoice
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June 24th, 2014 at 12:27:12 PM permalink
Quote: Asswhoopermcdaddy

If I remember correctly it was indeed limit, but I noticed that the reraises increased progressively so it felt like no limit......so optimal strategy is to buy in with a low stack?



The term "no limit" refers to being able to bet as much as you want on a single bet, not on the cap (or lack thereof) of the number of bets on a betting round.

If you don't know this, I'm guessing that poker is not your game, so I'd suggest staying away from these machines.

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