Basic strategy chart for late surrender with dealer no peek
Quote: gregr21I am wondering why differences exist in basic strategy charts for late surrender where the dealer does not peek for blackjack. All except for one chart that I have seen do not advise surrendering with a point total under eight versus a dealer show card of ace. However, the basic strategy chart on the Wizard of Odds web page does advise surrender on 5-7 against a dealer ace. Does anyone know which is correct and why?
No it doesn't. I assume you are looking at the H17 chart, where it advises you to surrender 15-17 (NOT 5-7) against an ace.
If the Wizard's strategy says that it's right, it's right. It makes sense for no hole card.
Can you actually find a game with this combination of rules?
Your original post compares late surrender, but your second post specifies "no peek/no hole card." Isn't that early surrender? Choose late surrender on the calculator and the 5-7 surrender goes away.Quote: gregr21Here is the link https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ I f you select one deck, surrender allowed with any dealer up card, and no peek/no hole card (European), then you will see this.
Quote: gregr21Thank you for your response. I will go with the Wizard on this. I do not know if such a game really does exist. I developed an app for learning the basic strategy and am expanding it to include European variations. I test all combinations. Thanks again.
I see.
Just remember that with an ace showing, no hole card, and you having two non-tens (as you must with a total of 5-7), the dealer makes a blackjack 16 times out of 49. It is going to skew the odds quite a bit (surrender is correct when your EV on the hand is less than -0.5 bets. Having almost 1/3 of the hands being automatic losers goes a long way towards getting the EV that low)
Edit: spelling
I'm guessing this gives early surrender figures.Quote: gregr21Here is the link https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/strategy/calculator/ I f you select one deck, surrender allowed with any dealer up card, and no peek/no hole card (European), then you will see this.
As to the original question you would probably Late Surrender a pair of 8s (as you wouldn't be splitting them) with the No-Peek rule - so yes there is a difference.
In practice I'm guessing they would leave the money on the cards and only give you half if it isn't a Blackjack - a similar thing has to happen in the UK with Hou$e Money if you bust (and hence lose your main bet) but if the dealer then makes a Blackjack you get the Hou$e Money bet back.
Quote: gregr21After some research, this is my current understanding: In European (no hole card) games, if the surrender option is offered it is in effect "early surrender" and this is what I think that the Wizard's web page calculator is showing. From my research it is a rare thing to find. Also, if the dealer has an ace, then you can typically only take insurance or alternately (if you have a natural) you are offered "even money". I found one source that said Australian blackjack (no hole card) may have late surrender as an option. In that case the entire bet is lost if the dealer has a blackjack. Otherwise only half the bet is lost. If anyone has more information about this I would greatly appreciate it. I would to thank all who have so graciously helped me to a better understanding.
I think you've mostly gotten it right, but I haven't played much overseas. Out of the two times I played ENHC, one casino offered surrender and it was early surrender but against 2-10 only. The other casino didn't offer surrender at all.
